How tall is your workbench?

[Mark ten Haaf]

I'm building my bench top right now, and I think I've made all of my major design decisions, save the height.
Now, "The Schwarz" says that the ideal height would be where your primary knuckles of your fingers would graze the bench, with your arm hanging straight down. This seems incredibly low to me. His argument is that this allows allows you to exert down force from the shoulders when hand planing.
It seems to me that I would want to be able to exert more force along the cut, as the plane will naturally bite downwards into the stock with little help from me.
I don't have a problem using my arms instead of my back/shoulders (I've built up my arm strength through years of working with concrete), and I figure that a bench that is only 28" tall (yes, I'm a shortie :-) ) would take its toll on my back from all the stooping.
Also, I rely on my eye when edge jointing, and I wouldn't want to get down on all fours to give it an eyeball after every pass!
The bench that I use right now is a steel *gasp* welding table that is 35" tall, and I feel pretty good on it; I would like it to be a couple inches shorter. Maybe I'll lay some 2" styrofoam down on the floor and see how the height adjustment works.

I turn to you, esteemed panel of experts - what are your preferences?
Thank you in advance, ladies and gentlemen.

[Jon van der Linden]

We're probably close to the same height. For planing the lower bench height is absolutely correct. While you certainly can plane on a higher bench (I do) it's not nearly as comfortable, and puts stress on your shoulder, not your arms. For fine work it's nice to have a higher bench, dovetailing, carving, etc. are just a few things where a higher bench is good.

Bottom line is that it's a compromise and you can't get around that unless you have more than one bench!

[Don Dorn]

I'm only 5'10 - and my bench is 36" high which brings it roughly to my wrist. It sees about 90% or greater use in hand tools. I disregarded the advise to go shorter because my last one was and planing was harder on my back. I figured if I needed to go shorter, it would be easy enough to do - and I never have.

Even though there isn't really a need to build another - if I did, it would be just as high as the one I have and will never go shorter. If there was ever a need for it, I'll stand on a platform if necessary.

[john davey]

I'm 5'7" and like my bench at 29". I am going to build a Moxon vise Chris Schwarz posted about here:
http://www.popularwoodworking.com/techniques/joinery/need-a-moxon-double-screw-vise
to handle joinery that requires a higher working surface.

[Tom Vanzant]

My bench is 33 1/4" high and has sled feet. I'm 5'-10 but have short legs, so my comfortable planing height is 31". I don't want to rebuild the base, so I pull up a 2 1/4" thick platform for planing chores. Rubber shelf-liner keeps the platform in place on the floor.

[Brian Vaughn]

Might want to also ask how tall the person is doing the work. ;) For planing, I do like the lower bench, that is until my back starts acting up. Maybe 30-32" or so (Measuring off my planing stance while at work) However for hand work (dovetails, chiseling) I prefer my work to be high, closer to 36-37" top of the bench (If not a little more, depending on what I'm doing.) Therefore I have a heavy solid low bench, and clamp-on risers for other work.

I'm 6'1 in shop boots, btw.

[Mike Olson]

my current bench was built to be level with my wrist which was good for planing but was Murder on my back for any bench chisel, dovetail, or most any cutting work. Most of my projects are done with rough lumber so I need the low bench. Hopefully I'll have room soon for a higher smaller bench.

[Pat Barry]

Mine is 36" high. I like it to be higher so I can easily work on it without bending over and straining my back. I think the higher level also makes it a bit easier to get to eye level for measuring and marking. You get more leverage when you have the work closer to your shoulder - ie when planing, because your elbow will be bent at a proper angle. Too low is bad ergonomically.

[john brenton]

Is this the first time you've made all your major decisions? I know I've made my major decisions several times and am still using a drafting table with a slap of laminated pine that I clamp to it.

It's wrist high, and I like it for joinery but not for planing. I use wood planes too so that makes it that much more uncomfortable. I just set stand on maybe two pieces of plywood and it makes all the difference in the world. Even one 3/4" piece makes a huge difference. It's weird how that little bit affects comfort and leverage so much.


I'm building my bench top right now, and I think I've made all of my major design decisions, save the height.
I turn to you, esteemed panel of experts - what are your preferences?
Thank you in advance, ladies and gentlemen.

[Jim Koepke]

I'm building my bench top right now, and I think I've made all of my major design decisions, save the height.
…
It seems to me that I would want to be able to exert more force along the cut, as the plane will naturally bite downwards into the stock with little help from me.…
The bench that I use right now is a steel *gasp* welding table that is 35" tall, and I feel pretty good on it; I would like it to be a couple inches shorter. Maybe I'll lay some 2" styrofoam down on the floor and see how the height adjustment works.

I turn to you, esteemed panel of experts - what are your preferences?
Thank you in advance, ladies and gentlemen.

Mark,

A very good and important question. I think it is one that everyone has to find for themselves.

A bit of insight came to me over the past few days. I did a lot of planing on some 10' pieces where a lot of walking was involved. The next day, a little planing was done to some pieces less than 3'. There wasn't any walking with the short pieces. The effect on my lower back were felt more with less planing of the short pieces than with the 10' pieces.

I think the stooping did have a lot to do with the effect.

I also think your idea of using something to stand on to find your ideal bench height may be the best you can do to find what is right for you.

One of my thoughts on making my bench is to make it a little tall and then shorten the legs if need be.

I am also seriously considering a leg vise to allow thicker boards to be adjusted to my ideal planing height.

jtk

[Brent Ring]

I have one thats about 34" high and my new one that is about 29-30". I lowered it because I am starting to plane boards a bit more for fine tuning and finishing.
Its also alot easier to get larger and heavier case pieces on. :)

I will start keeping mine at a lower height, for any subsequent builds.

[Matt Kestenbaum]

Just another thing to point out --total height will not equate to where your knuckles or wrist meet the bench--there is plenty of variation in human physique. Proportions between torso/arms/legs can make fitting a 5'5" tall woodworker less than formulaic (look at the way men's dress clothes and golf clubs are sized). I am 5'4" and my bench top is at 31".

There are a few things you can do to make the decision a little less permanent. What type of bench are you building? Roubo? Tradional Euro style Joiner's? Most of the leg/foot designs can be augmented with an additional pad. the bracket feet on my bench have 3/4" maple pads screwed on...if I had needed to make a little taller I could switch to thicker pads. Lower bench and lower pad. This is also nice for wear and tear, as when/if the feet get a little beat up I can change out the pads.

Also, I have been seeing more woodworkers whose benches were made with hand planing in mind build bench-on-benchs for detail work needs that needs to be raised...routing, dovetails, carving, etc. "The Schwarz" has written about Moxon's version and before that Jeff Miller wrote a great FWW article several years ago. Check out this design sheet at posted at TFWW (its actually written up by the guys at Phila Furniture Workshop...great school/studio) http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/prodimg/ms/pdf/MS-BOBXX.pdf

[Tristan Williams]

I'm 6'6" and my current bench is about 35.5". I followed Chris's knuckle based sizing method, and I quite like the resultant height - I haven't felt any desire for it to be higher or lower.

[Michael Peet]

I am 5'10" and the knuckle method indicated somewhere between 33" and 34" for me. I went with 34" since I can always shorten it. I also have a troubled back which also swayed me to err on the side of height.

Mike

[Jack Edward]

I'm about 6'3" and sick of being stooped over so I build my bench quite a bit higher than anyone recommends -38". I then built a sturdy box 6"high and about 2'x5' and covered in skateboard grip tape. It fits under the shelf and comes out when I need a lower bench. Which as it turns out, isn't often.

[Matt Evans]

Whoever was talking proportions differing from person to person has a very good point.

The "Knuckle method" doesn't work for me. 5'9" Tall, knuckle would put me at 29.5" I have long arms and big hands. I built my bench a bit taller than I should have, its 36 5/8" tall. My ideal planing height is 34" tall, or thereabouts. I use a clamp on twin screw vise to do dovetails, and the bench is tall enough that carving isn't that bad, but planing does hurt my shoulder after a while.

My method of finding the ideal height differs from Mr. Schwarz' method. Get into you "planing stance" while holding a plane. When you are low enough that you have to stoop it is too low, when you are high enough you can feel that it will get your shoulders all sorts of ticked off with you, you are too high. Then measure from the sole of the plane, subtract the thickness of boards you will most commonly use, and you have your bench height.

[Rich Aldrich]

I am 5' 6" and made my bench 36" high. It is perfect for the normal work I do at a bench. I came up with this height when I butcher deer. The kitchen table is too low, but the island is perfect to keep from bending slightly and causing the muscles in my lower back from cramping.

I considered making the bench height so that it could be adjusted, but the extra complication wasnt worth it for this bench. I figured I could make another someday and make it adjustable.

[Zach Dillinger]

I'm 6'5", but I have extremely long arms and I use wooden body planes, so my benchtop is about 33" from the ground.

[Zahid Naqvi]

based on all this debate I bet everyone discovers their ideal, or close to it, bench height for each type of work after they have used the first bench for a while. Well mine is 31.5" (I am 5'8") I wanted to make it 32, but all the surface planning and a slight misjudgment in leg height calculation reduced it by 1/2". If I went by the Schwarz formula I'd be looking at a 29" bench (I have long arms), that felt too low.
I haven't used the bench much, as it is still under construction, but this past weekend I had to do some serious planning of the bench top, so I got a pretty decent workout. I think I probably would have liked it to be slightly higher. After about 30 mins or so I started feeling some signs of back strain, like what you get when you are hitting the 10th rep in your third set of dumbbell curls. So I knew I am putting my back into the planning. I tend to favor wooden planes so that gives me another inch or so above the bench top. I really like the idea of a portable platform to stand on when needed.

Bottom line is you can reduce the bench height much easily than you can raise it, so I'd start tall and lower it as needed.

[Nelson Howe]

I made mine the same height as my tablesaw, which is too tall for the Schwartz, but much more comfortable for everything but planing fests. I use machines for rough dimensioning, and planes for finishing and glue up leveling. When I have a lot of planing to do, I have a couple of 4" platforms (leftover beam things I built from a FWW article to be my bench) that I put on the floor beside the bench. This works well for me.

Nelson

[Mark ten Haaf]

Thanks for the responses and ideas all.
I think another thing to consider is the option of working from my knees when my back begins to tire. I think that Landis mentions in his Workbench book that Frank Klausz always did this.
I found myself doing this quite a bit when I had a lot of freehand router work to do. I would have been stooped over for long periods of time while trying to keep my work at eye level.
If I make my bench too high, I will not have this option.

[Steve Branam]

I'm 5' 8". My original build of Schwarz's Roubo was 28.5". With slipped-on feet, it's now 30.25", which so far is more comfortable for planing. I also built a bench-on-bench based on the photos and description of the one from Tools For Working Wood. This puts other work besides planing at a very comfortable height.

You can read about my original bench at http://www.closegrain.com/2009/10/my-roubo.html.

Adding slip-on feet at http://www.closegrain.com/2011/04/roubos-slippers.html.

Building bench-on-bench at http://www.closegrain.com/2011/04/building-bench-on-bench.html.

[Jim Foster]

Not an expert, but I made mine 31." If I was mroe gutsy, I would have went to 30" or 29.5" even. So far I like the height. I'm 5'10" and my primary knuckle would have the bench at about 29.5." One added bonus is the height is below the height of my stationary tool table tops, so it will allow machining long boards in my shop without as much tool movement.

[Dave Anderson NH]

Everything about bench height depends on both how you work and on your individual physique. My original bench was a 1.5" thick industrial butcher block top on top of a metal base with adjustable legs. When it first went into service over 22 years ago it was set at 36" since that was the height of the Ulmia benches I measured at the original Woodcraft store in Woburn MA. Over the years as my work moved heavily toward hand tool use the legs kept being unbolted and shortened by the 1" increments the sheet metal allowed. At the end of its use as my primary bench it was 32" high which was the minimum heigth I could set it at. I still felt it was too tall and when I designed and built my new bench from scratch I set it for 30.5" tall. I am extremely pleased with the results and it is a dream to use.

For reference, I am 5'9" tall but have extremely long arms and wear a 36" sleeve. My full "wingspan" with arms extended out to the sides is 74.5" giving me an "ape index" of +5.5.

[Brian Vaughn]

lol...I had to look up ape index, but according to the definition, I'm a +1. But I always have trouble finding shirts with long enough sleeves. Maybe I have long arms and a narrow torso?

[dave hunt]

+ 1 on the same height as my table saw. This way I can use it for an infeed table for large boards

[Mark ten Haaf]

I'm 5' 8". My original build of Schwarz's Roubo was 28.5". With slipped-on feet, it's now 30.25", which so far is more comfortable for planing. I also built a bench-on-bench based on the photos and description of the one from Tools For Working Wood. This puts other work besides planing at a very comfortable height.

You can read about my original bench at http://www.closegrain.com/2009/10/my-roubo.html.

Adding slip-on feet at http://www.closegrain.com/2011/04/roubos-slippers.html.

Building bench-on-bench at http://www.closegrain.com/2011/04/building-bench-on-bench.html.

Great bench, and nice job documenting everything with photos. I enjoyed seeing your progress.

[Zahid Naqvi]

giving me an "ape index" of +5.5.

lol! that is funny I had to look it up too, it seems my ape index is +4. Can I say you are a better/bigger ape than me :)

Steve I really like you bench and the detailed write up of the "accessories"

[gary Zimmel]

My bench is 36 1/2", I'm 6'. This I find the most comfortable to do dovetails. I also have a platform that I use if I want the height a little lower, which isn't very often.
But then again most of my machining is done with corded tools.. and then cleaned up by hand tools.
If I found I was wanting to do more and more hand planing I would build a lower bench and then add a little bench on top of it to do dovetails like Gary Benson has.

[Steve Branam]

Thanks! It was a lot of fun and very educational to build.

[Kent A Bathurst]

Late to the game...........Short answer - mine is as tall as it could be. 6'2" - it hits right in the middle between knuckles and wrist, but it would be 2" - 3" taller if I could, but I can't.........it is identical in height to the TS table, and right behind the TS - it doubles as infeed support for long stuff, and/or large-ish plywood sheets.

[Danny Burns]

I ran into this height problem when making my own benches as well, and i solved it by using the drill press table as a temporary bench, and adjusted the height until I found a comfortable height for my work, and then used that as my final height for my benches.

Even if two people are of the same height, and they stand back to back, with their arms at their sides, the arms may not line-up.
In golf they build custom golf clubs asking a person height as well as what the distance from the floor to the fingertips is, since some people came out of the trees later than others!

[Chris Fournier]

I see that there is an ape index to consider when it comes to our personal physiology. Does my love of bananas affect my index score?

A most important consideration is the kind of work that you'll be doing on your bench. Hand planing, handsawing, joinery, routing, sanding, finishing and assembly work? If you say yes to some or all of these then there is no one good height. A short bench that lets you handplane efficiently is too high for much primary breakout handsawing and way too low for anything else.

A good compromise is to with a trestle style base and build a riser under the sled foot that can be taken out for work that requires a lower working height but slipped under for a higher work height as well. At 6'1" my cabinet making bench can be set to 33" or 36" and I feel that this covers my needs.

On the other hand my large assembly table is 31" tall which keeps glue ups at a managble height for me.

If I have much handsawing to do I whip out 26" tall sawhorses.

[Eric Brown]

I use the Adjust-a-Bench legs for a about 28" to 45" range of heigth.
I am 5'6" tall and use my bench at about 34" for general use.
Lower for planing. Higher for dovetails. Real low for putting together
larger stuff. Even tilted for odd work. I enjoy the versatility.

In the end it may come down to the type of work you wish to do.
Determine the type of work you will do most, the type of tools you wish to use,
and then put the height of the bench to the most comfortable level.

Eric

[Peter vanderWerf]

Mark
To find the best height for you play around with your current bench. Make a rough 6" step that goes along the front of the bench and try it out, adjust and ty again. It is mostly a personal preference after all.

[harry strasil]

2 inches above my wrist, I have a bad back, 5 bulging discs.

[Jim Koepke]

The information in this thread has helped in my bench building planning.

What I have noticed is with my current set up, my edge planing height changes with different width boards due to the way my vise works. Some thicknesses are more comfortable to work with than others.

If my new bench uses a different vise set up, it can have the top of the boards all at the same height no matter the thickness. Currently, the bottom of the boards are all at the same height in most cases.

Currently my bench seems low to my for doing face planing. The bench that is in process currently will be a bit taller. Depending on so many other things taking place, it may be awhile, but it will be worth the wait.

jtk

[Mark ten Haaf]

The information in this thread has helped in my bench building planning.

What I have noticed is with my current set up, my edge planing height changes with different width boards due to the way my vise works. Some thicknesses are more comfortable to work with than others.

If my new bench uses a different vise set up, it can have the top of the boards all at the same height no matter the thickness. Currently, the bottom of the boards are all at the same height in most cases.

Currently my bench seems low to my for doing face planing. The bench that is in process currently will be a bit taller. Depending on so many other things taking place, it may be awhile, but it will be worth the wait.

jtk

What type of vise are you thinking of for edge jointing, Jim? A leg vise? That is what I've decided on, but if you've come up with an even better idea, I would love to hear about it!

[Adam Cherubini]

The Schwarz is right. Do what he says and you'll be happier.

The issue at stake is, guys don't have good hand planing technique. Using a plane efficiently is a whole lot more like scrubbing a bathroom floor with a brush. You have to get over the plane. This isn't that hard on your back because you lean on the plane. The converse is actually true. If you can't get your upper body weight over your planes you must produce down force with your arms and that force is reacted with your stomach and lower back.

If you like to do some jobs up a bit higher, consider building a mini bench (.e. a bench top bench). Kelly Mehler has one and it's as cute as a bug. I think he said he saw plans for it in a magazine.

The idea that every body is different so the knuckle thing doesn't work makes no sense at all. I can see using some ratio of your height not making sense, but the point here is where your hands are, and how bent your elbows will be with the plane in use. Zach rightly points out that the style of plane you use makes a difference. Metal planes, slightly higher bench. Wooden planes, slightly lower.

Here's my advice- Make your bench no higher than palm height (which I think is roughly the same as the knuckle height). Mock up this height. Then put some 4/4 stock on your mock-up and a wood plane and try it. Also, look at pictures of me or Schwarz working. There's a bootleg video of me on youtube so you can get a sense for what I'm talking about, teh speed and body position required for efficient hand work. I haven't worked with many students, but those I have worked with all had their benches set like Rob Cosman's (almost elbow height) and that doesn't work well for most folks (and they blame their planes). Because they can't produce downforce, they go looking for heavier and heavier planes, and sharper and sharper blades. But no infill can complete with us putting 60-100 pounds down on a wood plane.

For point of reference, I'm 6'7" in my work shoes and my bench is 34-1/2" high (about 1-2" under palm height for me). The benches at Pennsbury are 32" and I'm perfectly comfortable there. My near sight is going so when I have fine layout work and want to be closer, I sit on a stool. Oh, also I stand on 1/2" of anti-fatigue (anti-slip for me) mat. Don't forget to take that into account.

Adam

[Pam Niedermayer]

The Schwarz is right. Do what he says and you'll be happier.

The issue at stake is, guys don't have good hand planing technique. Using a plane efficiently is a whole lot more like scrubbing a bathroom floor with a brush. You have to get over the plane. This isn't that hard on your back because you lean on the plane. The converse is actually true. If you can't get your upper body weight over your planes you must produce down force with your arms and that force is reacted with your stomach and lower back....

Sounds like another advantage of pulling planes instead of pushing: saves your back. And remember, while it may be more efficient to scrub a bathroom floor on your knees, we have long handled brushes for a reason: saves your back, and your knees. And this isn't intended to be flip, even if it sounds like it.

Pam

[Jim Koepke]

What type of vise are you thinking of for edge jointing, Jim? A leg vise? That is what I've decided on, but if you've come up with an even better idea, I would love to hear about it!

I am thinking of eventually having a leg vice. I am also considering a way of using my current vises with an ability to have threaded holes in the apron to allow making wooden screws to make clamps along the face of the bench.

The design is still flipping about in my mind.

A bench is a way to hold one's work. I am just trying to incorporate as many options as can be thought of by my mind.

jtk

[Jim Koepke]

I have to agree with Pam on this one.

Elbow height is a bit high for trying to plane something. It is extremely difficult if one likes to occasionally sit at their bench.

Finding one's ideal bench height is going to be a personal endeavor. It will have to involve people's different ways of working and different body structures.

I do not find it necessary to exert a lot of down force on my planes in use. The only time in my experience that this is needed is when the bottom of the plane is concave over the length. When that happens there is a good solution to fix the problem. Of course, seldom do I try to make thick shavings. Even thick shavings can be made with force being applied in the forward direction. Unless of course one is using their planes in pull mode.

On another note, my lower back tends to hurt a bit after a lot of bending over. This is caused when the work is too low.

My shoulders start to hurt if some of my body weight can not be used in the work. This happens when the work is too high.

I kind of know my comfort range by feel. When it comes time to build a base for my future bench, it will be worked into the process. The bench is likely to be made a bit on the tall side. It is easier to make a bench shorter than taller.

jtk

[Robert Joseph]

Main bench is the same height as my table saw 33" (I think) because they are back to back. Have an assembly/handwork bench that is adjustable from 24" - 34" and another one against the wall that is 36"....I'm 6'2". If I had to settle on one height, I'd say the 36" is the most comfortable for most jobs, but the lower one does come in handy.