Molding Planes

[John Tallyn]

In my attempt to utilize more hand tools and planes, I'm trying to collect a few old wooden molding planes. Has anyone done business with these folks, any thoughts as to whether their prices/quality is reliable? Do any of you have recommendations as far as dealers for old wooden molding planes?
https://www.thebestthings.com/vintools.htm

thanks
John

[Pam Niedermayer]

My three main sources are the bay, Andrew Stephens (http://www.toolbazaar.co.uk/tools.asp), and Tony Murland (http://www.antiquetools.co.uk/toolbox.php?category=Latest%20tools). Often Andy or Tony are the only ones who have an item I want for anything approaching a reasonable price, such as the 3 sets of shell bits I bought from Andy very recently and the draw bore pins from Tony. Only real problem these days is that the British Commonwealth has seemingly gone crazy on shipping costs, so I often have to ask them to break up sets to save weight. Australia is simply out of the question.

The Best Things seems to have quality old tools, but at a price, just like Jim Bode (he's 2lshark on the bay).

Pam

[David Keller NC]

John - There is little comparison between Lee Richmond of The Best Things and Jim Bode, nor Tony Murland for that matter. Specifically, Lee is honest to a fault - to the point of going way overboard. He makes no attempt to "improve" the tools that he sells by altering them, mating them with spare parts, or any of the other shenanigans that many British and American tools dealers are infamous for. He also knows his stuff - there are few others that would know more about tools in general, and molding planes in particular.

Lee is very easy to talk to - just call him and specify what you're looking for (users vs. collectibles). It's highly likely that he will have it, as he doesn't list his entire inventory on his site.

It may be best to avoid Jim Bode for now. Jim is indeed a nice guy to meet in person, but he doesn't know nearly what some of the others like Lee Richmond and Patrick Leach do, and pieces on his site are often badly mis-described, and in some cases vastly overpriced compared to the general market.

Disclosure - I have no business relationship to gain from any of these tool dealers, but I have bought many thousands of dollars in tools from Lee, and am happy with every one of those purchases. Not so much with a few other tool dealers.

[John Tallyn]

I appreciate the info from both of you, I have dealt several times with Patrick Leach in the past, and have been very happy each time. I feel he describes his tools honestly, and each time the tool has been exactly in the condition he said it would be. I have in the past, bought some tools from UK companies, but the cost of shipping to the US is thru the roof. I bought one plane from Lee, waiting for it to arrive. I do feel some of his prices are a little high, but, and it's a bit but, if he is honest and truthful that goes a long way with me.
Thanks
John

[Pam Niedermayer]

I'm not going to disagree with David's characterization of Lee Richmond. Every time I've looked at his site, what's there seems to be fine product; but it so happens I haven't found what I was looking for, which is a statement about me and my somewhat odd needs as much as about Richmond.

However, neither Tony nor Andy has ever lied to me, and they represent their tools honestly and correctly, I'm always very happy when their tools arrive.

Pam

[David Weaver]

In my attempt to utilize more hand tools and planes, I'm trying to collect a few old wooden molding planes. Has anyone done business with these folks, any thoughts as to whether their prices/quality is reliable? Do any of you have recommendations as far as dealers for old wooden molding planes?
https://www.thebestthings.com/vintools.htm

thanks
John

What are you looking for, specific profiles, or hollows and rounds? If you're just looking for hollows and rounds, it'll probably take less time to make them than find a good used set, at least good in the sense that they'd be as good as what you'd make. A lot of old planes, unless they're coming from a user and still in use - a lot of them require quite a bit of refurbishment to get them going. That can easily be half as much time as it would take to make a nice straight new tight plane from scratch.

[John Tallyn]

Dave, I'm primarily looking for some molding planes with older profiles. I would certainly be interested in making some hollow and rounds. Do you know of a good source of info on making these? Any info would be appreciated.
Thanks
John

[David Weaver]

Larry Williams's video is the best I've seen. If the cost of the video and floats seems steep, you can make the floats and sell the video once you've learned to make the planes.

Or you can make the easy floats and buy the ones that are harder to make (edge floats and cheek floats are easy to make, the side floats are not as easy due to the amount of filing).

You can make the irons out of 1/8th O1 with a hacksaw and file (very accurately, too) and you can taper them with a belt sander if you tack them to a block with CA glue. Total cost of making a plane, if the lumber costs you about $10 a plane with shipping, is about $15 plus whatever consumables you might use (which should be a couple of bucks). You can make very very nice planes, and you can pop a pair out in a day in the shop, irons and all.

[john brenton]

Jim Bode may be pricey, but I have had some success with his "make offer" button on his ebay store "2LShark". I think I've purchased about 5 or 6 $40-$80 items from him, and all of them were pretty dramatically reduced with the offer. I've never purchased a plane from him...although the compass plane he has up now looks pretty sweet.

It's just a question of setting a saved search on ebay and watching patiently for a few months. Minty ogees and other classic profiles come up all the time.


Dave, I'm primarily looking for some molding planes with older profiles. I would certainly be interested in making some hollow and rounds. Do you know of a good source of info on making these? Any info would be appreciated.
Thanks
John

[Zach Dillinger]

Lee Richmond is one of very few people that I buy molding planes from, outside of the few I find at antique stores and flea markets. I'm really looking forward to visiting his store next week when I deliver the beds I built for him and his daughter.

[John Tallyn]

Larry Williams's video is the best I've seen. If the cost of the video and floats seems steep, you can make the floats and sell the video once you've learned to make the planes.

Or you can make the easy floats and buy the ones that are harder to make (edge floats and cheek floats are easy to make, the side floats are not as easy due to the amount of filing).

You can make the irons out of 1/8th O1 with a hacksaw and file (very accurately, too) and you can taper them with a belt sander if you tack them to a block with CA glue. Total cost of making a plane, if the lumber costs you about $10 a plane with shipping, is about $15 plus whatever consumables you might use (which should be a couple of bucks). You can make very very nice planes, and you can pop a pair out in a day in the shop, irons and all.
thanks for the info

[Andrew Yang]

Might consider Matt Bickford (http://www.msbickford.com/). He's a really decent, and honest guy. Maybe too honest to become a successful salesman, but he makes really nice molding planes and he's completely up front on what you need to get started. In his opinion to get into it, you need a way to cut rabbets, and a round/hollow pair. He figures that gets you to >50 different profiles. Adding in an additional pair gets you up over 150 different profiles. This assumes you need moldings within a particular size range.

[Trevor Walsh]

For what it's worth I've been happy with the handful of chisels and carving tools I've gotten from Jim Bode. Matt is also a great guy, I met him at an LN event and we spoke at some length about a molding plane I was building at the time. Also showed me how to run a rabbet off of a cutting gage, super guy.

[Joshua Clark]

If you are looking to buy a molding plane to use you want to make sure you buy from someone who knows what to look for in a user molding plane. There are a lot of fatal flaws in molding planes that the casual seller on eBay could miss. I would guarantee that Jim Bode, Patrick, Tony Murland, and Matt (does he sell vintage or just new?) would be able to pick out a good user for you. I haven't done business with Jim before, but I know him personally and he's a good guy. I guarantee that he would stand behind anything he sells, as would any of the other dealers I've mentioned. Tony certainly has the pick of the good British planes (which I love) over there in England, but between the crummy exchange rate and the huge shipping costs, buying tools from the UK is tough. The opposite is also true- with the weak dollar and generally inexpensive USPS International rates, I'm selling a much larger portion of my tools to international customers.

John asked about making molding planes- the best reference by far is the Lie Nielsen DVD featuring Larry Williams. It is called " Making Traditional Side Escapement Planes - Larry Williams"

Good luck! Molding planes are a lot of fun. And quite addictive.

Josh

[David Keller NC]

One other comment, John - What you're paying for on Lee's site (and Patrick Leach's e-mail list) is expertise and a discerning eye. Personally, and for someone just getting started with molding planes that does not care to learn to make his own nor pay the relatively high cost of new ones (made by Old Street Tools, Matt Bickford, D.L. Barrett and Sons, & Philly Planes), I think this a good middle road - you know what you're buying, and the learning curve for knowing what might need to be done to make the planes perform flawlessly is much less steep than flea market finds.

That said, the flea market is worth a shot if you just want to find a working hollow/round pair. These are some of the most common profiles, and the investment will be quite modest. Full and half sets of H&Rs are much more difficult - you will need to either patronize one of the tool dealers for that or order new. It's possible to find a set once in a blue moon at an estate sale or a flea market, but it's rare. However, you absolutely do not need a full or half set of H&Rs to get started with molding planes - a couple of usable pairs will get you started, along with either a plow plane or a couple of rabbet planes.

I'd suggest buying Don McConnel's DVDs from Lie-Nielsen - Traditional Molding Techniques, The Basics; Traditional Molding techniques, Cornice Moldings, and Sharpening Profiled Hand Tools (Larry williams). these 3 dvds will get you 1) enough knowledge to know what you will need in molding planes to get started and 2) the knowledge to know how to properly sharpen molding planes, and possibly re-profile the blades. This last part is important. Unless a used molding plane has had the wedge or iron replaced, the stock is badly warped or the bed gouged and worn, it will work very well. But the iron must be properly profiled to the bed, and it must be very sharp. Without these 2 things, your first molding plane experience is likely to be a frustrating one.

[Andrew Yang]

To add to David's comments. The third thing (according to Matt) is good stock selection, and close attention to grain direction (which I guess is a given).

[David Weaver]

I mumbled something about tapering irons (albeit just a minimal amount) and got a PM. since I can't attach images to PMs, I figured I'd put something together and throw it up here for anyone else making their own irons (you can cut a rough iron out of 1/8th O1 steel with an 18 tpi hacksaw blade very quickly).

Here's what I did to taper, and I did this because I'm cheap and I didn't want to pay for tapered blanks.

Just a block of wood that's flattened, routered/chiseled. I use an 80 grit belt and just go by feel with your hands where you want to take metal off - it takes very little taper to make the iron work much better than it does with no taper. I might screw around for just a couple of minutes to taper an iron. It takes very little skill to make a useful taper like this (just don't try to pick the iron out by hand - it'll be really hot when you're done - i pop them out with an old dull chisel). If you're having reservations about how you could lean the iron around and make the top all out of flat - it really doesn't happen. You just focus on keeping the metal on the belt and the wood not on the belt and it comes out very nicely.

(click on the picture to get an enlarged version)

George...look away....i know this could be offensive to anyone who has the means to do better.



192862

[John Tallyn]

One other comment, John - What you're paying for on Lee's site (and Patrick Leach's e-mail list) is expertise and a discerning eye. Personally, and for someone just getting started with molding planes that does not care to learn to make his own nor pay the relatively high cost of new ones (made by Old Street Tools, Matt Bickford, D.L. Barrett and Sons, & Philly Planes), I think this a good middle road - you know what you're buying, and the learning curve for knowing what might need to be done to make the planes perform flawlessly is much less steep than flea market finds.

That said, the flea market is worth a shot if you just want to find a working hollow/round pair. These are some of the most common profiles, and the investment will be quite modest. Full and half sets of H&Rs are much more difficult - you will need to either patronize one of the tool dealers for that or order new. It's possible to find a set once in a blue moon at an estate sale or a flea market, but it's rare. However, you absolutely do not need a full or half set of H&Rs to get started with molding planes - a couple of usable pairs will get you started, along with either a plow plane or a couple of rabbet planes.

I'd suggest buying Don McConnel's DVDs from Lie-Nielsen - Traditional Molding Techniques, The Basics; Traditional Molding techniques, Cornice Moldings, and Sharpening Profiled Hand Tools (Larry williams). these 3 dvds will get you 1) enough knowledge to know what you will need in molding planes to get started and 2) the knowledge to know how to properly sharpen molding planes, and possibly re-profile the blades. This last part is important. Unless a used molding plane has had the wedge or iron replaced, the stock is badly warped or the bed gouged and worn, it will work very well. But the iron must be properly profiled to the bed, and it must be very sharp. Without these 2 things, your first molding plane experience is likely to be a frustrating one.
Dave, appreciate the info, I did order those 3 DVD's this am so I can start learning more, and avoid screwing anything up more than normal. I am going to start hitting up some of the auction houses around Boise, but want to take a look at the DVDs first so I dont buy unusable junk. Not sure I want to start building planes right now, I have enough trouble getting enough time in the shop as it is.
Thanks

[Jim Belair]

Speaking of hollows & rounds, I'll put a plug in for Matt Bickford's blog Musings from Big Pink. There he gives detailed instructions on how to make many moldings using H&R's. I had no idea they were so versatile.
http://musingsfrombigpink.blogspot.com/

Jim B