Jointer tear out

[Mike OMelia]

I am SO tired of passing hardwood over my jointer (jet 6") only to have it grab the last 1/2" and chuck a chunk across the room. I've moved the support fence way over to where I'm using the newest edge. No help. I can do a better non with my drum sander (albiet slower). Would a shelix head solve this? I use light passes. Less than 1/16". Of the spiral heads out there, which us the best value? Best performing?

Mike

[David Kumm]

That shouldn't happen very often. Are you with the grain at the end? I have several straight knife jointers and seldom see that. A slightly low outfeed table can cause the last inch or so to dig into the knife and increase chance of chipping. Dull or slow knives can do that as well. Byrd heads are really neat on a planer, less important on a jointer. Dave

[Lee Schierer]

I agree with David, that shouldn't happen very often if at all. Check the set up of your cutter head to the outfeed table, I suspect your cutters are running above the outfeed table,they should be exactly even. To check, unplug the jointer, move the guard out of the way and then take a flat piece of wood about 12" long and lay it so that it is on the outfeed table with one end about 1" past the center line of the cutter head toward the infeed table. Now rotate the cutter head like it is making a cut. When the first blade touches the wood, it should move the wood toward the infeed table only slightly, less than 1/32". If it moves more raise the out feed table. Repeat this check on each cutter.

Hopefully you know how to read the edge you are jointing to get the grain in an optimum direction for feeding it across the jointer. If the "O" is the cutter head the grain ends should approach the cutter head O\\\\\\\ not O////////.

Also 1/16" is a very heavy cut on a jointer.

[Myk Rian]

I agree about reading the grain, but not with the knife position.
The knives should be .001" or so above the outfeed table.
A Byrd head will help, but spending the bucks is up to you.

[Joe Angrisani]

.....A Byrd head will help, but spending the bucks is up to you.

Not so sure about that in this case. I'm more inclined to what David and Lee have said. My first thought was grain orientation. Then outfeed table setup. But if was knife-related (which is the only thing a helix head will change), you'd be having the problem along the full length of the board.

[Mike OMelia]

BTW, if it is a grain orientation problem, then I am somewhat out of luck since I am jointing laminated boards and I paid no attention to grain orientation whwn I laminated them. It is true that when I get tear out, it is only on one side of the lamination. Grrrr!

Mike

[Kent A Bathurst]

What happens if you flip it end-for-end and feed it that way?

[Mike OMelia]

What happens if you flip it end-for-end and feed it that way?

If I am dealing with one laminated piece that chipped out, then it can improve or chip out on the other laminate. THis is most likely a setup issue AND a grain problem. I should have paid better attention to grain orientation when I was laminating. Where IS that lessons learned book? :)

No harm for now. I got all my pieces sized on the drum sander. Maybe I am different. But I always cut parts a little big, then sand down to final dimensions.

Mike

[David Kumm]

Mark, that is good use of a drum sander. I do the same thing with raised panel glueups where the grain is matched for looks. Can you touch one end into the blades for about a 1/2 inch, then flip the board and joint it? That should minimize the end tearout some. Dave

[Mark Carlson]

The outfeed is .003 below the head on both my jointers. Both have byrd heads.


I agree about reading the grain, but not with the knife position.
The knives should be .001" or so above the outfeed table.
A Byrd head will help, but spending the bucks is up to you.

[Joe Jensen]

I have tried dial indicators to set the outfeed table and I still get the best results with this method.

1) Unplug the machine
2) take a scrap of wood with a flat edge and set the flat edge down on the outfeed table so that the scrap sits on the cutterhead
3) put a mark on the scrap just at the edge of they outfeed table, the edge facing the cutterhead
4) make sure the scrap is not resting on a knife. If using a byrd head make sure the scrap is in a position where the center of a byrd carbide cutter will hit the center of the scrap.
5) by hand rotate the cutterhead (the way it runs in use) so that the cutter starts before the scrap, and rotate until the cutter is past the scrap.

You want the scrap to drag 1/4" towards the infeed table. Very small changes in cutter height relative to the outfeed table make pretty big changes in the amount of drag. I use this method to make sure the cutters are all adjusted properly as well (before I upgraded a byrd head). With 1/4" of drag I get perfect jointing results.

[Chip Lindley]

Glue is very tough on jointer or planer knives and dulls them quickly. Hardened wood glue can actually chip HSS knives. Perhaps you could straight-edge glue-ups with a carbide straight cutter on your router table set up as a jointer with better results? Reserve your jointer for solid wood--with the grain.

[Mark Carlson]

I'm going to try this. I always joint the edge of two boards around 4 feet long, place them together on edge and look for gaps in the middle or at the edges.


I have tried dial indicators to set the outfeed table and I still get the best results with this method.

1) Unplug the machine
2) take a scrap of wood with a flat edge and set the flat edge down on the outfeed table so that the scrap sits on the cutterhead
3) put a mark on the scrap just at the edge of they outfeed table, the edge facing the cutterhead
4) make sure the scrap is not resting on a knife. If using a byrd head make sure the scrap is in a position where the center of a byrd carbide cutter will hit the center of the scrap.
5) by hand rotate the cutterhead (the way it runs in use) so that the cutter starts before the scrap, and rotate until the cutter is past the scrap.

You want the scrap to drag 1/4" towards the infeed table. Very small changes in cutter height relative to the outfeed table make pretty big changes in the amount of drag. I use this method to make sure the cutters are all adjusted properly as well (before I upgraded a byrd head). With 1/4" of drag I get perfect jointing results.

[skip gleichman]

To answer your shelix question... the Byrd heads that I have installed on my jointers have been the best upgrades to any equipment in my shop. I work with alot of firgures Walnut and Cherry and had issues like yours as well as heartbreaking tear out in general. If the made a Newman Quiet cut head for your jointer, that would be the ultimate :-) but the Byrd would be like night and day. My 6" Powermatic (for sale) and my 16" SCMI both produde almost card scraped finishes on even the craziest figured wood while the noise level has been vastly reduced. In fact, the SCMI sounded like a tornado siren when running and now you can talk over it without any effort.

[Joe Angrisani]

To answer your shelix question... the Byrd heads that I have installed on my jointers have been the best upgrades to any equipment in my shop. I work with alot of firgures Walnut and Cherry and had issues like yours as well as heartbreaking tear out in general. If the made a Newman Quiet cut head for your jointer, that would be the ultimate :-) but the Byrd would be like night and day. My 6" Powermatic (for sale) and my 16" SCMI both produde almost card scraped finishes on even the craziest figured wood while the noise level has been vastly reduced. In fact, the SCMI sounded like a tornado siren when running and now you can talk over it without any effort.

Again, I don't see how Mike's problem has anything to do with his knife head. He is not using figured wood. He is NOT getting tearout along the board. He is getting tearout at the end of the board who's grain orientation is backwards. He's not getting tearout along the whole length of the "backwards" side of the lamination - just the end. A helix/shelix is not the cure for everything. Spending money does not fix Mike's problem.

Keep it simple, Mike. Try taking 1/32" cuts.

[jonathan eagle]

Again, I don't see how Mike's problem has anything to do with his knife head. He is not using figured wood. He is NOT getting tearout along the board. He is getting tearout at the end of the board who's grain orientation is backwards. He's not getting tearout along the whole length of the "backwards" side of the lamination - just the end. A helix/shelix is not the cure for everything. Spending money does not fix Mike's problem.

Keep it simple, Mike. Try taking 1/32" cuts.

He probably has the problem you are describing and should take smaller cuts, but I am not sure you are correct that the SCH wouldn't help. Of course he doesn't havea SCH, so he should start with lighter cuts.
Jonathan

[Danny Burns]

What about stop cuts if the grain reverses?
Make a pencil line on the wood where you need to stop, and then reverse feed the wood so that you are always going with the grain.

[Lee Schierer]

What about stop cuts if the grain reverses?
Make a pencil line on the wood where you need to stop, and then reverse feed the wood so that you are always going with the grain.

Stop cuts don't work well on a jointer. Unless you are really careful you'll be unhappy with the results.

[Jim Foster]

I don't fully understand your comment, but if it's always the end of the board, it's going to be the alignment of the outfeed table with respect to the cutter-head and in-feed table. If it's regular tear-out, based on the grain of the wood, the Byrd-Shellix head will make a big difference. If your out-feed table is not flat, it can make be very difficult to get it properly aligned to the cutter-head. In this case it is possible to think it's aligned, but in reality there is a problem.

[Kent A Bathurst]

Too funny - the same thing just happened to me - running boards to make a pair of tops for matching end tables - on one face of one board out of 8, the grain turned wild and I lost a 1/2" chunk.

Of course - as always - my boards were 1-1/2" +/- too long - and that chunk is in the glue-up, but won't make it to the finished taable.

[Mike OMelia]

Somewhere in this thread I said I was taking 1/16" cuts. Not true. More like less than 1/32". I finally stopped and took a GOOD look at the scale and realized I was talking out of my backside. Lighter cuts and attention to grain have minimized the problem. Thanks akll!

Mike