Career Change

[Terry Jurek]

I'm just curious how today's economy is affecting those that are in the woodworking business and/or craft-show circuit. I'm about to "retire" from my current profession and am looking to turn a hobby into a source of income. My parents did nothing but craft shows for years (carving walking sticks) and they did O.K. as far as money. They were never rich but they paid the bills, went on a lot of trips, and seemed to enjoy the freedom of their chosen career.

I've always enjoyed working with my hands and currently teach and do CAD/CAM and tool-room work. What I've enjoyed most is woodworking. I used to have a small shop and made a few pieces of furniture as a hobby but I've had a dream for years of making picture frames and small furniture items to either sell out of a shop or through craft shows.

Is anyone around here doing this sort of thing? And if so how is the economy treating you?

[Jay Jeffery]

Does running a business appeal to you? It doesn't really matter what your trade is, you will be a business man first and a whatever second.

I personally have no interest in starting a business. I've known too many people who have.

[Carroll Courtney]

Terry welcome to this fantastic site and I say thats a good question.In my simple mind reguardless of the economy there will always be people w/money and so far I just don't see to many restaurants closing down.If your getting ready to retire I'm guessing that you have all your ducks in a roll and your looking for something to keep you busy and out of your wife hair.Since you don't have to depend on this venture to keep a roof over your head then I say go for it and hit the craft shows to get your products out there and let people meet you making contacts.At first, the goal is to at lease break even covering the overhead until you get rolling then try making a profit.I think that alot of people that is in business started out working for someone else in one field are another then moved on to start their own.Good Luck and keep as posted----Carroll

[Marc Myers]

I think it depends on your skill level. If you are a capable woodworker vs an exceptional woodworker will have a vast difference on what you have the ability to charge for your pieces. Your ability directly corelates with the types of wood you are using and the final product. For example: a tissue box out of pine like your first high school woodshop project selling for $20 vs that same box out of tiger maple done by an accomplished craftsman selling for $200. If you are serious, I would recomment taking some woodworking classes to refine what you already know and improve on the skills you may be lacking. Join clubs and orgainzations relating to woodworking in your area. Other pros and hobbyist are a valuable resourse not just for the woodworking aspect, but the business side of it too. Sometimes, even top quality tools become available within these clubs for short money as the 'big guys' move up in equiptment. I think regardless of the economy, there are still buyers out there, you'll just have to work harder to find them. I also think this current downturn is the worst many of us will ever see, so if you can get yourself established in these darker times, you'll do just fine when things start to come around a bit more.

[mickey cassiba]

Hi Terry, and welcome! I've run my own business twice, only to discover that my boss was an idiot:o. I do best letting someone else run the show, while I ply my trade.
Good luck!

[Rich Engelhardt]

I've run my own business twice, only to discover that my boss was an idiot:o
LOL!
Yep - I discovered that very same thing my first time around running my own business.
I found out also, that "all the employees" were pretty worthless too ;).

Funny thing though - despite the hard economic times (~ 1982/1983 -ish), my company was pretty successful.
I probably could have made a go of it - but - self employment @ the time just wasn't for me & my heart just wasn't in it.

The second time around appears to be a little different. I'm easing into it and actually making some long range plans.
I'm retiring from my "regular job" in a few months and will be going ahead w/my plans.

The best advice I can give anyone that's entertaining thoughts of going it on their own:
- Get a good insurance agent.
- Get a good CPA.

[dennis thompson]

Terry
When I first retired I looked into Eureka Woodworks. It's a franchise that makes outdoor furniture. I didn't do anything with it, I did speak to them several times & they seemed like good people. There is a franchise fee which starts at $7195. Don't know if you want to spend that kind of money but it might be worth Googling them & taking a look at it. I think before I did that I'd just buy some plans for outdoor furniture, make a few things & go to some fairs and see how it goes. I'm a subscriber to Plans Now & they have a pretty good selection of outdoor furniture plans, if you subscribe you can get 20 plans for $30.
Good luck
Dennis

[Terry Jurek]

If your getting ready to retire...It's not an age related retirement, it's health related (I'm 38 years old). I don't want to get into details but I'll still be functional. I also want to be able to manage my own time and be able to involve my daughter with my life more often.


I'm guessing that you have all your ducks in a roll and your looking for something to keep you busy and out of your wife hairDucks is a strong word. But staying out of the wife's hair is definitely on the list of "To-Do's" after we move. It's up there with eating and breathing.


hit the craft showsThat's kind of the approach I think I'll try. The good thing is my parents haven't been out of the business for that long and still have a good idea of what shows really sell crafted merchandise.


I think it depends on your skill levelThis is true. I've been out of practice for a while, but I believe the underlying skills never really go away. I use the term "skill" lightly in my case. I'm planning on starting with the $20 items and working up to the $200. Some friends of mine did shows for years selling wooden rubber-band shooters, etc, and made a mint. (I'm not planning on building any rubber-band shooters I was just using that as an example.) I like the idea of the classes. I'd never really thought about taking woodworking classes to polish up or attain woodworking skills; it seems obvious now.


so if you can get yourself established in these darker times, you'll do just fine when things start to come around a bit moreExcellent point. I'm trying to think of the economy as this type of challenge. It'll be practice for the next time things get rough.


I've run my own business twice, only to discover that my boss was an idiot.Haha! I don't believe myself to be the best business person on the planet but I've had a couple of experiences with working for myself. The thing that held me back before was I was the sole provider and at the time my market was getting flooded with other people trying to do the same thing. I'm not a huge risk taker to begin with and at the time it didn't seem worth the headache. I was also doing something I really didn't like doing. This time around it's a little different. My wife is going to continue working and we have some money saved so I can get going without worrying too much about paying the bills.


despite the hard economic times (~ 1982/1983 -ish), my company was pretty successfulThat made me think a bit about what my parents were doing. That period is exactly when they started the craft shows. My step-dad was a sign painter during the decline of hand painted signs in the area we lived in. That also made me remember the 4-inch-too-short plaid pants I wore to school for a while...


...I'd just buy some plans for outdoor furniture, make a few things & go to some fairs and see how it goesThat's a good idea and in my case probably a sensible plan. I'll have a bit of time to test the waters and see how things are out there. I've already started scouting some of the woodworking sites for ideas that are within my "skill" level. I have a pretty good attention to detail (some call it OCD) and my experience in the tool-shop is good practice for just about anything requiring a bit of OCD, I mean attention to detail.


Thanks to everyone who took the time to reply. It's a sign of a good community when every reply offers valuable information. I wouldn't have believed it had I not seen it.

[Jesse Tutterrow]

Visit a few craft shows in your market area and see what is being offered, what is selling and the price. This will give you an idea if you want to take the plunge. I like to do higher end items and in Saint Louis there is not much of a market for them. A jewelry box that a friend sells in Dallas for around $300 would not sell here for $150. So, location is important.

[Don Jarvie]

Sounds like you have money coming in and if you have the health insurance covered your good to go.

[David Weaver]

My mother sells on the craft show circuit. She's retired also. It wasn't really a determinant in her retirement (she wasn't dependent on craft income) but she prefers to work on things that she can sell and make money regardless of whether or not she needs money. She did work part time on the stuff, probably 750 hours per year or more when she was still employed.

Like your parents probably learned, quite a long time ago when she started (25 years?), she realized that it wasn't about making something that she wanted to make and being picky about what she'd make, but instead making what people wanted to buy. Small stuff that has low cost to produce (less than 25% of sale price in material costs), appeals to a large number of people, and where perfection in production isn't the goal is what she does well on. I would guess that she makes more than the national average wage doing it on an hourly basis, and mostly because she has kept her eye on making what people want and stayed away from cumbersome projects that might be more interesting (she does do large one-offs sometimes, but not generally as a rule. Not surprisingly, those large one-offs are a struggle to make money for your time, but she does them on request. I am constantly surprised how much people think you *must* bend over backwards to make something for them and then screw around with your own time staying home when they're supposed to come over and pick up something that costs $60).

One big change in 25 years is how much it costs to set up at the established shows. There are several shows where it costs 10%+ of the cost of goods sold, and when I was a little kid running around from show to show with them on the weekends, that was unheard of. Still, the ability to sell thousands of dollars worth of stuff in a day and not screw around mailing little packages all over the place makes it worth it.

Since your parents were able to make a living at it, I'd listen very closely to them.

[Perry Holbrook]

Terry, I wish you good luck with your future plans. It is possible to make a living with crafts, but it is not easy. I do very few retail shows, (I wholesale to galleries) but when I do there are always a few newbies who have the same idea you are considering. Sometimes they make it, usually they don't.

One mistake that is common is pricing. My pricing theory is simple. Set a price that you feel a reasonable person would be willing to pay. Then figure your TOTAL cost and determine if you will be in business very long at that price.

I try to help crafters from time to time understand the business and marketing side of craft sales. PM me if you would like some more detailed help.

Perry

[Brian Elfert]

I ran my own business in the mid to late 90s. I wasn't very successful at it and never made any profit other than a very small salary. My only profit came when I sold the business.

It can be a lot of work to run a business that has to operate every day and be open every day. A craft business doesn't typically have to be open every day. You may not even have a published phone number. I liked some of the freedom of owning a business, but I like being an employee better as I make more money and don't have to worry about making payroll and all that.

[Lee Koepke]

We (my wife and I) have done several craft shows recently, and have a few scheduled here in May ... I'd like to consider becoming a 'travelling shower' maybe next year, spending the weekend at other parts of the county as sorta a vacation.

We are set up as a business, CPA insurance and all .... its a remnant of our retail operation we closed last year. The other thing we have done is rent a small 'booth' at a local antique/consignment store in town. That allows us a front for my work as well as beginning building local reputation / contacts. I have only been at the selling part of my craft for about a year, so I dont expect much (thus rarely disappointed).

One previous poster mentioned something thats still hard for me ... not making what I like, but making what will sell. I do woodworking because I like it, so its hard for me to make something I dont care for.....

Turning a hobby into a business is a sure way to ruin the fun of a hobby!!!!!

[Jim Koepke]

Terry,

Welcome to the Creek. Your location is not mentioned, but it likely has opportunities just like so many other areas.

Close to me in Portland, OR they have the "Portland Saturday Market" from March to December. All of the items are made by the people selling them. Of course, this may require more qualifying than many craft shows, but it means less traveling if there is a similar venue close to you. Also, if there are regular venues near your home, it is much easier to give a business card with an email address incase someone may want to buy something at a later time.

Some local farmers markets will welcome crafts people.

What ever you do, good luck.

Since this is something my wife and I are thinking of doing I am also interested in hearing about your experience.

jtk

[Karl Card]

A wise man once told me: do what you love, do it with passion, everything else will fall into place. The same difference as a person opening up a day care because they want to make money, it wont work if they do not like kids vs. opening a daycare first because you like kids, well, then everythng else should fall into place - within reason...

[Pat Germain]

Based on my observations and talking with craft fair sellers, you can make some money by hot-gluing together some very cheap pieces and selling them a low price. But if you spend some time on a very well made, hand-crafted woodworking piece, a craft show is not the place to sell it at a profit. People who visit craft shows might love to look at beautiful, hand-crafted woodworking. But by and large, they're not going to drop the required cash to buy it.

[Perry Holbrook]

Based on my observations and talking with craft fair sellers, you can make some money by hot-gluing together some very cheap pieces and selling them a low price. But if you spend some time on a very well made, hand-crafted woodworking piece, a craft show is not the place to sell it at a profit. People who visit craft shows might love to look at beautiful, hand-crafted woodworking. But by and large, they're not going to drop the required cash to buy it.

This may be true with some craft fairs, but there are plenty of high quality shows where the average booth sales are between $5K and $10K. If you make high quality items it is possible to find buyers, you just need to be above average at sales and marketing.

Perry

[Pat Germain]

This may be true with some craft fairs, but there are plenty of high quality shows where the average booth sales are between $5K and $10K. If you make high quality items it is possible to find buyers, you just need to be above average at sales and marketing.

Perry

Wow, those aren't your typical craft show! I wasn't aware of such shows.

Indeed, it possible to find buyers willing to pay for quality work. You just won't find them at a typical craft show.

[David Weaver]

People who visit craft shows might love to look at beautiful, hand-crafted woodworking. But by and large, they're not going to drop the required cash to buy it.

Bingo - I think my dad has spent hundreds of hours gluing together pins or putting wire through little hangy things my mother has made. People going to the craft shows are looking for trinkets to buy as gifts, or thrifty little objects to stick on the fridge, etc. My mother will sell larger items from time to time, but they aren't $500 items, they're more like $75-$100. It takes her less time and thought to paint and put together a $2 pin 50 times than it does to locate an old ironing board and paint some santa claus or something on it, and it's easier to sell.

Most (nearly all) of the buyers would have no appreciation for a $300+ box with dovetailed sides and some inlay work. They would just say "wow...that box is $300".

Figuring out what people want is an iterative process.

The other thing my parents do is raid auctions and buy all of the old tinware, enamelware, cookware and crates they can find. It's usually in boxes for less than $1 per piece, and my mother can paint a couple of them an hour and flip them over for $15 per and sell them as fast as she can take money at a show. If you can tap in to what people want at a price they will pay, you don't have to do any marketing or convincing, you just set up and exchange goods for money.

None of it is my cup of tea, but it's what people at craft shows want, and it competes very well (price point, etc) with the booths that have imported junk that's supposedly hand painted or stenciled.

Like Pat says, I haven't seen a lot of the shows like Perry is talking about, though there is a high end show here every year where people could presumably fetch that kind of money - the people who set up the booths have to travel to go to those shows, and that costs money. If you can appeal to the masses, you can unload in the same $$ amounts as perry is talking about at some of the higher volume shows and only have to go to a few and not travel so far.

[Perry Holbrook]

We are probably talking about 2 different things when we say "craft show". I would never do a show that allows any imported goods to be sold or that are not hand made by the artist. The shows I do are probably better termed "fine craft show". There are actually hundreds of such shows, most are on the 2 coasts. At our local Southern Highlands Craft Guild craft fair held 2 times each year, the average booth sales is over $5k. A friend makes unique rockers, priced around $3500, he usually sells 10 to 12 each show, the jewelers have a bad show if they are not over $10K.

Pick up a copy of Niche magazine or American Crafts magazine, there will be ads for these kind of shows in there. If there is one near you, attend it and you will see what I am taking about.

Perry

[Charles McKinley]

Perry hit the nail on the head. The dividing line a friend of mine use was Craft Show and Art show.She made jewlery and some musical insturments.

She subscribed to Sunshine Artist: http://www.sunshineartist.com/

She said the worse the economy the better she did with her nicer work as the more affluent were the ones left with disposable income. YMMV

She also said she did not mind paying the percentage of sale shows as they were the ones with the best advertising and attendence and where she made the most money.

There are a lot of variables, location, skill set, interest and CAPITAL. Do your homework and make your own decisions. I hope it works out well for you and enjoy the time with you daughter.

[Karl Card]

Here in Evansville a craft show is not bad for medium to low end woodworking. But if you want to sell high end wood items go to an art show. Most art people have "deeper" pockets and dont mind cutting loose of some funds for something they like. This deal is just like anything else, what works in one city may not work in every other city.. We even have some flea markets that cater to better items and then we also have flea markets that really cater to the "hot glue" items...