tablesaw horsepower

[markus shaffer]

I recently met another woodworker with a powermatic 66. He was pretty excited about having the 5 horsepower motor. In the past I've met a few other people who also were fairly preoccupied with the amount of horsepower their saws have. I happen to have the three horsepower powermatic and it's always served me really well.. It's never bogged down or given me any reason to think that it wasn't powerful enough even when ripping 3" thick maple and walnut. This is a saw I use almost daily and not for light duty work. Woodworking pays my bills, so it sees quite a bit of use. Anyway, I'm curious what other people think. Does the extra horsepower really matter all that much? Seems to me it's similar to the people I see driving Hummers around Manhattan. A bit overkill.. Perhaps that is a poor analogy though. I mean no offense to those with bigger motors.

-markus

[Jim Izat]

I thought about the five hp option when I bought my saw, and the reason in my mind was that, with the 5hp, the saw would rarely be taxed to it's full capacity and therefore might last longer. It wasn't enough to get me to spend the extra 200 though.

Just a thought.

Jim

[Kirk (KC) Constable]

We bought the 5HP Grizzly for the mesquite outfit. I can say many unkind things about that saw, but I've never had any complaint with the power. I can't recall that we've ever bogged it down.

KC

[John Wadsworth]

No, I've never bogged my 3HP PM66 down, not even close. And the 5HP isn't just another $200--it's a whole re-wiring job for the shop. I suppose if I had had 3-phase power available I might have given it a second thought--but no. I just don't need it.

[Dennis McDonaugh]

I've used a 5hp tablesaw in different woodshops as I moved around the Air Force and now I have a 3hp at home and I can't tell the difference. Thick or thin they both cut right through the toughest wood and the occasional kickback is capable of inflicting serious injury on the unsuspecting woodworker upgrading from a contractor saw.

[Ted Shrader]

Markus-

I have the PM 66 3Hp version, too. Haven't slowed it down with anything yet.

Ted

[Bruce Page]

Originally posted by markus shaffer
I happen to have the three horsepower powermatic and it's always served me really well.. It's never bogged down or given me any reason to think that it wasn't powerful enough even when ripping 3" thick maple and walnut.
-markus

Markus, That pretty much says it all.
I have 3hp in my unisaw and I'ne never felt the need for 5. 3hp has done everything that I've asked without even the smallest wimper.

Good judgment comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgment. – Unattributed

[Russ Filtz]

One other thing to worry about is kickback. While the bigger motor may power through better, but if it ever does kickback you've got a lot more pwer being thrown at you! If a 1-1/2 to 3 hp motor does the job, I wouldn't upgrade to the 5 just for more power.

[Steven Wilson]

I too have the 3Hp PM66 and would only consider the 5Hp model if I were going to use a Powerfeeder with it. For hand feeding 3HP is enough.

[Steve Clardy]

to upgrade to 5 hp, I don't think it's necessary with most cabinet saw situtations. My 3 hp will rip 6/4 oak about as fast as you want to push it.

[Jerry Hazen]

Originally posted by Russ Filtz
While the bigger motor may power through better, but if it ever does kickback you've got a lot more pwer being thrown at you!

Hi Russ,

This isn't the case. The blades should be spinning at the same speed (assuming it isn't bogged down at that moment) so kickback would be the same.

Not a big deal at all, but I just don't want anybody getting the idea that an underpowered 1hp saw is somehow safer than a 3hp saw. It's more likely the reverse. Motors that bog down tempt people into unsafe practices.

Jerry

[Glen Smith]

Jerry,

I'm far from an expert but I think the benefit of a lower powered motor in "reducing" kickback is the bog down point.

Indeed the RPM of the blade should be identical for each different hp (1 1/2, 2, 3, 5). But the less power the better the chance that the motor will stall before throwing the board. Not an ideal situation to be sure, but one more chance to keep things under control.

Glen Smith

[Jerry Hazen]

I agree that a lower power motor might bog down more than a higher power motor before kickback, and in those cases would throw the board at a slower speed. However, not all kickback happens when the motor bog downs - in those cases it makes no difference. I mostly just don't want anyone claiming that a lower power saw motor is somehow safer than a higher power one. Maybe from an electrical shock perspective though ;)

[Peter Gregory]

I'm pretty sure that no one of us has an idea of what the real differences are between a 3hp and 5hp table saw. I think we can agree that a 3hp works pretty darn well in most applications. I bothers my engineer mindset that clearly this is based on a few unscientific samples that really aren't studied.

This is the weakest part of a BBS, everyone wants to justify their equipment as the optimum price/performance. What router to buy? I own the .... so get that one. Etc, etc. Makes the mag reviews seem down right scientific, at least they have tried more than 2.

I'll go do some work and try to justify my expensive equipment by having a result. Sorry for the rant.

[Russ Filtz]

I have to chime back on the power issue. Sure the blades are spinning at the same speed, and with a relatively light piece a kickback would approximate that speed (with no binding). However, as the weight of the workpiece increases you ARE talking about the force behind the blade, not just the momentum of the spinning blade. F=MA.

With more power/force/torque behind the blade, you have more acceleration available to move bigger workpieces. This is the real danger. The larger motors can kickback larger pieces! A smaller motor would just bind. With small pieces, the kickback would be similar.

Yes, I are an engineer!

[Paul Geer]

I have to say a 3HP Table saw is enough power for me, I work with a 5HP TS at work and beleive me there is a difference between the two, both have use a 10" blade, that 5HP does not slow down at all like a 3HP can with the same work load, kinda scary at times, but we got the dang thang and will keep it. I have a 3HP TS at the home shop and it works great for all operations including dado blade work. Just take it easy with the feed and you got it!

[Jerry Hazen]

So you're saying that a saw with a larger motor has the capability of kicking back a larger piece. I can't disagree with that. However most anecdotal kickback stories I've heard about that caused injury didn't involve large pieces, but small ones that pierce into the chest or abdomen rather than, say, knocking the person over. So I guess we just disagree on the premise. I'm assuming that the dangerous kickback will be just as sufficiently propelled by the 3hp saw as by the 5hp saw. But I agree that a 5hp saw could kickback a piece that a 3hp saw couldn't, or kickback some certain pieces faster than a 3hp saw.

It's just that it appeared you were making a blanket statement that kickbacks from a 5hp saw will always carry more momentum than kickbacks from a 3hp saw. This will actually only be the case in a certain set of circumstances. We apparently disagree on the frequency and resulting danger associated with those circumstances.

Jerry

[Russ Filtz]

I guess I wasn't making a blanket statement. Some people feel the 5 hp is actually safer since it can power through some bind-ups that might make a lower power machine kick.

I'd prefer to get full binds than to get clocked by a huge chunk of wood! The smaller penetrating kickbacks are everyones worry I guess.

P.S. I'm only running a dinky 1-1/2 hp contractor saw anyway! Still have to worry even with that!

[Keith Outten]

I thought that HP was relative to feed rate and blade diameter.

Larger motors usually can accomodate larger blades, this increases production since you can feed faster as there are more cuts per revolution of the blade.

Smaller motors tend to slow down when the feed rate is to high and thus the cuts per revolution are reduced especially when a smaller blade is used, also the motor will tend to overheat.

All motors share the same problems with kickback as kickback is most often the result of improper technique and not HP.

[Jamie Buxton]

I have a 30 year old Unisaw with a 1 1/2 horse motor. It has been making furniture and cabinets all those years, and has done it just fine. (I'm a full-time woodworker.) The only time it bogs down is when I'm doing something really stupid which I should stop immediately -- like using a dull blade, or ripping lumber that is trying to pinch the kerf closed on the back of the blade. I've never felt any need to get 3 horsepower, let alone 5!

[Cam.Hedrick]

kickback a piece of 3/4" x 2" red oak and send it through a 2x4 edgeway and then pierce an 8 x 16 block wall. I saw a piece of black walnut about the same size kicked back by a 7 1/2 hp commercial saw at a friends shop and did about the same damage. I'd say the difference is minimal. I have bogged down my 3 hp UNISAW ripping 12/4 cherry with a new Forrest ripping blade, slowed down the feed rate and it worked out fine. I made my living building cabinets and furniture for 12 years with that saw and have never had it kickback....mostly it's tuning of the saw. I tune a saw like it's for machining steel and keep them tuned.
By the way you can use a power feeder on a 3 hp saw with no problems...done it for years the run dados on repetitive work.
3hp is enough in my humble opinion.:)

[Steve Clardy]

going here. Gotta add to this one.

Say, if I can manage to get my ol 426 Hemi under my Grizzly cabinet saw, wonder what the stats on kickback would be? Same 10" blade, etc. Any takers?
Steve:D :D :D