European hinges?

[Ken Fitzgerald]

I am getting ready to start building an entertainment center and it uses hidden European style hinges.

Any catches to using these?

Any recommendations?

Thanks!

[Leo Graywacz]

Compact or snap on, overlay or inset. All have their quirks.

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Ken, the first thing is to carefully read the instructions, something I'm sure you're good at considering your former employment.

Number two is to go metric, buy a metric tape and use the 32mm system that the hinges are designed for.

Number 3 is to buy a high quality 35mm bit for boring the hinge holes.

A few years ago I finally went with the remainder of the world and changed to using the metric system for cabinets, I adopted the 32mm system and have been very pleased.

Good quality Euro hinges are a pleasure to use.........Regards, Rod.

[Mark Ashmeade]

Why are they described as "Euro" hinges? For every pair of "Euro hinges" in Europe, you'll find another 50 or 100 pairs of common or garden butt hinges. Exactly the same as the US. Just as (un) common on either side of the pond. I blame IKEA...

[Steve Ryan]

Blum are the best, although Grass users will argue. No need to adopt the metric system either if you don't want to. Euro hinges originated in Europe. In Germany people own their kitchens and take them along when they move, even if they are renters. The 32 MM system came about as a way of producing frameless cabinets. 32mm because that was as close as they could get the gang drill spindle centerlines together. In the simplest form a cabinet end panel will be line bored with what is sometimes called a "shotgun" pattern. Line of holes top to bottom, 1 in front and 1 in back. All hardware mounted onto these holes. Hinge mount plates had 32mm screw spacing, drawer slides have the same setback to the first screw hole as hinge plates, aon on it goes.

[John TenEyck]

It is important to decide on which hinges you are going to use before designing the project. The hinges define what overlays are possible, to some extent, if you are going with an overlay door. Also, each hinge has a minimum required reveal, which is the gap between the door and frame, or between two doors, so that the door will not bind when opened. The minimum reveal can be quite large for some of the european style hinges, like 3/16". This seems to be more of an issue with the face frame style hinges than the frameless ones, but all have a certain min. reveal that must be taken into account during the design stage.

I really like the clip-on style hinges, and you can get them in both FF and frameless types. You mount the door and cabinet parts separately and then the doors just snap on. A story stick makes mounting fast and foolproof. Also, some hinges have only two way adjustment - up/down, left/right, while others have 3 way - up/down, left/right, and in/out. These are the ones I prefer, especially on a remodeling job where the cabinet or FF may not all be in plane.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

Why are they described as "Euro" hinges? For every pair of "Euro hinges" in Europe, you'll find another 50 or 100 pairs of common or garden butt hinges. Exactly the same as the US. Just as (un) common on either side of the pond. I blame IKEA...

In Europe, it became very stylish to use cabinets without frames and concealed hinges. I believe that this is (or has been) referred to as "European Style Cabinets", merely because they were so popular there. I consider this nothing more than "Marketing Speak".

A more accurate term than "Euro Hinges", is probably cup hinge. Broadly speaking, it may actually refer to a hidden hinge, but I have never seen it used to refer to anything but a cup hinge. Disclaimer: I have not spent much time looking at, using, installing, or noticing the names of hinges.

[Steve Ryan]

It was not so much as stylish, it was a necessity. Europe had to re build after the war. Frameless cabinets are quick to assemble and solid wood was in short supply. A basic wall cabinet has 6 construction parts and 2 shelves. All made from edgebanded flakeboard with p-lam applied. Some were nothing more than EB cured painted sheets.

Back to OP question. Many ways and methods to do what you want with these hinges. You may want to try the 170 degree hinges, but I do not like those. Too many parts involved that sag over time.


In Europe, it became very stylish to use cabinets without frames and concealed hinges. I believe that this is (or has been) referred to as "European Style Cabinets", merely because they were so popular there. I consider this nothing more than "Marketing Speak".

A more accurate term than "Euro Hinges", is probably cup hinge. Broadly speaking, it may actually refer to a hidden hinge, but I have never seen it used to refer to anything but a cup hinge. Disclaimer: I have not spent much time looking at, using, installing, or noticing the names of hinges.

[Chris Padilla]

Go to Rockler's website and search on them. You'll learn a few things. If you have a Rockler's store close by, definately visit...you'll learn even more holding them in your hand and seeing how they work. There are a lot of choices out there.

BTW, a 1 3/8" forstner works just fine if you don't feel like purchasing a 35 mm one. (35 mm = 1.378")

[bob hertle]

Ken,

I've done several kitchens and many, many cabinets with various styles/brands of euro hinges. Besides the good advice you've gotten so far, I would add the following:

Check and doublecheck your edge distance on the doors--it's real annoying to have to plug a 1 3/8 dia. hole. I set up a simple jig in the drill press.
If you are planning any edge treatment on the door, you should make a layout to make sure you don't "find" the bottom of your hinge mortise (hole).
Most important, when you think you've got everything scoped out, do yourself a favor and make up a sample. Just one cup hole in a mocked up (3-4" long) door stile, and a corresponding face frame piece. (or, a plain piece to represent the cabinet side wall if you're going euro style). The mockup will verify that your overlay is correct with no binding, and that your routed edges don't interfere with the cup holes.

Ah yes, one more thing, get a vix bit, or some reliable way to center the pilot holes on the countersinks in the cup "wings".

I confess to using the inch system for all my measurements. I've never gotten all that comfy with metric. Chris P. is correct on the 1 3/8 forstner. I have both the 1 3/8 and the purpose made carbide 35mm hinge bit. The forstner makes a slightly tighter mortise that I like, but I have found it too tight for some brands/ types of cups. I have used several brands but my nod goes to Grass, or Blum.

Regards
Bob

[Don Jarvie]

If you go with Blum they make a forstner bit packaged with a depth control spring that is designed to use with their hinges. Its worth the extra could of bucks.

As said above you need to check how much overhang the doors will have with the face frame. There are different styles for every application.

[michael case]

Ken,

It may seem obvious, but I will mention it anyway. You really want to use a drill press for this. As Bob has mentioned watch the set backs. Sometimes the cheaper ones have flawed directions that give the wrong measurements. So stick with Blum or a good brand. Once you get used the set up I think you will find them very easy to deal with.

[Richard Dooling]

+1 on Blum. We used several brands back when I had a shop. These hinges were just getting to be a big part of the trade. While the 170* hinge might seem overly complex, we didn't have any issues with the Blums. Can't say how they've held up over twenty five years though.

I definitely think you need to go more than 95* though. People just don't stop opening a door at 90* and pretty soon there's damage to the hinge and sometimes the cabinet.

I thought we mostly used 135* but I don't see that option on the Blum site. They do offer 120*, 155* and others.

Google Blum and you'll find a PDF application document.

[Phil Thien]

Hopefully this isn't a hijack, but Ken has prompted me to ask this question:

When using "Euro" hinges on 32MM (which is about 1-1/4", right?) spacing, how do you know where to place the hinges on the DOORS. I mean, the door sometimes is a little smaller than the front of the cabinet, right? And there are many holes in the cabinet, how do you pick the ones you want to use? Do you mount the hinge to the cabinet first, and then use the hinge to mark the location of the holes on the door?

Or are you literally just trusting the measurements, and measuring from the top or bottom of the door and trusting that it will line up when attached to the cabinet?

How is this typically done?

[Larry Frank]

There is some really good advice in this thread. I am building cabinets for my shop and decided to go with the frameless Euro style cabinets. It is my first experience with this system. I am using the 32 mm shelf spacing and the 37 mm setback from the front of the cabinet. You can also buy drawer slides to fit this system of hole spacing. I decided to go with this system as it will make it easy to change a base cabinet from doors to drawers or vise versa if I decide I need to.

Based upon the recommendations in the forum, I bought my slides and hinges from Woodworkers hardware and purchased the economy models. They are fine for the shop but probably not the quaity that you want for an entertainment center.

Like already mentioned, I highly recommend that you make a sample so that you get comfortable with using this type of system. The various set back distances and overlays take a little getting used to and I made several to make certain that I understood what I needed to do.

I also needed to be able to properly space the shelf support holes as they are also the holes for hinges and drawer slides. I looked at all of the available jigs and decided to build the WWA jig. It uses a router and 5 mm spiral bit to drill the holes and is very quick and makes nice holes. It took a little while to properly lay out and make the jig but well worth the effort.

[Rick Fisher]

Up here ( Canada ) European style hinges are the norm.. I am in the construction business and never see face frames ..
The top brands are Blum and Salice .. See lots of them .. Snap on hinges are the most popular, there are others that need to be screwed on.. Installers dislike them..
They are actually a pretty simple device, easy to adjust and install, but if you stare at them too much first, you can get confused.. lol

In cabinetry up here, its normal to install the mounting clip in the holes for the adjustable shelves.. I actually think that once you use them on a project, you will like them ..

[Timothy Juvenal]

+1s on the vix bit and 1-3/8" forstner bit.

The 90 or 95 degree hinges are used where you need the door to stop @ 90 degrees open, such as next to a wall or next to a deeper cabinet; they are also used with flipper doors.

The hinge bodies are available with different amounts of "crank" for use in inset, 1/2 overlay, and full overlay applications.
You can also adjust the amount of overlay by using different thickness baseplates. Baseplates are available in a wide range of thicknesses.

The clip-on hinges are handy, as they allow you to quickly remove or replace a door with little effort.

When figuring your hinge offset ( the distance from the edge of the cup hole to the edge of the door), set the hinge to the center of it's adjustment, and adjust your offset using a test piece until you have the door gap you want. 3/32" is typical for the gap between overlay doors, or between an inset door and faceframe. The cup drilling offset is typically around 1/8" - 3/16", that is, the 1-3/8" or 35mm hole you will drill for the hinge cup will be a lot closer to the edge of the door than one might assume.

Drill press definately should be used to drill for the hinge cup, in order to get your offsets and depths correct and uniform, but I've drilled them by hand on site when necessary, and it works fine with a sharp bit, but i wouldn't want to do a whole kitchen that way.

It's a good idea to make your door stiles and rails a little heavier than 3/4" thickness, say 13/16" or even 7/8", when using cup hinges, as the point of the forstner bit is prolly only 1/16" or 3/32" from the face of the door stile when the cup hole is being drilled to it's required depth. The hinge geometry works fine with the slightly thicker door parts. IIRC, they make hinges with different geometry for doors over 7/8" thick, not positive on that one.

Also, the hinges are available either free-swinging or self-closing. Use the free-swinging hinges if you need to use touch-latches. Use the self-closing hinges if you want to use the soft closers. Soft-closers are easy to install and adjust, and add value in the customers eyes.

Recently used the Salice hinges on a big kitchen job, and they were top quality. Every bit as nice as the Blum, with as wide a range of options available.

Timothy

[Dick Bringhurst]

Hi Ken, the first thing is to carefully read the instructions, something I'm sure you're good at considering your former employment.

Number two is to go metric, buy a metric tape and use the 32mm system that the hinges are designed for.

Number 3 is to buy a high quality 35mm bit for boring the hinge holes.

A few years ago I finally went with the remainder of the world and changed to using the metric system for cabinets, I adopted the 32mm system and have been very pleased.

Good quality Euro hinges are a pleasure to use.........Regards, Rod.

the 35mm bit should NOT have a center spur, it can go all the way thru depending on the depth of the wood. Test on scrap. Dick B.

[Leo Graywacz]

the 35mm bit should NOT have a center spur, it can go all the way thru depending on the depth of the wood. Test on scrap. Dick B.

How thick are your doors? Most 35mm bits are 1/2" deep with a 1/16" long center point. Only time I have ever gone through a door is when the adjustable stop on my Delta drill press slipped. It was on a matched grain plywood kitchen. That thing got thrown across the shop and replaced with two simple nuts and a rubber washer. Hasn't failed me yet.

Are you thinking of a spade bit instead of a forstner bit?

[Randall Houghton]

Ken
I would recommend that you find a Blum dealer in your area and aquire a catalog and any hand out sheets they have that show the various configurations for doors mounted with cup hinges. This will show you the various relationships between the door and the hardware components. This an easy system to use once you understand these relationships. My experience has been(over the last 20 years) that you can not always count on the reps to steer you in the right direction when buying hardware. I've used Lee Valley's hinge boring jig for 20 years, never had a problem with it and thought it was a steal since I've drilled several thousand holes for hinges with it. Hope this helps.
Regards
Randy

[Mark P. Miller]

Or just download the catalog, if you don't want to wait.

http://www.blum.com/pdf/BUS/1046_hinge_b/1046_hinges_b.pdf

It is an extremely informative and well written document. I learned a lot when I first worked through it.

The Blum "Clip Tops" line has a hinge that will work for most conventional applications. The back of the catalog is cool too because it shows all of the jigs and tools that they sell to help prep for and install the hinges. A useful one, IMHO, is the simple little "mounting plate template". It's handy and cheap for those of us who just do occasional cabinet work.

[Von Bickley]

All of the new cabinets that I see in our area are using the European style hinge. I have some friends that have a cabinet and door business that I deal with. When I build a cabinet, I take the doors to them and they drill the holes and provide the hinges for $7.00 per door.

There hinges will work for 1/2" overlay or I can add a 9/16" strip inside the cabinet and use the same hinge for an inset door.

Love having these hinges that you can make adjustments to if needed. European hinges are definitely the way to go.......

[Robert Chapman]

You cannot go wrong with Blum hinges. As Von starts to say above - they are adjustable - usually in three planes so you can really get your doors exactly where you want them on/in the cabinet. This adjustment feature makes Blum hinges pretty forgiving.