Saving a finishing dilemma

[Roger Chandler]

Okay, at John Harts encouragement I went ahead and decided to post the resolution of my finishing dilemma on the cherry NE bowl. After the serious blotch problem :mad: I went back and wet sanded thru all the grits 80 -400 with mineral spirits, which is a solvent as you know, and it did help remove about 85% or so of the blotchy-ness.

The end grain tear out is now pretty smooth, and I guess this one will have to do as it is now............11-1/2 inches long and 9-1/4 inches wide. Finish is 2 coats shellac sanded back with 1000 grit, and a coat of WOP.

Let me know what you think of the form, and the save. Thanks everybody for your suggestions and tips on the other thread.

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[Nate Davey]

I like it. Great save and a very nice form.

[David E Keller]

I think the form is nice, Roger. The wall thickness and bark edge are perfect. I'd consider a slightly smaller foot, but I think you know that I'm not much of a foot guy anyway. Nice save.

[Roger Chandler]

I think the form is nice, Roger. The wall thickness and bark edge are perfect. I'd consider a slightly smaller foot, but I think you know that I'm not much of a foot guy anyway. Nice save.

David.........do you mean smaller in diameter or height, or both?

[David E Keller]

David.........do you mean smaller in diameter or height, or both?

Sorry, I meant height... I think the diameter of the foot is just right.

[Roger Chandler]

Sorry, I meant height... I think the diameter of the foot is just right.

Thanks David........I thought you probably meant the height..........I was trying to give it some lift as I thought the curve leading to the bottom on this size bowl would have made the whole thing appear a bit squatty. [just my thought process] Believe it or not, I did cut the foot down just a bit when I turned off the tenon, so as to give it a little better proportion.

I appreciate your comments!

[John Keeton]

Roger, it certainly looks good from here. I am a foot guy, but I do agree with David that the foot could be about half as tall and do fine. I love the look of the shellac and WOP on the bark!

[John Hart]

Nicely done Roger!! A testament to tenacity!! :)
It woulda wore me out.
Ya know, even though the foot is a tad tall, a little bevel on the foot rim would give it some separation.

Way to go man!!

[Roger Chandler]

Nicely done Roger!! A testament to tenacity!! :)
It woulda wore me out.
Ya know, even though the foot is a tad tall, a little bevel on the foot rim would give it some separation.

Way to go man!!

Thanks John.......it never occurred to me to bevel the rim of the foot. I will have to store that one away in the old memory banks for later retrieval. It is my belief that the angle of the photo distorts the proportions on the foot in relation to the form. To my eye at least, it fits well, but then again I am one who likes a foot on a bowl, so as to give it lift. I also thought that the slight dovetail shape of the foot lends itself to a design feature........I like the contrasting angle of the foot against the roundness of the bowl form itself.

Just my tastes, I guess. Thanks John for encouraging me to post this, because the other night I was tempted to start a fire in the woodstove after the blotchy finish screw-up, and the end grain issues.

I don't know if I could have gotten any better out of the re-do........I sanded this thing through 5 complete cycles of 80-400 grit by the time it was over, and the last sanding before the finish was a wet sanding which helped a great deal.

[Roger Chandler]

Roger, it certainly looks good from here. I am a foot guy, but I do agree with David that the foot could be about half as tall and do fine. I love the look of the shellac and WOP on the bark!

Hey John,

Thanks for commenting .....appreciated. You were speaking of the bark.......I did something that might be a good tip for some of the turners here when doing a natural edge and trying to keep the bark on.......

I took some thin CA glue and went around the base of the bark and somewhat saturated the bark and give it some extra strength. I do not know if it needed it to stay on, but after all the sanding I had to do with this, and the bark hitting the sandpaper so many times, it did stay on, and then the look of the shellac really made it pop also.

[Bernie Weishapl]

Roger that turned out really nice. Looks like the hard work paid off. I to would reduce the foot height some but that is just me.

[Chip Sutherland]

I applaud your persistence in saving this pretty cherry piece. I am a big fan of saving pieces I screw up. Tear out where you experienced it is common on these types of bowls. It's typically the softer wood. If your wood was on the ground it's common for it to be a little punky. I've been known to get out the 80grit hand gouge and cuss my way to a beautiful piece. I've even used Miniwax wood hardener and thin CA to penetrate the fibers to reduce tear out.

Aesthetically, the foot is fine. Any higher and it would not have fit the piece. On my NE pieces, I tuck is under (less height) because I want the piece to appear to float. Plus a foot is a formal feature and IMO isn't needed on a rustic NE piece.

[Michael James]

Nice piece Roger, love the form and finish. Personally I'd go with a smaller foot - it sort of detracts from the "au natural"ness of the NE form. my .002
mj

[Roger Chandler]

Thanks Chip and Bernie, MJ, John, John, David and Nate!

Okay, the verdict is in about the foot not being quite as high.............after looking and looking again, and considering all your points on form, I can see you all do have a point....:eek:........that being said, your foot height might be a bit more pleasing.........

Just tell me how do you figure all these little nuances when you still have the sucker in the chuck on the lathe, and just how do you get to the perfect form without walking away and totally "second guessing" everything you have done up to that point? Hummmmn?!

All I can say is that it looked good to me at the time, and now............well, it STILL LOOKS GOOD TO ME!!! :rolleyes::D;);):D:):)

[David E Keller]

... and just how do you get to the perfect form without walking away and totally second guessing everything you have done up to that point?

I'll let you know if I ever figure that out... I tend to second guess and self critique everything I turn. I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing because I think it helps me develop my sense of form and detail. It also helps me figure out what I like and dislike about a given piece.

[Roger Chandler]

I'll let you know if I ever figure that out... I tend to second guess and self critique everything I turn. I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing because I think it helps me develop my sense of form and detail. It also helps me figure out what I like and dislike about a given piece.

Bless you Dr. Keller! That observation is like a prescription medicine that makes me feel better.............funny thing.........it is the second guessing of others that makes me feel bad............but it does help me become a better turner, for which I am thankful even if the medicine [critique] does have a little bitter taste at first! ;):D:D:D:)

[Tim Thiebaut]

I think this came out very well, I love the form and the color alot.

[Dan Forman]

Roger---Good save, I like it.

I think that you learn by doing, making mistakes, studying design, getting feedback from others, (some of which you agree with, and some you probably don't, mostly depending on how well their own work appeals to you), second guessing yourself, and eventually, if you keep at it, you begin to develop confidence in your design sensibilities.

I find it very helpful to get out the graph paper and sketch out a few options in scale, as I have a very hard time visualizing what something will look like before it actually takes shape. When it's down on paper, I can better see the relationship of parts better.

Dan

[John Hart]

Just recently, I found myself with the opportunity to sell my turnings. This is something new to me. I have a requirement to provide a minimum number of pieces for display and a limited amount of time to get them done. So....I can't start from green wood and hope to hit a deadline. So, what I did was break into a bunch of boxes of old turnings that were 4 or 5 years old. Talk about new eyes!!

I am taking these older pieces, which have thick walls, funky curves, bad sanding, and bits of warp, and re-turning them into my current style and abilities. I've never been able to see something on the lathe, the same as when it comes off. Sometimes I take a picture while it's on the lathe and turn the picture 90 degrees to get a better look.

Anyway...the result has been a self-awareness. I won't say that I am a great turner....because I'm not. But...I am better than I was 5 years ago. That gain...is due to SMC and the critiques and encouragement.

[Roger Chandler]

JH, and Dan,

Thanks for your perspectives..........I totally agree that the critiques and encouragement here on SMC have made us all better turners. I look at what my work was like when I first came on this forum, and what I produce now, and it is markedly better.

Of particular help have been 2 things that readily come to mind.......one is the pictures and the related discussions that ensue about form.........these observations, especially from some of the more experienced and noted turners have helped to develop my "eye" so to speak.

The other is when as you put it, JH......."when stuff happens" it is helpful to see or hear how the more experienced turners deal with the stuff that happens!

Also a third thing I have found to be helpful is the trend of some to give a tutorial on how they go about accomplishing the project, by posting pic in progress.......those shots that show the technique, sequence or special rigging to do something.........a donut chuck comes readily to mind.............these all have made a difference for me, and I think to others as well.

[philip labre]

Roger, one thing that I think helped me a lot with designs of bowls (still have a long ways to go) is Richard Raffan's "The art of the turned bowl". The book is purely about design with lots of pics and cross sections of bowls which really help explain the curves that are pleasing to the eye and maybe more importantly in a bowl, how they feel in the hand.

[Roger Chandler]

Roger, one thing that I think helped me a lot with designs of bowls (still have a long ways to go) is Richard Raffan's "The art of the turned bowl". The book is purely about design with lots of pics and cross sections of bowls which really help explain the curves that are pleasing to the eye and maybe more importantly in a bowl, how they feel in the hand.

Thanks Philip.......I have seen several of Raffan's videos and have a couple of his books as well............I do agree........he is such a proficient turner that if one watches him carefully, they can pick up a lot, especially related to tool usage.........

[Roger Chandler]

Roger---Good save, I like it.

..... second guessing yourself, and eventually, if you keep at it, you begin to develop confidence in your design sensibilities. Dan

Dan.......I think you really hit on something here that I have experienced...........I readily acknowledge the fact that critiques have helped me develop my eye for form, and that the criticisms I have gotten on different submissions have been constructive and instructive for the most part..........these guys here are just full of helpful tips and some have developed quite an eye for form.

I have also come to a place where, I have a respect for my "design intent." Sometimes a picture that is posted does not tell why one turns something and gave it the form they did. Every turner has their own preferences and tastes.......I respect that. I have mine. I have learned to measure the critique with my intentions for the form, and if I messed up, then I can learn from it. Some points that are made do not hold water, and some do.

I will seek out critiques and the second look from an eye more developed than mine for the sake of improving my eye for form, but I will not take every comment as if it were the pure gospel, and the only view that counts.

You guys are great, and I appreciate the feedback.......part of what makes SMC great is the great people here! :):):)

[Roger Chandler]

Just recently, I found myself with the opportunity to sell my turnings. This is something new to me. I have a requirement to provide a minimum number of pieces for display and a limited amount of time to get them done. So....I can't start from green wood and hope to hit a deadline. So, what I did was break into a bunch of boxes of old turnings that were 4 or 5 years old. Talk about new eyes!!

I am taking these older pieces, which have thick walls, funky curves, bad sanding, and bits of warp, and re-turning them into my current style and abilities. I've never been able to see something on the lathe, the same as when it comes off. Sometimes I take a picture while it's on the lathe and turn the picture 90 degrees to get a better look.

Anyway...the result has been a self-awareness. I won't say that I am a great turner....because I'm not. But...I am better than I was 5 years ago. That gain...is due to SMC and the critiques and encouragement.

Boy John.......you have your work cut out for you!!! I hope turning stays fun for you, and does not turn to drudgery........meeting deadlines is not always a fun thing to do!

[John Hart]

Boy John.......you have your work cut out for you!!! I hope turning stays fun for you, and does not turn to drudgery........meeting deadlines is not always a fun thing to do!

I'm sure it'll stay fun Roger. I'm just experiencing a new environment and I just have to get adjusted.

I had the same problem with lacquer. So I locked myself in a room and punctured a bunch of cans until I got used to it. ;)

[Roger Chandler]

i'm sure it'll stay fun roger. I'm just experiencing a new environment and i just have to get adjusted.

I had the same problem with lacquer. So i locked myself in a room and punctured a bunch of cans until i got used to it. ;)

I guess that would make an adjustment is one's perspective.....:eek:;)

[Baxter Smith]

Sounds like a lot of work went into this one. One can learn more from mistakes than they can from successes. At least thats what I frequently remind myself of.;)

[Roger Chandler]

Sounds like a lot of work went into this one. One can learn more from mistakes than they can from successes. At least thats what I frequently remind myself of.;)

You are correct, Baxter.........too much work went into this, but I was the one who messed it up, so I hated to not give it a try to bring it to a usable condition........overall, I think it is okay! Thanks for the encouragement!