Another GCSS (guided circular saw system) contender?

[Frank Pellow]

Check out http://www.mafell.com/produkte/prod_saegen_pss3100_i.html

It looks interesting, but Mafell don't publish the price of the system on their WEB site (not even on their German web site).

It would be good to hear from anyone with more details and/or anyone who has used the system.

[Christian Aufreiter]

Hi Frank,

I haven't used this system and didn't pay too much attention to it a shows. It seems to be great but it's quite different from what we use to understand by "GCSS" because it has some kind of "built-in power feeder" (I don't know how to express it properly). While it would be nice it's too expensive for my kind of usage.
In my German Mafell 2004 catalogue the PSS 3100 SE costs EUR 1485 (without VAT) and EUR 1722 (with 16 % VAT). The PSS 300 costs EUR 1365 (without VAT) and EUR 1583 (with 16 % VAT). I don't have an Austrian Mafell catalogue but the saws would be more expensive here due to 20 % VAT.
Another great (and way cheaper) Mafell GCSS is the KSS 400 (http://www.mafell.de/englisch/produkte/prod_saegen_kss330_i.html). I hope Mafell's explanation is clear otherwise my comments that I posted on the Festool Owners Group might help.

Regards,

Christian

[Frank Pellow]

Thanks Christian. I see that Mafell has the KSS 330 (simialr to the KSS 400) is on sale for $587.50.

[Joseph N. Myers]

Frank (& Christian),

From the 2005 Workbench Buyer's Guide, Tools & Accessories, page 78 lists the Mafell KSS 400, Crosscutting System at $884, 120v/15amps. As Christian noted, this model does look/act more like the GCSS that we are used to.

"This unique crosscutting system consists of a guide track that's connected to a circular saw. This single-unit design ensures accuracy. An adjustable fence and angle stop allows miter angles up to 60 degrees. The saw can also be detached from the guide".

They also have a Portable Table Saw that goes for $2,578, 71 lbs, but from the looks of it, only does crosscuts, i.e., no place for a fence. Even with a fence, the width looks like 18", depth 28". It does have collapsing legs, variable speed control and a combination splitter/dust hood.

From the looks of it, I wouldn't think Mafell will go over very big in the States.

Regards, Joe

[Jim Fancher]

You could outfit a home shop for the price of that one portable table saw. It seems that all of their prices are like that.

[Christian Aufreiter]

Hi folks

the KSS 330 is the KSS 400’s predecessor and no longer available (here).
As far as I know, Mafell has an excellent reputation here, especially among carpenters. The "table saw" you are talking about is certainly one of the Erikas. This saw was primarily designed for jobsite work such as laying parquet floors etc. I don't know how to explain the pull push feature of these saws so please check out this animation (http://www.festool.com.au/internet/images/bilder/flash/cs70_gb.swf). It doesn't show a Mafell but a Festool pull push saw.
Note: Festool pull push saws are NOT available in the US because they don't have the UL approval (yet).
Mafell offers a wide range of accessories but even with the basic stuff for cross cutting and ripping. But as I mentioned it was not designed to replace a Euro-style pro table saw.

@ Jim: That's true in the US, not here, at least not if you buy top-quality items. I paid about EUR 1000 for a GCSS and a router.

Regards,

Christian

[Greg Mann]

You could outfit a home shop for the price of that one portable table saw. It seems that all of their prices are like that.
Jim,

I wish I coulds outfit a home shop for that amount, but we are in agreement that it would almost certainly not be money well spent in light of other options available to us.

Greg

[Jeff Sudmeier]

Wow! Yeah it is pricey! I don't see the advantage over other sytems like the Eureka Smart System, but I have not used either.

[Christian Aufreiter]

Wow! Yeah it is pricey! I don't see the advantage over other sytems like the Eureka Smart System, but I have not used either.

If you're talking about the Mafell PSSs there's at least one advantage:
It's not necessary (it's even impossible) to push the saw through the wood because this is done automatically! And the dust collection seems to be excellent too.

Christian

[Kevin Halliburton]

They certainly have a few circular saws with several clear advantages to most other saws available in the USA.

Full US product line: http://www.mafell.com/produkte/prod_saegen_fr.htm

I would not want to be locked to a guide for every cut with the KS 400. I like the KSP 40 flexible guide for certain applications, and I like the automatic feed feature of the PSS 3100 SE for automated production applications, but I think the ultimate would be to put a KSP 65F on an EZ Guide.

Things I like about that saw:
1) 2 1/2" + depth of cut with an EZ Base on it
2) dust collection
3) more power!!!
4) riving knife
5) 0-60 deg. bevel capacity
6) Still light enough to use with one hand
7) the shoe on the blade side can be fully removed or used as a fence

Combine all of that with the strengths of the EZ Smart Guide system and you would have a really nice setup.

[Christian Aufreiter]

They certainly have a few circular saws with several clear advantages to most other saws available in the USA.

Full US product line: http://www.mafell.com/produkte/prod_saegen_fr.htm

I would not want to be locked to a guide for every cut with the KS 400. I like the KSP 40 flexible guide for certain applications, and I like the automatic feed feature of the PSS 3100 SE for automated production applications, but I think the ultimate would be to put a KSP 65F on an EZ Guide.

I'm not sure if I understood you correctly. Of course, the KSS 400 circular saw can be unlocked from the short guide rail. Then, it can be used "free-hand", in combination with a parallel fence or along with a common guide rail (AFAIK available up to a length of 6 m).

BTW, I'm told that a new Mafell guide rail system will be introduced soon.

Regards,

Christian

[Jeff Horton]

I have a question. What is the fasination with these types of saws? I really don't understand except in a commercial operation why anyone would want to spend that kind of money. (I used to think I was a tool junkie but I am learning I am very consertative) I built a guide for my trust DeWalt saw that works excellent and I built it out of scraps, for free.

I just line the edge up where I want to cut, clamp it down and run the saw throught the guide. Saved myself several hundred bucks and didn't even realize it.

While they are impressive I just understand spending that kind of money. :confused:
Maybe I just don't understand the 'new' economy based on spend everything you make. :p

[Don Baer]

Jeff,
I don't use any of these systems and probubly never will either. Those who do use then claim they are faster, easier to set up and more accurate then the types of guides that you and I use. I personaly am not in that much of a hurry when I do WW since for me it is a hobby not my occupation so I think the accuracy part is a mute point since I take my time and insure my setup is correct.

I'd rather spend my $$$$ buying material to cut....:D

[Walt Pater]

Thanks, Frank. Just as I thought I had found the last Festool 65 system...

[Ian Barley]

I have a question. What is the fasination with these types of saws?...

Jeff

I can't speak for others but I make my living with tools and a tool that costs £250 has paid for itself when it has saved me about 8 hours. My Festool and guide system did that in the first week I owned it. The next 8 hours is money in my pocket. It does what it is meant to do quickly and repeatably. For me the major feature is the fact that at the end of the cut the blade is safely tucked away in the body of the saw. The fact that the guide system is as accurate as it is with so little effort is just a bonus.

[Burt Waddell]

Kevin,

I think you are right. I've looked at a lot of guided systems and a most of them offer some nice features. EZ Smart is the only one that I have seen that offers repeatability.

Burt

[Kevin Halliburton]

I'm not sure if I understood you correctly. Of course, the KSS 400 circular saw can be unlocked from the short guide rail. Then, it can be used "free-hand", in combination with a parallel fence or along with a common guide rail (AFAIK available up to a length of 6 m).

BTW, I'm told that a new Mafell guide rail system will be introduced soon.

Regards,

Christian

Thanks Christian,
I read, "Machine and guide track are firmly connected"
and completely missed, "Quick-release catch facilitates separation of machine and guide track." I don't know how long Mafell has been making these saws but this is my first exposure to them. I posted the comment in a thread several days ago that we might even see an automated guide system for production work one of these days. I had no idea Mafell was already there. (See, I told you so! :D )

I made a wish list of all the things I want on a saw for my guide system not too long ago. Looks like Mafell may have swiped most of my list before I even wrote it. One of these days someone will design a guard and dust collection shroud for one of these saws that will allow me to safely use a dado blade with my guide system. If it's remotely affordable, I'll cut a check the day I see it.

I like the Mafell guides. The flexible version might be nice on curved work like boat hulls or curved cabinetry in particular. That may be the one guide trick the EZ Smart isn't able to do, and for good reason. The rigidity of the EZ Smart allows it to serve as the foundation that everything else in my woodworking system attaches to. It's those attachments that set the EZ Smart apart, the clamping system, square and repeater arms in particular.

I think Europeans have seen the advantages of guide systems for a while. As guide system use increases in the USA, this type of saw will probably get a little more affordable. I hear rumors that the EZ Smart developers are even working on a few power tools. I'm looking forward to seeing where this developing technology takes us in the next few years.

[tod evans]

mafell has been in business making speciality tools as long as i can remember and offers a high quality product.....02 tod

[Paul B. Cresti]

Thanks Christian,

I think Europeans have seen the advantages of guide systems for a while. As guide system use increases in the USA, this type of saw will probably get a little more affordable. I hear rumors that the EZ Smart developers are even working on a few power tools. I'm looking forward to seeing where this developing technology takes us in the next few years.

Do notice that these "Europeans" also demonstrate every one of these systems, in their marketing photos, in a jobsite scenario......never in a shop type atmosphere, at least from what I have seen. Job site vs shop...two very different atmospheres with different needs.