Lee Valley and fettling.

[Jesse Hoover]

As the subject states my question is about fettling and Lee Valley planes .For those of you who own the #4 1/2 bench plane how much tuning up does the plane need besides honing the blade?

[Rob Lee]

As the subject states my question is about fettling and Lee Valley planes .For those of you who own the #4 1/2 bench plane how much tuning up does the plane need besides honing the blade?

Hi Jesse -

I'll "guess" zero....;)

If there's anything you think has to be done to it - I'd rather just replace it without it being touched....

Cheers -

Rob

[Jim Koepke]

My answer needs to be qualified, I do not own any Veritas planes.

My guess is that you may be fully satisfied after a quick honing of the blade. In my experience, even the best made tool can use a little fine tuning.

In my case, the plate for an adjustable mouth on a Lie-Nielsen plane was fine for most people. I felt it could be a touch smoother. I polished the edge of the plate a little and also cleaned up some machining marks on the adjuster lever.

Besides honing the blade, most likely all that will be needed is for you to adjust the mouth opening.

jtk

[Jesse Hoover]

Hi Jesse -

I'll "guess" zero....;)

If there's anything you think has to be done to it - I'd rather just replace it without it being touched....

Cheers -

Rob


My apologies .I meant no offense .The only reason I asked was because the LV 4 1/2 as well as the LV LA block plane would be my first purchase of hand planes .

[Jim Neeley]

It's a darned good and valid question, Jesse... I'm just learning but it sounds like many new planes need it.

IMO that's part of what you're buying with a LV or L-N plane (amongst others, I'm sure).

[Jim Koepke]

It's a darned good and valid question, Jesse... I'm just learning but it sounds like many new planes need it.

IMO that's part of what you're buying with a LV or L-N plane (amongst others, I'm sure).

With the LV or LN planes, you are buying something that needs very little fettling. The back of the blades should be flat or very close to it. There might be some adjustments to set, but like Rob Lee said, if it is not ready to go out of the box, send it back.

That is as they say, "straight from the horse's mouth."

The case with my #60-1/2 was the mouth had a smoothness like nylon, I wanted silk. A few strokes with an Arkansas stone gave me the feel I wanted. Most people likely wouldn't have bothered.

jtk

[Lawrence Richards]

My LV planes have needed no fettling out of the box- heck, even the irons are pretty darned sharp and only needed a honing before use (ok, after use... of couse everyone tries them out of the box... and the irons are pretty sharp right out of the box). The backs are dead flat.

The only real playing around I'll imagine you'll do is perhaps making a new tote... I'm still getting used to mine as the shape is slightly different from the traditional stanleys. I'm still working with mine as it came from the factory, but I can see replacing it and the knob with a little more rounded mesquite in the future. Oh yeah, and one more thing you'll do is actually set the setscrews/stops for the side play etc. But I don't really call that "fettling" as much as "putting the thing together for use" so that's not really a factor.

I have the large scraping plane, DX60 block plane, and bevel-up jointer from Lee valley and all of them are amazingly well finished tools that were all ready-to-go out of the box.

[Rob Lee]

My apologies .I meant no offense .The only reason I asked was because the LV 4 1/2 as well as the LV LA block plane would be my first purchase of hand planes .

Hi Jesse -

Absolutely non taken....! (that's why the ";)" )

When you buy a higher end plane like ours or LN's you should expect it to be fine out of the box. Just hone the blade - and you're good to go. You've already paid us to ensure it's fettled for you. If it's your first plane - I'd recommend starting with just one, and learn how to use it well.

If you go the used route (and that's not such a bad way to go either), you can fettle without risking a large investment, and you can also learn about tuning a plane. Still, I'd recommend buying from someone here who has tuned the plane already. I would not buy the "cheapest" plane you can find.

Cheers -

Rob

[David Weaver]

Like Rob says, none.

You could scribble a little paraffin on the bottom if you want, but that's about it.

[John Tallyn]

I own two LV planes, with the newest one arriving last week, a bevel up jack. That plane took a full width, full length shaving straight out of the box. That being said, after cutting a few shavings, I did polish the back, (it was completely flat, so that took less then five minutes), then honed the blade, which again took minimal time. I then spent the next half hour or so, grabbing pieces of wood that had some swirly grain, and planning them just for fun. So, both of my LV planes were perfect out of the box, as I expected, just as my Lie Nielson planes were. Buy either LV or LN planes as you can afford them, and some older planes, either from people here on the creek, or from other reputable dealers or sellers, then learn to fettle planes once you know what a plane is supposed to feel like, and how it's supposed to glide thru a piece of wood. Fettling older planes has it's own rewards, and is enjoyable in it's own way, just a little easier when you know what the end result is supposed to be.

[jamie shard]

Fettling older planes has it's own rewards, and is enjoyable in it's own way, just a little easier when you know what the end result is supposed to be.

+1

Buy a high quality plane first and then you can learn to bring lower quality planes up to that level of performance. One of my first planes was the LV bevel down smoother. No fettling required.

[Terry Beadle]

Both LN and LV planes are nearly ready out of the box, blade honing not with standing. Both need honing.

David Charlesworth recommends using some semi-chrome polish on the sole. This final polishing to the sole makes it glide more easily and prepares the surface for wax, or crisco, or thinned BLO on a leather puck.

For my planes, I check the flatness of the sole with some 320 grit wet/dry on a true cast iron surface or a granite block. Soles are never perfect from the manufacturer IMO. For example, my Clifton #3 required about 10 min of flattening and 5 min of polishing. That's it and it's stayed true for several years now.

You can certainly get good results from LN and LV planes out of the box but a bit of tweaking is a good thing IMO.

[Paul Ryan]

I own 3 LV planes and 2 LN and have had to do 0 fettling on any of them. I havent flatened the backs of the blades because there was no need to. I used the blades out of the box until they needed there 1st honing. The blades require a lot less sharpening than the old stanleys as well. I bought a couple of old stanleys see if I really would use hand tools. And now have moved to new tools because I use them so much. I dont think I will ever go to hand sawing, but I hardly ever use my lectric jointer and sanders anymore.

[george wilson]

Metal polishes might tend to get into the pores of cast or ductile iron,leaving abrasive on the wood,I would think. Cast iron is one of the materials used as a carrying medium for lapping in machine tool work. Why would you put Crisco on your wood?????

[Jim Neeley]

George,

How does metal polish contrast with paraffin? I see Cosman, Charlesworth and others swabbing paraffin and I haven't had any problem as a result of using it but have often wondered about it...

[David Weaver]

Metal polish has aluminum oxide abrasive in it (at least the good ones do). It also has a solvent rust protectant that will hold some of the abrasive and metal filings to the bottom of the plane, even if you try to wipe it.

Charlesworth uses simichrome after he tunes the bottom of a shoulder plane in one of his videos - to clean off the burrs from using wet/dry paper to lap the plane sole. I have also used it, and then followed it with a solvent filled rag to try to clean all of the steel off - still had black residue for a while when planing. A medium sandflex block to clean the bottom of a plane that has been lapped doesn't bind the abrasive to the plane, and does probably a better job of removing any burring or grabbiness left by sandpaper or lapping grit.

paraffin is harmless (and effective) - it's cheap (should be a couple of bucks for a pound in the canning section, which will last *years*), has no abrasive, and I've never seen any issues with finish or glue using it. If you are afraid of its ability to affect glue adhesion, then you can refrain from waxing the sole of a plane that you're using to plane edges before gluing.

I have lapped a lot of older planes - as in dozens - (never new premium planes - it would be difficult to do anything other than make them slightly convex - which wouldn't impede their use, but wouldn't improve it, either), and lapping only with 80 grit followed by a medium sandflex block will leave a surface on wood that can't be differentiated by going to finer grits in the lapping (i.e., it won't mark the wood). Going above and beyond that in grit is for appearance of the plane and not appearance of planed wood, though it is certainly true that what you are lapping a plane at with 80 grit paper is a little finer than 80 grit by the time you are done lapping - couple that with the fact that the abrasive will not dig as deep in the metal as it would in wood and the removal of burrs with the sandflex, and the result is finer than "80 grit" sounds).

The new premium planes are far beyond that level of finish - there's no need to do anything other than use paraffin or whatever your choice of wax may be, and that is only for your benefit in planing ease.

If you do find that an LN or LV plane needs to be lapped at all, it is the result of a manufacturing defect, and you are better off sending it back (you will be better off sending it back without attempting to correct it yourself, I would guess).

[Jim Koepke]

I think there is some very good information above.

The best may be to invest in a quality plane in the beginning to know what they can do.

Maybe I was lucky in my pursuit of hand planes. My intentions at first were not to be a wood worker. My intentions were to make a few chairs for the back yard and some shelves for in the house. If there was not that incentive for me, I might have given up on woodworking.

I did not know how well a hand plane could perform. A lot of sandpaper was used in my shop.

It was amazing how much better my planes became as my ability to sharpen a blade improved. A couple of fortunate purchases on ebay put a couple of Stanley/Bailey planes in my shop that were well tuned.

Making shavings is mesmerizing. Other than the glow of a finished piece, making shavings is one of my favorite parts of wood working.

I would bet that I am not the only one to make shavings that didn't really need to be made.

So even though my advice is so often to buy old and fix it up, others have made a very valid point of how can someone tune up a plane to be a real joy if they do not know their target.

I think the pride many have when using one of their LV or LN planes is not one iota less than the pride I feel when taking a shaving with one of my rescued from the rust heap rehabs. When you get right down to it, in most cases, their planes have a century of human advancements built in to them.

jtk

[Jim Neeley]

Thanks, David!! :)

[Paul Ryan]

I think there is some very good information above.


I would bet that I am not the only one to make shavings that didn't really need to be made.



jtk

I am guilty of this, I find it very relaxing a soothing to make shavings. There is something about the sound, and smells that just are mesmerizing. When I was younger I would take a baseball bat to a garbage can to relieve stress, now I take out a rough sawn plank and make shavings.

[glenn bradley]

Got a LV Low Angle Jack a few weeks ago. Took it out of the box, waxed the sole, adjusted the depth of cut and went at it. No worries, that's part of what you are paying for.

[Eddie Darby]

You get what you pay for with planes.
One thing I would suggest before taking a plane for a spin, is to make sure that all of the screws are tight, as things can come loose during shipping, or were not tightened down during manufacture.

[Terry Beadle]

Reply to George: I use Crisco as I don't have any mutton grease. Mutton grease was used by the 17th century woodworker per Roy Underhill. My reference to the different mediums other than paraffin was to disclose there are other methods ( may be not as good as paraffin or may be better...). I've never considered the pores of a polished sole holding enough lubricant of any type to affect the finished surface of furniture. It maybe so, but my old peepers haven't noted any differences and I don't put much on a sole. The recommendation of Charlesworth to use some chrome polish will reduce the size of the ridges left by fine milling and the addition of what ever lubricant you choose should make the plane go like greased lightening ( pun intended..hoot! ). I prefer to use Johnson's floor wax on my plane soles and my cast iron TS and Jointer surfaces. On my woodies the Crisco seems to work well with a very small amount. If you over grease, then yes, you would get french fries looking for a home !

Jim and George - my understanding is that the metal polish is to further smooth the sole surface but not enough to affect the sole flatness. One could use some mineral spirits to clean the metal polished surface to life any left in the pores I would think. I've never seen any iron filing marks on a planed surface from a plane I've used semi-chrome on . I've probably been lucky more than skilled.

[Tony Shea]

I just wanted to add to the praises of LV planes out of the box. Their blades are probably some of the flattest you will see in any plane. I've also bought a couple replacement irons from them for Stanleys and my BU jack plane and every time am astounded by the level of flattness or their irons. They seem flatter than LN replacement blades, Hocks, etc.

Also will ad that the only fettling is some adjustments. Lots of planes are shipped with the lever cap over tightened to keep everything together during the trip. You should always check this setting before making blade depth adjustments. Just read your instructions once you receive your plane.

[david charlesworth]

Just a couple of points.

I like to polish the soles of my planes because this reduces friction. I finish a sole on 240 grit wet and dry and follow this with metal/chrome polish. This last step significantly reduces friction.

The chrome polish does create fine metal dust which leaves black marks on the timber for the first few strokes, but it soon wears off. I follow the polish with a couple of coats of wax and this also has a beneficial cleaning effect.

No one has mentioned that the front edge of chipbreakers are never ready to go. They almost always need a little honing to get rid of a slightly blunt edge. Blunt square edges will cause choking if the mouth is closed very fine. Fit against flat side of blade should also be checked.

best wishes,
David Charlesworth