100+ tennons

[craig carlson]

Hi,

I'm going to be cutting over a hundred tennons this weekend. I'm leaning to cutting the shoulders on the table saw and then bandsawing the remainder of the cheeks. So, what would you do for this amount of tennons? Table saw with dado blade, table saw with tennon jig (Delta), router table or what I'm leaning to? My thoughts are using the table saw/band saw would be faster and safer doing a repetive boring machine operation.

Craig
Sebastopol, Ca

[Jerry Ingraham]

I, personally, would use the tablesaw and tennoning jig. I would think that it would be slightly quicker than the tablesaw and bandsaw, at least for the cheek cuts. The shoulder cuts may be best served on the bandsaw, cause nibbling 100+ of them with the tablesaw would be tiresome. Just my two cents! Either way, you've got your work cut out for you!

Jerry

[Jamie Buxton]

If the tenons are nice rectangular ones on the ends of nice rectangular sticks, I cut them on the tablesaw plus the bandsaw. First I cut the shoulders on the table saw. Then I rough-cut the cheeks on the bandsaw. I generally make four cuts on the bandsaw -- the two cheeks, plus the two other faces of the tenon. Then I go back to the tablesaw and fine-cut the cheeks. I stand the sticks up against the rip fence, and don't use a tenoning jig.

I used to use just the table saw, but added the bandsaw operation for two reasons. First, the tablesaw blade doesn't really like doing that cheek cut. It is going through the wood in an odd way. It chokes and burns, and dulls quicker than I'd like. With the waste removed on the bandsaw, the table saw blade is much happier making the cheek cuts. Second, without the bandsaw operation I'd be cutting those two other faces of the tenon by hand with a chisel. That's pretty slow when you're doing a bunch.


As for just cutting the cheeks directly on the bandsaw, I find that leaves a glue surface which is too rough to make me believe it will bond well.

[Mark Singer]

I did about 240 tenons for my pool enclosure. I used a band saw and a Compound Miter saw...set the depth ...there is a stop and clamp in a stop block...it was much faster than the tablesaw.

[Kevin Murdock]

Whatever technique you use, please be safe and stay alert.

Constant, repetitive tasks like this are the ones where we tend to forget about safety.

Good luck!

/Kevin

[William Lai]

Mark: If I understand you correctly, you have a _sliding_ CMS that has a depth of cut stop? Is it a common SCMS feature? I didn't realize you could do that, thought that it's always a through cut.

[Mark Singer]

I have the Hitachi 8 1/2 and there is a screw and double nut that limits the plunge. So a stop block clamped to the fence sets the position and the screw sets the depth and you make one cut , flip it and make another. The small edge shoulder you can trim ther or on the bandsaw. I am sure most saws have that feature.....You could make a dado or rabbett with a series of cuts.
Mark: If I understand you correctly, you have a _sliding_ CMS that has a depth of cut stop? Is it a common SCMS feature? I didn't realize you could do that, thought that it's always a through cut.

[Jeremy Bracey]

I did a couple hundred on the table saw with jig. Takes time, but accurate. My bandsaw version doesnt seem as consistant.

[craig carlson]

Hi,

Well, I cut a half a dozen practice tennons tonight using the table saw for the shoulders and the band saw for the cheeks. The process, for me anyway, felt comfortable. Any loose joints can be fixed with veneer and any tight joints can be sanded to fit. After doing some pattern routing with a 2" bit sticking out of my router table on some other parts, I'm a little gun shy about putting my fingers anywhere near a rotating cutting tool! My feeling is that if it feels unsafe, it is! I guess it's all up to the individual. I will be using Unibond 800 for the glueing part and it is a gap filling glue for any gaps that need to be delt with.

Craig

[Jeff Sudmeier]

I have the Hitachi 8 1/2 and there is a screw and double nut that limits the plunge. So a stop block clamped to the fence sets the position and the screw sets the depth and you make one cut , flip it and make another. The small edge shoulder you can trim ther or on the bandsaw. I am sure most saws have that feature.....You could make a dado or rabbett with a series of cuts.

This is a newer feature of the SCMS... but it is a great one! My new one has this feature and I have already used it. The depth stop is a nice addition in my book!

[Dave Richards]

I'm going to throw out a different option for cutting that many tenons. I would consider clamping the pieces side by side on the bench, clamping a guide over the pieces and then cut the shoulders with a circular saw.

After the first cut, roll the pieces and do it again. Then I'd go to the bandsaw and cut the cheeks.

[Don Carkhuff]

I hvae 2 ideas.
If you have a table saw tenon jig, use it with 2 blades in the blades spaced to desired tenon thickness. Shims will be required to fit mortise. Also cut shoulders on table saw.
#2. I made a horizontal router jig as described in Woodsmith Magazine. I can't tell you how much I like this set-up. Nearly 100% of chips go in the dust collector. It excells at cutting tenons with a spiral upcut bit. I typically, however, use it to cut mortises and then use loose tenon that fit directly from the planer. I round the loose tenon edges with a round over bit. Strength is still acceptable even if you fit the loose tenoons with square edges and have gaps in the joint. You still have plently of long grain to long grain glue area. I've tested both to joints failure with a Vega (Decatur, Illinois)testing machine.
When cutting tenons, the router bit is under the material while cutting. This is a very safe set-up. and all chips are under vacuum pressure. The shoulders will be sharp from the spiral upcut bit. End Mills work ok too. Run 4 flute end mills a little slower.

[Mark Singer]

Jeff,

My saw must be at least 8 or 9 years old!


This is a newer feature of the SCMS... but it is a great one! My new one has this feature and I have already used it. The depth stop is a nice addition in my book!

[Don Carkhuff]

Thanks Mark,
I've owned the same saw for 8 years and never even gave that stop any consideration. DUH!
Thanks again,
Don

[Sam Blasco]

For straight, centered tenons, I go bandsaw all the way now. Cheeks first, then shoulders. I suppose it could work the other way. The nice thing is that the tenon is gauranteed to be centered because you are referencing off of the fence which isn't moved. For the shoulders I use a miter gauge with a jig on it. The operation is so fast, it is nearly ridiculous when compared to the days when I did it all on the table saw or router table, not to mention quite abit safer. Of course my bandsaw is Italian (Just ask the next Tour de France winner, Paulo - he knows who he is), and the blade of choice is a Lenox carbide. Incredibly accurate, with a finish quality that the table saw can't match. I've got pictures somewhere, but I'll have to get them on the computer first.

[Roy Wall]

For straight, centered tenons, I go bandsaw all the way now. Cheeks first, then shoulders. I suppose it could work the other way. The nice thing is that the tenon is gauranteed to be centered because you are referencing off of the fence which isn't moved. For the shoulders I use a miter gauge with a jig on it. The operation is so fast, it is nearly ridiculous when compared to the days when I did it all on the table saw or router table, not to mention quite abit safer. Of course my bandsaw is Italian (Just ask the next Tour de France winner, Paulo - he knows who he is), and the blade of choice is a Lenox carbide. Incredibly accurate, with a finish quality that the table saw can't match. I've got pictures somewhere, but I'll have to get them on the computer first.
Yeah, that sounds like a slick procedure..........post those pics when you can!!!

[Keith Christopher]

For this I would use my router with a flat bottom bit and a jig. Mount it to the end of my table and route the cheeks and bandsaw the shoulders.



Just my .02

[Ken Salisbury]

One of the most efficient pieces of equipment in my shop is the horizontal router table I made in 1990 (15 years old and still going strong :)) to do exactly what you are trying to do (process lots of tenons quickly and accurately). I have since made 1,000's of tenonsand mortises on this little devil. It is described on my web site called Tenons in 10 Seconds or Less (http://www.oldrebelworkshop.com/tenon jig.htm)

[Ken Salisbury]

I have had several requests for the article which one member said is no longer available from WoodSmith. I had it in my magazine archives and scanned the article/drawings (2 pages). I can e-mail to anyone who has a high speed connection (files are full page 8½" x 11") 750K and 780K. Send me a PM (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/private.php?do=newpm&u=19) with your e-mail addy.

Or I guess I could snail mail a copy for a http://www.oldrebelworkshop.com/lilbud.gif

[Ken Salisbury]

I have had several requests for the article which one member said is no longer available from WoodSmith. I had it in my magazine archives and scanned the article/drawings (2 pages). I can e-mail to anyone who has a high speed connection (files are full page 8½" x 11") 750K and 780K. Send me a PM (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/private.php?do=newpm&u=19) with your e-mail addy.

Or I guess I could snail mail a copy for a http://www.oldrebelworkshop.com/lilbud.gif

I have had more than a dozen requests which have all been sent as of this morning. CAUTION: the mail is more than 1.5 Meg - give it time to download. The 2 files are high resolution to allow a good printed copy to be made. If for some reason you don't get yours, let me know.

[Sam Blasco]

I have also used my vertical router attachment for tenons in the past, and it works very well for stub tenons, but if your tenon is going to be much over 1.5" long that begins to be alot of wood under bit at once for most routers and is not practical over 2". I can make an 12" long tenon on a 4x8" beam if I so choose on my bandsaw if I so choose, almost as fast as I do a tenon for a table apron. I will try an post some pictures here and we will see if they come through.