Stanley Jack Plane Prices

[Andrew Yang]

What is a reasonable price for a vintage Jack plane in good condition? I've been looking at the usual sources for these, and it seems all over the place. It also seems like the Type 11 is "the one to get" but why? Does it make that much of a difference between the various types? I understand the lateral adjustment wasn't present on the earlier types. It seems ridiculous to me that a vintage Bedrock Jack would cost more than a brand new LN, but then again I don't put too much "value" into a tool being vintage.

[Sean Hughto]

11 doesn't mean jack ...

Any jack from around 1880 to 1940 will likely serve you well. The lateral adjust is nice. Tote shaping is easy enough to change with a rasp if you prefer the more oval earlier ones to blocky later ones. Bedrock is a completely unneccday cost, but sometimes common 5 bedrocks that are user grade can be stumbled upon for maybe $75. For a good clean say 1910 to 1933 user, I wouldn't pay more than $50, and $30 is more than enough in most cases. I've bought several on eBay in this range - all were fine. Indeed, some I bought for "parts" when they showed up turned out to be too good to part out! I just clean 'em up and give them to relatives and friends who express and interest. Happy hunting.

[Chris Griggs]

I 2nd Sean's response $30-$50. Type doesn't really matter. Even the post war (type 18 and 19) are perfectly good user planes. Also, some people like the war time planes (Type 17 I believe), because they generally have a noticeably heavier casting then other types. They also tend to be pretty reasonably priced since as they often have a plastic (instead of brass) depth adjuster, that turns some folks off. Check out brasscityrecords.com - they currently have a few no. 5's posted for under $50.

[Andrew Yang]

Thanks for the info. I'm guessing Jim Bode and Patrick Leach are on the high side here then? Just wary about the random eBay planes. I've bought from Walt before, but the last time I tried to buy a jack plane (and a pretty sweet looking 10" brace) they got lost in the world of sticky fingered postmen.

[David Weaver]

Post a want add for a "current user stanley" between type 10 and, say, 14 in the S&S (i guess that'll cost you $6).

I don't know much about leach, his prices have always been above what I'll pay, but I have never looked at Bode's prices and thought anything was worth close to what he asks (or quite often remotely close to half).

Sandy Moss (sydnas sloot) is a guy I would go to if you want something from a dealer. I have dealt with him several times, and he is accurate and more than fair on his pricing compared to most dealers.

If I had an extra 5, I'd sell it to you cheap.

I got two square sided Bedrocks (one needed a tote, the other one was redone) for $75 and $65, respectively, in the last two years (sold one already). Don't pay a lot for a bedrock 5 if you want one, you should be able to find one for less than $100, but at the same time, for using a jack, I've never noticed any advantage to having a bedrock. Actually, I don't know that I've ever noticed it with any bedrock. LN planes are a serious step up in quality from any of the stanley planes. If the proportion of bedrocks and bailey planes was 50/50, i don't think bedrocks would be so pricey.

A 5 would be at the bottom of my list to get from LN because it's not a hard plane to find and the improvements in their planes don't really do you tons of good on a plane that's not intended to do accurate or precise work.

[Andrew Yang]

Thanks Dave. I've been keeping tabs on most of the usual suspects in the used tool market, but just wasn't sure with the huge disparity what I was missing.

I'm aware of the general thoughts regarding No. 5 in the overall scheme of work which is why I haven't plopped down the cash for a LN or LV.

[Joel Goodman]

+1 on Sandy Moss -- I've always found him to be a good guy to deal with.

[Jim Koepke]

It seems ridiculous to me that a vintage Bedrock Jack would cost more than a brand new LN, but then again I don't put too much "value" into a tool being vintage.

I will sell you two at that price. You can sell one and keep the other and have the one for nothing.

jtk

Oops! I read that too quickly. I have a couple of Bailey style planes.

[David Weaver]

I should add that I've had good luck with walt, too, I don't want to leave walt out - but didn't mention him because he's already mentioned as sort of being out for now. I've bought tools from other guys, but I can't recall all of their names.

Clint Jones, who has been out of selling tools for a little bit is another fellow I have bought a lot from. He posts on woodnet sometimes as Leonard Bailey.

If there are things about a #5 that might make them a collector's piece (perfect correct wood, 99% japanning, dead mint matching iron, good decal on tote, etc) and worth what some of the higher price dealers charge (by chance, no guarantees that you aren't just paying more for no reason), they are things that won't help you as a user.

[Salem Ganzhorn]

I only own one Stanley bedrock but it is a #5. I have ~3 other #5's (and would be willing to part with one or two :)). And I must say I prefer the bedrock to my other Stanley #5's. It just seems to stay in the cut better. It could be my other #5's are lemons but I don't believe this is the case. I also have 2 LN's to compare them to (#4 and #7).

That being said I would still buy a cheap one if you need to save money somewhere. Save your money for a good jointer and smoother.

Oh... and I only paid ~40$ for my bedrock (it had previous users initials and a broken horn on the tote). So as others have said you don't need to pay a ton for them.

Warning: this advice may be worth less than you paid for it :).
Salem

[Andrew Pitonyak]

I just scored a #6 that is in amazing shape for $45 delivered on eBay. I have not tested it yet; I need to touch up the blade so that I can shave shave hair off my arm; even if poorly.

I thought that I was purchasing a #5, did not really want another #6. If I keep it, I will probably use an improved blade / chip breaker by IBC (Rob Cosman endorsed). I have extra blades from Hock for a #4 or #5, but not for a #6.

What advantage does the high end plane provide? Thicker blade and better chip-breaker for me means that it performs better especially on tougher to plane wood. You can always add an after-market blade / chip breaker if you see a need. I also found that my Lie Nielsen planes simply adjust more easily. On the old stanleys, some adjusted well, some not so much.

I purchased one of those new expensive "high quality" Stanley shoulder planes and adjustments are horrid and some parts arrived in need of repair (if I had checked it immediately rather than waiting a few months, I would have simply returned it). Stanley service was non-responsive when I contacted them and I did not want to simply send it in without chatting with them. People on the forum provided advice on how to repair the primary defect myself using files, a hacksaw, and a Dremel tool. Lie Nielsen service is highly responsive but the plane costs perhaps $50 to $100 more. You don't expect service on a 100 year old plane so that is not an issue. I purchased a used stanley because I wanted a knock around #5 and for $50 as opposed to $350 it was worth a test.

[Prashun Patel]

I've never looked at the 'types' of my Stanleys and all have turned out to be decent users. The prices on Craigs list tend to be a little better, since the market's a little less liquid. A new blade can make most plain janes work like champs.

[David Weaver]

I also found that my Lie Nielsen planes simply adjust more easily.

Aside from the fact that they're flat, won't move over time (most stanleys are probably done moving, though), are ductile cast and they already have the fat iron and chipbreaker...

... i think the adjuster is actually the nicest thing about them in use. It is finer and smoother than the stanley adjuster. Not that you can't do just fine with the stanley adjuster, the LN one is just better.

[Andrew Yang]

I've spent my fair share of $$ with LN and LV. I have a LN block/smoother/jointer and LV skew rabbet/router/scrub. My first (and only) vintage plane was a Stanley No. 50 plow plane which I purchased since there isn't a comparable modern alternative. The LV plow only cuts up to 3/8" despite being based on the Record 044. I've read and been told not to bother spending the coin on a jack plane from LN or LV since it's primarily responsible for roughing (unless it's your only plane). So that's what brought me to scouring the world of "classifieds" for a jack. I'm a bit OCD at times, so it makes it a bit tough to pick up a complete "user" plane which often seems language for any or all of "busted tote, lots of rust, maybe some pitting and stumpy blade."

Given the price, and potentially the effort required to get one up and running I feel like I might just be pushed into buying a new one... I was pretty soured by the effort required to get a vintage 1 1/2" Stanley No. 720 chisel up to snuff. The things people use chisels for...

[Sean Hughto]

I think the "primarily for roughing" thing is not really accurate. A Stanley 5 is not much different than a 4 or a 7 or a 3 etc. It can be tuned just as much, and it can do just as fine work. It will smooth and it will joint. The place where LN stuff really shines in my experience is in smoothing difficult woods - high angle frogs and high manufacturing tolerances that allow for fine mouths and fine adjustments. Vintage Stanley will do 95% of routine tasks every bit as well as LN's. And that's true for any number plane. LN tolerances, thick blade, and fine adjustment etc. make it wonderful, but not necessary most of the time.

[Jim Koepke]

What advantage does the high end plane provide? Thicker blade and better chip-breaker for me means that it performs better especially on tougher to plane wood.

If one thinks this is the only advantage, then one has not been paying attention.

To make one thing clear, most of my planes are old Stanley/Bailey's that have been tuned into doing their jobs quite well, thank you. I have owned a few Bedrocks and can say there is an improvement in function due to the way the base and frog mate.

I can not say much about the Veritas planes since I do not own any. I do know that many of them have set screws for blade and mouth positioning. That is innovation beyond the attention to the other details that make so many find their planes a joy to use.

I do own 3 Lie-Nielsen planes. Beyond the "thicker blade and chip breaker" is the improved metallurgy, precision machining and improvements in design.

BTW, the absolute lack of backlash on the LN bench plane drives me nuts sometime when adjusting the blade. My mind has become so used to working with backlash, it is difficult to work without it.

The mating of the frog and base is improved by precision machining. FWW covers this a little in their recent article evaluating planes and explains why this beats the WoodRiver V3 for frog adjustment.

The large mating area between frog and base help to dampen chatter when planing. This may work best in a production situation. There are various ways to "coax" a Bailey into working just as well as a Bedrock in most cases.

My old planes can require a lot of patience. Hopefully, one day I may receive some patience if I obtain their age. If it is frustrating to turn your adjuster knob a full turn or even two or three full turns, then an old well used Stanley is not the tool for you. (This is what people are referring to when they say adjuster backlash.) Especially when the "sweet spot" of planing is likely to be less than a quarter turn of the adjuster. With the threading on the Stanley adjusters being 24 tpi, a quarter turn will move the blade ≈ .010". If my geometry is working, at 45° that is about 0-.007" difference in the cutting depth of the blade in a quarter turn.

If the LN or LV have a finer thread on their adjusters, that would be helpful.

Having the maker stand behind the flatness of the sole is something worth considering. Besides that, the weight of the plane will be more than the old Stanley planes. The weight does help to keep planes in the cut. If it did not, the aluminum planes that Stanley made would have been much more popular. That seems like a good example of tool designers not being the ones using the tools they made.

Yes, a better and heavier blade may improve an old Bailey, but it will not turn a $20 garage sale find into a modern marvel. Further, when you do the math, you do not have a $20 modern marvel, you have $20 + the cost of the blade and chip breaker old plane that may still need a bit more work.

jtk

[john brenton]

Agreed. I've been seeing that "jack is a junker for hogging" written here a lot, and have just not felt like starting a discussion on it, so I'm glad you said it. With the size of most of the lumber I use, I could easily get by with only a good jack for roughing, trying and smoothing.

It's funny to read, because while some people say "don't spend money on a good jack", that is precisely what I'd like to spend some real money on. Perhaps a LN 5 or 5 1/2 for my birthday? probably not, but maybe one day....



I think the "primarily for roughing" thing is not really accurate. A Stanley 5 is not much different than a 4 or a 7 or a 3 etc. It can be tuned just as much, and it can do just as fine work. It will smooth and it will joint. The place where LN stuff really shines in my experience is in smoothing difficult woods - high angle frogs and high manufacturing tolerances that allow for fine mouths and fine adjustments. Vintage Stanley will do 95% of routine tasks every bit as well as LN's. And that's true for any number plane. LN tolerances, thick blade, and fine adjustment etc. make it wonderful, but not necessary most of the time.

[Jim Koepke]

+1 on Sean an John about the #5 being much more than a roughing plane.

I have one set up that can put a high shine on a piece of wood just as well as any smoother in my shop.

Another is set to take a thicker cut to hog a bit of wood when needed, but most of the time it is my short jointer for smaller pieces of wood.

There is a type 17 - #5 in my shop that is sometimes used for shooting but is also used as a general purpose plane outside the shop.

Then there is the one with a corrugated base that just hangs around in case it is needed.

Someday if the need is felt, one of them may get coaxed into being a scrub plane.

jtk

[john brenton]

Jim makes a good point for cheaper planes. I have two traditional rear toted wooden jacks, and one german horned jack, each one set with a different shaped iron, and set at a different depth. All of them together cost me about 1/10th of the cost of a new "premium" plane. To me it's an advantage not to have to change the iron, or adjust the depth...I just reach for a different plane. It sounds like one of those advantages that's really a "non-advantage", but if you're working on a whole bunch of lumber it makes a difference.

Or you could just buy a jointer/planer, and you wouldn't need all that.


+1 on Sean an John about the #5 being much more than a roughing plane.

I have one set up that can put a high shine on a piece of wood just as well as any smoother in my shop.

Another is set to take a thicker cut to hog a bit of wood when needed, but most of the time it is my short jointer for smaller pieces of wood.

There is a type 17 - #5 in my shop that is sometimes used for shooting but is also used as a general purpose plane outside the shop.

Then there is the one with a corrugated base that just hangs around in case it is needed.

Someday if the need is felt, one of them may get coaxed into being a scrub plane.

jtk

[Johnny Kleso]

5 1/2 is Charleworth students recommended #1 plane.. Half smoother half jack plane..

I just dont have a need for expensive bench planes I do love the much improved blades though..

[john brenton]

A fellow creeker here in Savannah told me about the Charlesworth's "Super Smoother" theory on the 5 1/2". I went over his house and gave his LN 5 1/2" a test spin, and it was sweeeeeeeeeeeeeet.


5 1/2 is Charleworth students recommended #1 plane.. Half smoother half jack plane..

I just dont have a need for expensive bench planes I do love the much improved blades though..

[Andrew Yang]

since it's primarily responsible for roughing (unless it's your only plane)

Far be it from me to pigeon hole a jack plane. It's name implies that it is a very (the most?) versatile plane. In my case, since I have a dedicated smoother and jointer, it would be limited in use to roughing. I sat through Deneb's demonstration of using a jack plane to bring a board from rough to smooth, with some blade and setting changes, so I'm aware of the versatility. I wasn't particularly inclined to get into the discussion regarding the list of potential applications of the No. 5, but it seems the thread has sprouted a 2nd life based on a portion of a statement.

[Andrew Yang]

The Fore and Jack Planes
Welcome to the weird middle ground of plane sizes, where any tool can do any job and trade-offs abound. Historically, this size plane was used for roughing. You’d put a heavily cambered iron in the tool, open up the mouth all the way and take off huge ribbons of wood. In this day and age of inexpensive and accurate machinery, few people use this size tool in this historical manner. Let’s take a look.

Understanding Bench Planes (http://www.popularwoodworking.com/tools/understanding_bench_planes/2)

Lastly, here's what Chris Schwarz writes about Jack Planes.

Sadly, this was all to say I understand, but also understand what I wrote and why I'm looking for a cheap'ish, vintage Stanley instead of buying a new LN or LV. I (like many of us) have a list of tools that we like/need/want to purchase, and I would rather put my hard earned dollars toward tools that deliver added benefit for the dollars.

[Sean Hughto]

To be clear, I wasn't intending to correct you. I always assume that the thread is being read by lots of folks. I have also seen the idea of a jack as typically a rough use plane become sort of a meme. All I was trying to tell anyone who might be reading along was that there is nothing inherent in a jack's parts or design etc. that mean it has to be so. One can choose how to use any size bench plane and tune it accordingly. It's a rather obvious point I guess, but just in case anyone thought jack size is only capable of rough ...

[Andrew Yang]

It's all good, except I still don't have one.

[john brenton]

There are some pretty sweet $30-50 jacks on ebay right now.


It's all good, except I still don't have one.

[Andrew Yang]

Rest assured. Eyes are on the jacks, where ever they might be.

[Jim Belair]

It's all good, except I still don't have one.

Walt has a 5C Type 16 in excellent shape for $45 showing available on his site right now. Not sure why "he's out"????

Jim B

[Mike Brady]

Sean's got it right. I would ditto everything he said.You may develop a liking for a certain series of planes, and that is fine. Don't let someone else's preferences become yours, necessarily. Read everything here and learn. Dealers are great and serve a purpose in the hobby, but you don't need to pay a dealer 2X to buy a #5 user plane. If money isn't a problem, then by all means help to keep those nice people in business. They do tend to corner the supply of nicer tools, and many of those tools go into collections rather than workshops.

[Jim Koepke]

5 1/2 is Charleworth students recommended #1 plane.. Half smoother half jack plane..


A fellow creeker here in Savannah told me about the Charlesworth's "Super Smoother" theory on the 5 1/2". I went over his house and gave his LN 5 1/2" a test spin, and it was sweeeeeeeeeeeeeet.

I do like my #5-1/2, but I end up grabbing one of my #6s more often. Maybe it is just because they are on an easier shelf to reach.

Besides, my #5-1/2 is one of the old 2-1/4" blade sizes. There are more spare blades to change quickly of the #6 size.

jtk

[Jim Koepke]

I wasn't particularly inclined to get into the discussion regarding the list of potential applications of the No. 5, but it seems the thread has sprouted a 2nd life based on a portion of a statement.

The potential applications are what makes the #5 a desirable plane to have. Fortunately for those of us who want them, they are possibly the most popular size plane available only rivaled by the #4. This helps to keep the old ones down in price a bit.

jtk