If Only I Could Sell a Thousand of These...

[Jim Koepke]

Give professor Google a whirl with with > e15 Backenzahn Stool <

They list for over $1,000

Does this prove some people just have too much money?

jtk

[george wilson]

Too much money and too little sense.

[David Weaver]

That site has quite a large array of ultra modern or ultra plain furniture for people who are easily separated from their money.

[David Weaver]

pk25 is my favorite so far in terms of getting the least for the most money.

$10,381 for a plain steel frame chair with some rope on it.

[Mark Wyatt]

pk25 is my favorite so far in terms of getting the least for the most money.

$10,381 for a plain steel frame chair with some rope on it.

That comes with free shipping.

[Kevin Foley]

Does this prove some people just have too much money?

Jim, you just don't understand value. Think how short meetings would be if you replaced all the chairs in your office (except yours) with these. They might work a bit better upside down - but not much. If you use orange traffic cones people figure it out too fast. Well, some do.

[John Coloccia]

Also, during the seasoning of solid wood, the wood forms their characteristic cracks, which make every piece unique. These are part of the design (since e15 wants to use as much wood as possible from each trunk) and are not defects.

It's a feature! LOL.

[James Baker SD]

come on guys, -- its German made. :-)

[James Owen]

That site has some of the most bizarre and, in my opinion, phenominally ugly designs I've ever seen.... But, hey -- I'm a traditionalist, so what do I know?

Thanks for providing the opportunity to shake my head in amazement at the absolutely stupid sums people will pay for whatever it is that that stuff qualifies as...... :D

[Casey Gooding]

I don't think it's a matter of having too much money as it is having too little taste.

[James Owen]

come on guys, -- its German made. :-)

Ja Wohl!! ...und zos cracks are zome off ze finest feat-chures awailable in ze latest Chairman designs, ja!? Prost! :D

[Jeff Wittrock]

I'm thinking the "e15 tafel hp01" might be a project I could handle. At $7530 I might even splurge for some o' that European oak.
I'm seeing a bargain version in Southern Yellow Pine. Maybe $5530?
Nah, on second thought I got to consider my labor costs and the dry wall screws I'll use to put her together. Better make it $6530.

-Jeff

[Bruce Page]

A thousand dollars for that? Good Grief!

[Stuart Tierney]

It's a feature! LOL.


Heard that before on the job...

Real meaning also happens to include starting with an 'f' but that's all. ;)

Stu.

[Deane Allinson]

I like it! I remember when I first saw that stool in a magazine 10 years or so ago. I thought it was cool enough to cut out the picture and put it in my "inspirations" pile of clippings. If he/she or they can get the money for it, then more power to them.
Deane

[Kevin Fitzsimons]

Let's see - 18.5" high and 10.6" square, 16 saw cuts (maximum), splits are part of the "charm" of the piece, a little sanding to make a concave seat... Yep, that's worth $1140.00. So I probably burned about a half million dollars of e15 stools this winter. I guess Picasso just used paper and pencils for his sketches - not much in raw materials. But it's worth is what people are willing to pay. It's the idea and execution that's worth the money.

[John Coloccia]

If I get one and it doesn't split, should I return it as defective?

[glenn bradley]

Wow . . . I'm just not sure what. . to say . . about that stuff.

[Mark Baldwin III]

If that stuff goes for those kind of prices, I should start selling my crappy loose dovetails! My airgaps and off-angles just indicate that the piece was made by a humble Wisconsin workman.

[Zach England]

192985

I like some of the designs on that site, especially this one. But then again, I like contemporary furniture.

A lot of it looks like Ikea for rich people. ugh.

[Charles McKinley]

I bought blocking for fire wood this year. I think I'll make some of those! Since I can use the Pith and call the cracks "features" I have a lot of prefectly sized pieces

[Lupe Duncan]

come on guys, -- its German made. :-)

It does look very safe, must have 4 sided airbags.

[David Keller NC]

pk25 is my favorite so far in terms of getting the least for the most money.

$10,381 for a plain steel frame chair with some rope on it.

This one is a very close second - note the construction materials "medium density fiberboard and poplar plywood". we'd have to ask Steve Knight or one of the other CNC router owners on the forum, but my guess is that such a machine could produce the parts in about 15 minutes. Then we add perhaps 8 hours of glue-up, shaving/sanding to get the joints smooth, and a rich (pun intended) coat of laquer, and viola! - $22,000.

http://hivemodern.com/pages/products.php?view=sub_product&sid=4305

[David Weaver]

Yeah, that's pretty bad. $22,028, and you still have to pay freight.

I must be a little biased in what I expect for design, because i'm not moved by the description of how some of these guys "studied" different things and then came up with a $6,000 tube metal chair that's nothing special.

There must be some snob club to be in somewhere that people have memorized the names of the designers so that they can assign arbitrary value to what otherwise would be cheap furniture.

There's an episode of Penn and Teller's BS in here somewhere - putting IKEA furniture in a gallery and giving it a false name and then seeing if someone will bite on it.

[Trey Palmer]

192985

A lot of it looks like Ikea for rich people. ugh.

That's a great line.

LOML is the general manager of a video animation and design studio. The furniture their interior designer has them buy just KILLS me. They have an ugly formed plywood and chrome bench that cost something like $2000. Recently they got some incredibly uncomfortable and impractical chairs made out of some kind of foam plastic stuff that were quite expensive.

[Darius Ferlas]

Give professor Google a whirl with with > e15 Backenzahn Stool <

They list for over $1,000
Why buy the cheap version if you could have it in European walnut, oiled for $1,740

[Chris Kowalski]

I'm surprised by the negativity in this thread. There are some beautiful and unique designs on that site. They are pretty expensive, but so is custom or low volume and unique woodworking furniture. None of that stuff is made in China or any other low cost country, and then you factor in the markup of buying from a retailer, the price is not that surprising. I don't think low volume, high quality production with metal and other modern materials in a Western country comes cheap.
I'm supprised people here are not more open minded to different design ideas and different materials.

[David Weaver]

>>I'm supprised people here are not more open minded to different design ideas and different materials. <<

If it weren't so overpriced, I doubt many people would have a problem with it. It isn't about being open minded, it's being of the opinion that it's not right to take advantage of people who have no sense.

If I ever had a store where I sold overpriced stuff that was off the wall, I would make sure to criticize other prior straw customers for not being open minded, because there is a very large % of the population now who falls prey to that criticism pretty easily. People who think that doing something different makes them cutting edge (and who are deathly afraid of being called closed minded) are usually the easiest to take advantage of.

[Derek Gilmer]

I'm surprised by the negativity in this thread. There are some beautiful and unique designs on that site. They are pretty expensive, but so is custom or low volume and unique woodworking furniture. None of that stuff is made in China or any other low cost country, and then you factor in the markup of buying from a retailer, the price is not that surprising. I don't think low volume, high quality production with metal and other modern materials in a Western country comes cheap.
I'm supprised people here are not more open minded to different design ideas and different materials.

Yes, some of them are pretty neat. But the original stool that started this is crazy expensive and not overly original in most of our opinions it seems.

[Pam Niedermayer]

... If it weren't so overpriced, I doubt many people would have a problem with it. It isn't about being open minded, it's being of the opinion that it's not right to take advantage of people who have no sense....

This is called trickle down economics. Of course, the label "economics" is not exactly what I'd call it; but I didn't have first pick. And I say it IS class warfare, and it wasn't started by the middle and working classes, who are the tricklees. :)

Pam

[george wilson]

Sounds like Chris is their ideal customer. The $22,000.00+ bookcase even says that it is priced so ordinary people can afford it (or words to that effect)!! I think if you got a bunch of those fiber drums,you could make one for yourself. Then,you could have a large bookcase that stores a minimal number of books.

[Dave Carteret]

I built a bench out of the cutoffs from some oak logs that I milled. Took me about 3 minutes with a sawzall. I wonder what I could get for it on that site. Crazy!

[John Coloccia]

re: negativity

If you click on pictures of the original stool, one of them had a split that ran from top to bottom. It's to be expected as it's made from green stumps as far as I can tell, but it seems a bit of a stretch to call that a design detail when it's pretty clearly just shoddy workmanship. If that was created by a high school student in shop class, no one would pay him $5.00 for it. Surrounding it with a self created mystique may make it more valuable, just as anything has value depending on what someone is willing to pay for it, but as experienced woodworkers I don't see why we can't have a good, hearty chuckle given that we're all in on the joke! :)

If I thought I could sell that for $1000, I'd do it all day long and laugh along with you, all the way to the bank. :D There's nothing wrong with giving the customer what he wants, and if he wants to sit on a cracked tree stump because he gets $1000 worth of something out of it, I'll be happy to supply him with a cracked tree stump.

[Chris Kowalski]

re: negativity

If you click on pictures of the original stool, one of them had a split that ran from top to bottom. It's to be expected as it's made from green stumps as far as I can tell, but it seems a bit of a stretch to call that a design detail when it's pretty clearly just shoddy workmanship. If that was created by a high school student in shop class, no one would pay him $5.00 for it. Surrounding it with a self created mystique may make it more valuable, just as anything has value depending on what someone is willing to pay for it, but as experienced woodworkers I don't see why we can't have a good, hearty chuckle given that we're all in on the joke! :)

If I thought I could sell that for $1000, I'd do it all day long and laugh along with you, all the way to the bank. :D There's nothing wrong with giving the customer what he wants, and if he wants to sit on a cracked tree stump because he gets $1000 worth of something out of it, I'll be happy to supply him with a cracked tree stump.

I agree the stool is overpriced and nothing there is a bargain. But they still have tons of interesting items and I can understand why its expensive.

[Jim Koepke]

I think if you got a bunch of those fiber drums,you could make one for yourself. Then,you could have a large bookcase that stores a minimal number of books.

LOL!

They would have to be short books to boot.

Maybe it is a bookcase for people who don't read…

jtk

[Trevor Walsh]

That's the high end design world for you, that's how the hot shots operate, and they sell for great sums due to the low production quantities and the name associated with them.

[Zahid Naqvi]

If only I could sell a Thousand of These....

Jim, I think you got it wrong, I wish I could "buy" a thousand of these and not break a sweat.

[David Weaver]

I can understand why its expensive.

Me, too. It's hard to take advantage of people by charging them ridiculous prices for mediocre goods if you don't charge them ridiculous prices for mediocre goods.

[Tom McMahon]

I'm surprised by the negativity in this thread. There are some beautiful and unique designs on that site. They are pretty expensive, but so is custom or low volume and unique woodworking furniture. None of that stuff is made in China or any other low cost country, and then you factor in the markup of buying from a retailer, the price is not that surprising. I don't think low volume, high quality production with metal and other modern materials in a Western country comes cheap.
I'm supprised people here are not more open minded to different design ideas and different materials.

Chris why on earth would you be surprised by this thread? I had a professor once that said "You don't make art, you sell it. There are thousands of people that can paint, most of them are starving. The artists are the ones that can paint and eat."

[Trevor Walsh]

>>I'm supprised people here are not more open minded to different design ideas and different materials. <<

If it weren't so overpriced, I doubt many people would have a problem with it. It isn't about being open minded, it's being of the opinion that it's not right to take advantage of people who have no sense.

If I ever had a store where I sold overpriced stuff that was off the wall, I would make sure to criticize other prior straw customers for not being open minded, because there is a very large % of the population now who falls prey to that criticism pretty easily. People who think that doing something different makes them cutting edge (and who are deathly afraid of being called closed minded) are usually the easiest to take advantage of.


To that I would say the majority of goods we use today are UNDER priced, when buying products we often aren't paying for things like water and air pollution. Ikea has been able to figure out a way to ship a massive amounts of goods a very long way for (amortized) almost nothing. Try shipping your same piece of Ikea back to china and it will cost many hundreds of dollars.

Those unseen costs taken into account would drastically change the way we perceive the built environment, if you paid what the actual costs of shipping particle board furniture from China was worth, you'd change your mind and contract a local craftsman to build it out of solid wood I think.

[Steve Branam]

Give professor Google a whirl with with > e15 Backenzahn Stool <

You'd better get started, it's going to take a lot of 2x4's for you to make a thousand of these...

[Jim Koepke]

It isn't about being open minded, it's being of the opinion that it's not right to take advantage of people who have no sense.


Just the opposite of, "never give a sucker an even break."

Many of us do not follow that axiom.

jtk

[David Weaver]

Those unseen costs taken into account would drastically change the way we perceive the built environment, if you paid what the actual costs of shipping particle board furniture from China was worth, you'd change your mind and contract a local craftsman to build it out of solid wood I think.

There is a large leap in reasoning going on here somewhere by describing individual package rates as having some bearing on what I should perceive the value or a bulk-shipped item to be. The price of the item is what it is, individuals will buy based on that, not based on parcel post rates or other hypotheticals.

If ikea makes something for $80, and the same thing would be $500 locally, and it costs $200 parcel to ship it to china, nobody is going to determine that the market has made a huge mistake in pricing it at $80. People will buy it at $80 or they will not, but it's very unlikely that most people will decide that they should spend $500 instead of $80 if they are satisfied with the $80 item's value proposition. They'll go without instead if the choice is taken away.

Apples to oranges. Each thing (local vs. bulk imported) meets a different demand and demographic. There's no need to try to make an apples to apples comparison and tell the market (that has millions of data points and is very robust) why it is wrong about value.

[David Weaver]

Just the opposite of, "never give a sucker an even break."

Many of us do not follow that axiom.

jtk

I like that saying, Jim. Never heard it. One of my parents' favorite words was shyster - with the pa dutchy background in my area, ripping people off was frowned upon big time (that's probably no longer as true now that cultural differences don't have the staying power they did when you *had* to deal locally for most things). That's not to say there weren't shysters, though.

I like Tom's saying about selling art. Hits the nail on the head. We are focused on the making of things here, quality vs. price, etc. Hive is not concerned with that stuff, their effort is in selling - convincing the buyer that there is more to something than we see in it. I've had various conversations with folks about selling things they make, and I'll bet I've said a dozen times "you have to convince someone that it's art if you want to make any money with it".

[Jim Koepke]

I like that saying, Jim. Never heard it.


You must be young. It was the title of a W.C. Fields movie.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Never_Give_a_Sucker_an_Even_Break

jtk

[Jim Koepke]

Jim, I think you got it wrong, I wish I could "buy" a thousand of these and not break a sweat.

YES! YES! YES!

jtk

[David Weaver]

You must be young. It was the title of a W.C. Fields movie.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Never_Give_a_Sucker_an_Even_Break

jtk

In relative terms, yep, young compared to 1941. I like old movies, though - I'll add that one to the list of ones to find.

[Deane Allinson]

Remember people, there are some on this list that might have paid that much for a panther saw, an infill plane, a few small boards, or maybe even a dog. That's just as silly to some other people. As Sly said, Different strokes for different folks. As for me....I works hard, and I spends my time and money any ways I want to. I might even waste my time and money making something by hand.
Deane

[David Keller NC]

Remember people, there are some on this list that might have paid that much for a panther saw, an infill plane, a few small boards, or maybe even a dog. That's just as silly to some other people. As Sly said, Different strokes for different folks. As for me....I works hard, and I spends my time and money any ways I want to. I might even waste my time and money making something by hand.
Deane

Yeah, I have (infill planes). But I don't think the ridicule is over the absolute price, it's the fact that producing said item would be far, far cheaper than what is being asked, even if you "paid" yourself $75 an hour (or more). Unfortunately, I and most other folks cannot produce an infill plane for what a new one costs, or even a high-quality antique of Norris/Spiers/Mathieson ilk, assuming that we're truthful to ourselves about what time is worth....

Besides, ridiculing a stool that intentionally mimics a pulled tooth (ouch!), is made in a shoddy manner and is sold through a good deal of snobbery marketing is justified, IMO.

[Don C Peterson]

Remember people, there are some on this list that might have paid that much for a panther saw, an infill plane, a few small boards, or maybe even a dog. That's just as silly to some other people. As Sly said, Different strokes for different folks. As for me....I works hard, and I spends my time and money any ways I want to. I might even waste my time and money making something by hand.
Deane

I totally agree, one person's value proposition is not another's. However, I do get a strong sniff of snobbery mixed with snake oil when reading the descriptions of those products, and sometimes it's pretty hard to keep yourself from pointing out that the Emperor is running around in his birthday suit...