Making Rhinestone Design Templates

[Ron Thompson]

If you want to get into Rhinestone designs and templates, you might want to purchase a macro for Corel Draw X3, X4 or X5. The cost is $50.00 and looks like a very good add on.

Go to http://macromonster.com/index.php?mod=descr&id_desc=148&keyword=rstones&Submit=Go and watch the video.

I just purchased my copy and I'm waiting for the activation key.

This macro looks better than WinPCSign 2010 that I purchased just to get the Rhinestone designer module.

Click on the link, read all the information and don't forget to watch the video at the bottom of the page.

I think it's worth watching.

Ron "The Signguy" in San Jose

[Andrea Weissenseel]

good find, Tom - thank you for sharing it :) this comes right handy for the cover of my new mobile

[Larry Bratton]

Ron,
What material are you using to laser cut your templates from? I posted in that other forum asking if you had used Sticky Flock. A person that is distributor for that replied that it had a small amount of PVC in it. I bought that macro and my better half here wants to combine it (doing rhinestones) with the new sublimation ability we just got. I am waiting on the activation key.

[Ron Thompson]

Larry,

I've been doing a little research on Rhinestones and templates. I'm told that "Oil Board" can work and also be cut using a laser. I just received some sample oil board from Uline. One more note, It seems that when you cut the holes in the template material, make the a little larger . A 6ss 2mm cut the hole 2.5mm.

And don't forget Uline will send you samples of the oil board material.

Ron in San Jose

[Ron Thompson]

Here's the YouTube video of a template being cut on a laser.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSnK8uyUBuI&feature=related

Ron

The Oil Board from Uline is part number S-1868 and costs around $100 for a case. I'll try to find cheaper and smaller quanities.

Ron

[Larry Bratton]

Ron,
I, like you, have some interest in it. It seems that it is pretty popular in the garment circles. I was wondering why you couldn't cut a template out of acrylic? You would still need something to adhere to the stones to transfer them to the garment and hold them in place while the are in the press. Seems that the Sticky Flock stuff would be a good system if it were PVC free. It apparently has a miniscule amount in it, so I don't know if cutting it in small quantities would be a problem or not. Oilboard may be the way to go.

Edit: I wonder what type of adhesive tape that is that they show in the video?
2nd Edit : Here's the answer:
RST-Transtape
The rhinestone tape is applied to the rhinestone stencil/backing board template to allow the rhinestone design to be easily transferred from the template to garment for heat pressing.

The Graphtec Rhinestone Hotfix Transfer Tape is available in 19.7” x 32.8 ft. rolls.
from Bestblanks. I'm sure others also.

[Ron Thompson]

Larry,

Jeff from macromonster just posted an update at the T-Shirt Forum about the rStone Macro. He say:

http://www.t-shirtforums.com/images/icons/icon1.gif Re: Rhinestone Design Software
http://www.t-shirtforums.com/styles/tf/misc/quotes/quot-top-left.gifQuote:http://www.t-shirtforums.com/styles/tf/misc/quotes/quot-top-right.gifhttp://www.t-shirtforums.com/styles/tf/misc/quotes/quot-by-left.gifOriginally Posted by signguy.ronhttp://www.t-shirtforums.com/styles/tf/misc/quotes/quot-by-right.gifhttp://www.t-shirtforums.com/styles/tf/misc/quotes/quot-top-right-10.gifWatch the video at the bottom of the page... http://www.t-shirtforums.com/styles/tf/misc/quotes/quot-bot-left.gifhttp://www.t-shirtforums.com/styles/tf/misc/quotes/quot-bot-right.gifThanks for the kind words and interest. One tip: at youtube, one can watch the vid in full screen to see details more easily.

We're rather open for suggestions to make this tool even more powerful for rhinestone designers. I expect we'll have several interesting - and free - updates for this initial release based on the feedback of the commercial users found here.

I intend to add more items such as metal studs, conchos etc for those making Western / rock & roll clothes. Also, more background textures, such as common shades of cotton.
__________________
Jeff Harrison
macromonster.com (http://macromonster.com/)

Ron Thompson

[Larry Bratton]

Larry,

Jeff from macromonster just posted an update at the T-Shirt Forum about the rStone Macro. He say:

http://www.t-shirtforums.com/images/icons/icon1.gif Re: Rhinestone Design Software
http://www.t-shirtforums.com/styles/tf/misc/quotes/quot-top-left.gifQuote:http://www.t-shirtforums.com/styles/tf/misc/quotes/quot-top-right.gifhttp://www.t-shirtforums.com/styles/tf/misc/quotes/quot-by-left.gifOriginally Posted by signguy.ronhttp://www.t-shirtforums.com/styles/tf/misc/quotes/quot-by-right.gifhttp://www.t-shirtforums.com/styles/tf/misc/quotes/quot-top-right-10.gifWatch the video at the bottom of the page... http://www.t-shirtforums.com/styles/tf/misc/quotes/quot-bot-left.gifhttp://www.t-shirtforums.com/styles/tf/misc/quotes/quot-bot-right.gifThanks for the kind words and interest. One tip: at youtube, one can watch the vid in full screen to see details more easily.

We're rather open for suggestions to make this tool even more powerful for rhinestone designers. I expect we'll have several interesting - and free - updates for this initial release based on the feedback of the commercial users found here.

I intend to add more items such as metal studs, conchos etc for those making Western / rock & roll clothes. Also, more background textures, such as common shades of cotton.
__________________
Jeff Harrison
macromonster.com (http://macromonster.com/)

Ron Thompson

Ron, I got him to change the outlines on the ellipses to hairlines. They were like a half a point so the laser wouldn't cut them nor the plotters either. He's got some new stuff coming it looks like.

[Jeff Belany]

I know nothing about this product. I asume the stones have heat activated adhesive. Where are the best suppliers for these stones? How much inventory (colors, styles) do you think you would need to get started? This looks like something that would sell pretty well. I'm moving my storefront into a prime retail space (for a small town) so I am hoping for much more walk-in traffic. This might be a good profit area. Once you are set up, how much time would the average job take? (name or short saying) Any ideas would be helpful.

Jeff in northern Wisconsin

[Larry Bratton]

Jeff:
I am a newbie to the rhinestone thing. We have added sublimation to our little shop and my wife likes the idea of doing these as another add on. It looks like to me you would probably have to spend $200=250.00 to have a minimum supply of stones, for $500 or so you can have an assortment of 64,000 pieces. Your going to have to have a heat press, because the stones are hot fix. Prices are all over the board for them. The rest of the stuff is probably less than $100.00 for stencil material etc. If you want some education from some experienced people go over to the t-shirt forum and do some searches. Huge amount of info there on the subject. I can't give you a good answer about the time to do a job, that would have a good many variables. The process overall is pretty simple. Make a design with the software,manufacture a template in the laser, put the stones in the template,pick them up with transfer tape, put on the garment (or whatever) and heat press it. Check Youtube also.

[James Leonard]

Hi,

The best information on RhineStone design and heat pressing is at T-Shirt forums (google it). The lowest cost supplies are at ShineART, but they have pretty big minimum orders. Nova Rhinestone Depot (Los Angeles fashion district) has Saturday hours for those close to LA.

The typical template material will be a sandblast mask cut on a vlnyl cutter. For lasers oilboard works but I also saw GCC demonstrating simple card stock at ISS Long Beach.

That macro looks good, but be careful about rhinestone fills. REALLY non-trivial to do. Usually a lot of hand work. WinPCSign 2010 Pro is considered to be very good if you have followed some of the training videos available. There will also be a MUCH larger user community to draw from initially.

-James Leonard

[Larry Bratton]

Update about the Macro. Jeff has addressed some issues that people in the TS Forum had. I could not get my copy to show the simulated stones, he fixed that. When the stencil was created the ellipses had a .5 outline around them..he changed that to hairline. Some people needed to be able to resize the stone for the template to fit their individual needs..he fixed that, now a window pops up where you enter the size you want the ellipse to be. He also fixed it so that it can be minimized. These changes take place by downloading the latest version and installing it over the existing macro. It's pretty dang good for $50 and he has more updates on the way. The WinPCSign is a good program and you can cut from it directly to a plotter, but it also costs $200 bucks. Money is tight in my camp, so if I can accomplish what I want to do and save money that's for me.

[Joseph Tovar]

-Jeff, another place to pick up stones is from Divine Bling locate at www.divinebling.com (http://www.divinebling.com). Talk to Stephanie. She is very helpful and knowledgable about the different types of stones and accessories. She is also a distributor for Sticky Flock if you decide to go that route for template material. I believe they are working on a non-PVC version of Sticky Flock.

As for the Macro, I also have been playing with it and find it to be a very good alternative compared to the costly versions out there. Once issue that I'm having though is creating the mock-ups using the actual pictures of the stones. I think you're supposed to be able to convert the flat round circles to actual stones so you can show your client, but I can't seem to get this feature to work. Has anyone been ablet to convert the circles to stones?

Thanks!

[Larry Bratton]

Joseph,
Have you downloaded the latest version. It is 1.1.0.62. I had an issue with the rhinestone simulations in the first version. That has since been fixed. He has made some changes and updates. You can in fact switch from the simulation mode to the flat mode in the edit tab. Just click the appropriate icon. A couple of the changes..he fixed it so that the template circles have hairline outlines which is important for cutting. It will now minimize to keep it out of the way while your working on other things in your graphic. It now gives you the option to resize the circles when you activate the stencil function. As you probably know, rhinestones of Koren manufacturing are a little bit different than the Sworosky stones that the template is built on, so this is an important change.
To get the update, just open that PDF you got in the zipped file and click on the download link. When you get it, just unzip it and run setup. It will install right over the activated version you have. Don't delete anything or make it changes. Jeff says he will more than likely be making changes to it every week for a while, so check often.

Edit: Also, it's worthy to note that it has to be in "stone" mode when you create them. Bottom right corner, red icon next to the undo icon.

[Ruben Salcedo]

James,
you knew that ShineArt is a supplier of Nova?

Ruben

[Ron Thompson]

Jeff from macromonster has uploaded a new video showing fixes and also what this macro can do if you have Corel Draw X3, X4 or X5.

If you think you might be interested in making Rhinestone designs and templates, please wach this new video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YII2nLdD0Ig

Ron Thompson

[James Leonard]

James,
you knew that ShineArt is a supplier of Nova?

Ruben

Hi Ruben,

Originally yes. Now Nova imports directly. They are no longer part of ShineArt (according to both companies). At ISS Long Beach (2010) they were, but no longer.

-James

[Ruben Salcedo]

James,

thank you for the update, I did not know my news were old news. :o



Ruben

[Dee Gallo]

Jeff from macromonster has uploaded a new video showing fixes and also what this macro can do if you have Corel Draw X3, X4 or X5.

If you think you might be interested in making Rhinestone designs and templates, please wach this new video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YII2nLdD0Ig

Ron Thompson

Thanks for this, Ron, it's really interesting...quite a substantial macro! I have done a few rhinestone patterns for customers, but the old fashioned way, one circle at a time. This is cool! And so easy!

cheers, dee

[Larry Bratton]

I got me some oilboard, some stones, some transfer paper on the way and the macro. I'm about ready to start BLINGIN! whoooohoooo!
Cool macro..good deal for 50 bucks.

[Ron Thompson]

Update about the Macro. Jeff has addressed some issues that people in the TS Forum had. I could not get my copy to show the simulated stones, he fixed that. When the stencil was created the ellipses had a .5 outline around them..he changed that to hairline. Some people needed to be able to resize the stone for the template to fit their individual needs..he fixed that, now a window pops up where you enter the size you want the ellipse to be. He also fixed it so that it can be minimized. These changes take place by downloading the latest version and installing it over the existing macro. It's pretty dang good for $50 and he has more updates on the way. The WinPCSign is a good program and you can cut from it directly to a plotter, but it also costs $200 bucks. Money is tight in my camp, so if I can accomplish what I want to do and save money that's for me.


Larry and anyone else that might be interested.
Watch the new video posted on YouTube at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-wix3sPlso&feature=uploademail
It's a great way to make some money. Now all I need is to find a thin sandblast material with NO PCV that I can cut in my laser.

Ron "The SignGuy" Thompson

[Larry Bratton]

Hehehe..Ron..I am reading your posts in the ts forum. I responded this morning and told you that I hot wire tested the Sticky Flock and it showed no evidence of PVC. However, the lady that says she is the distribution manager for them, PM'd me and told me they had pulled the trigger on producing a "non pvc" version. I bought some oilboard and it cuts pretty good for templates too.

[Ron Thompson]

Larry,

Received this email from DivineBling dot com :

Hi, Ron!

We actually just decided to pull the trigger on making PVC-free Sticky Flock available for purchase. We’ve been testing new materials for quite some time and just wanted to be sure that these new materials would hold up and perform as well as the original Sticky Flock. We are confident that it will so we ordered a new color for the top and should receive the rest of the components later in the week and be able to start production by the weekend. If all goes as planned, we should have PVC-free available on my website sometime next week!

Please don’t hesitate to let me know if you have any other questions or concerns!

Thank you,
Stephanie Olson

Just what we need.

Ron

[Dan Hintz]

Ron,

It sounds like you've used that stuff so you'll likely know... are those dimples in the templates to hold the rhinestones? It seems somewhat logical to do it that way, but since you never see it from the side I couldn't tell.

[Ron Thompson]

Dan,
The letters you see in the video are 2 ply. The bottom layer is magnetic material. The top layer is similar to thin sand blast material (sticky flock) with holes cut through that layer. It also has some adhesive to stick to the magnetic material. The rhinestones drop into the holes right side up when brushed across the template.

Ron

[Dan Hintz]

Yeah, I figured there was magnetic material being used because there was zero shifting of the letters when he brushed over them... I was wondering more about the dimples themselves. I've never tried it, but I'm a bit surprised the stones all turn flat side down with some brushing and none get yanked out of the dimples. I'm assuming the dimples are just flat-bottomed...

[Larry Bratton]

Dan,
The letters you see in the video are 2 ply. The bottom layer is magnetic material. The top layer is similar to thin sand blast material (sticky flock) with holes cut through that layer. It also has some adhesive to stick to the magnetic material. The rhinestones drop into the holes right side up when brushed across the template.

Ron
The guy doing the video makes note that Chinese made stones don't brush into the template very well opposed to Korean or other higher quality stones. I believe he said that it was due to the roughness of the Chinese stones. The ones I got are Chinese (out of ignorance), I reckon I'll use them as far as they go and see how they work with what I have. I don't have a microfiber brush like he has. Mine is a pad type trim brush from Walmart, may have to upgrade that.

[Larry Bratton]

To those that are already attempting to laser cut rhinestone templates - I did some experimentation yesterday with the oilboard product. It cuts well but is hard to work with. Trouble is getting it to lie flat to the work service. I decided to try something else. I have some material on hand called Phototex. Is is a fairly stiff polyester fabric material, as thin, or maybe a bit thinner than the oilboard, but it has an adhesive that makes it a removable and replaceable material similar to the Sticky Flock stuff. It is also and was designed as a printable media. It cuts beautifully and safely in the laser for the templates. You can stick it down to do the layout and then pick it back up and stick it to most anything to save for re-use. It is thin enough that it holds the stone in it's place, but makes it very easy for the transfer tape to pick them up. If one wanted it thicker for some reason, just pull the backing material off one and bond it to another piece, then cut. I cut it 50p/90s/500f with 40 watts.

[Ruben Salcedo]

Larry,

I'm one of those that wanted to try the Oil board, my plan was/is to stick it to a acrylic base or similar that were study enough to keep it flat, my thinking was to adhere it to the acrylic with masking tape or blue masking tape on it's edges, then later just remove the tape and store the template if were something that I would use later, also making the acrylic reusable... have you try it this way?

Ruben

[Larry Bratton]

Rubin, I tried it like this, I took some Phototex and glued it to the back on the oilboard. I stuck that down to an acrylic piece I made for a workstation using the Phototex adhesive. It accomplished part of the mission until I put my transfer tape on them and tried to transfer. The friction of the oilboard and I think probably the adhesive I used to stick the oilboard to the Phototex would not allow the stones to come off the template properly. I also tried taping it down as you describe and I couldn't get it flat enough. So, I just said..why not try the Phototex alone and it worked very well.

I suppose if you wanted to, you could put the Phototex on the oilboard before you cut the template. I had already cut the oilboard template before I glued it up.

[Ruben Salcedo]

Larry,

where you buy Photo Tex? at Lexjet?, in comparison with oil board is expensive, it comes at 1.08 SQ Ft, oil board is about .13 cents SQ FT.

I have another idea, how about using cardboard material that is used for the back of picture frames? I believe is thick enough to keep it straight and flat and inexpensive, I would do it like this... cut the template on the oil board then spray it with adhesive lightly then adhere it to a piece of cardboard (or something similar, inexpensive) that is the same or a little larger than the oil board template?, I used to use mat board but I was doing it by rastering... it takes some time doing it this way, and time is money, with oil board is faster by vector cutting it I believe and inexpensive, I will order some samples and try it my self and see if it works.

Ruben

[Larry Bratton]

Rubin:
Oh yes, but have you compared it to Sticky Flock? It's $7.13 a sq/ft. Now THAT's expensive. I reckon if your looking for the cheapest, there are other things you can do as you suggest. I understand oilboard comes from Uline and they have a high minimum. In fact, the oilboard I have I bought from a person that had to purchase a biq quantity from U-line. I was just trying to come up with something that is somewhat comparable to Sticky Flock ,which sells the idea of the removable adhesive.

[Ruben Salcedo]

Larry,

holy molly, that is expensive! man this sticky flock probably is more expensive than the rhinestones itself, I have heard about it but I had no idea of the price, yes, at that price makes Photo Tex looks like a bargain.

About oil board... yes you have to buy a whole carton, the price is $97.00 is available in various sizes and quantity's, if I buy it I would buy the one that comes with 104 sheets of 24"x36" this makes the price per sheet at .93 cents, I'm hoping to make it work since I would be able to also use it to make jigs for various items that I engrave.

[Larry Bratton]

Rubin:
Yessir..it will make fine jigs and the like..it cuts great. I cut it at 40p/90s/500f with 40watts. It may cut with even lower power, I didn't experiment, I just took a shot at it and it worked. I cut the Phototex at 50p, it's pretty tough stuff and is a fabric.
The Sticky Flock is sold in 12" x 18" sheets - $10.95 a sheet. 1.5 sq/ft = $7.30 sq/ft. That's just one place but is from a good distributor, so the price should be competitive. That product is reputed to have PVC in it, however, I tested some of it with the hot copper wire test and it didn't show any evidence of it in the flame.
(Oh, and by the way, that's the 10 sheet price, if you just buy one it's $12.95)

[Ruben Salcedo]

Larry,

I just hope my competition uses Sticky Flock, they would go broke soon :D

Ruben

[Larry Bratton]

Have you purchased any stones yet? I bought some, but I think I messed up. The one's I got are Chinese and not the best of quality. I understand the Korean stones are much better. I did not realize the difference at the time. I mean, these work and look OK but I can tell they don't have a consistent size and some are stuck together.

[Ruben Salcedo]

Yes, Chinese are a no, no, Koreans are the most acceptable and an OK quality for everyday garments, but for high end garments Sarovsky are the best but also the most expensive, there are other quality's in between which are the stones with cuts, one of them are the Preciosa brand from Czech, the Korean stones are only cut in top and bottom the sides are just cast in molds hence the quality for reflecting light are lower, the more cuts a stone have the better they reflect light.

I have been getting my stones from DAS but I want to try the ones from Nova (http://www.novarhinestone.com/) in LA, actually I saw that they sale kits for lasers, who knows maybe they are good.

Ruben

[Larry Bratton]

I looked at the Nova site. Looks like a good place to buy. They are a bit distant from me but rhinestones can ship by mail. I get pretty quick service from California to here via the Post Office, usually about 3 days. I am going to use these Chinese stones I got for learning, then I'll upgrade when I buy some more. Just looking at the cost of the ready made transfers, you can almost buy them as cheap as you could make them if you consider the time involved.

[Ruben Salcedo]

I hope you don't have many Chinese stones, just keep in mind that provably you would have to re-size your designs if you're making your own stock, yes the ready made are very inexpensive but usually those are designs you see everywhere, the beauty of been able to make your own is that you can make a one of the kind and personalized, you could use the ready made designs in combination with names etc. so it looks personalized too, this way you will be able to charge accordingly.

[Larry Bratton]

No, I didn't invest very much in them until I saw more about how this would work. I did, in fact, change my sizing by .01 when I cut the template I did and it worked very well. I am also reading that a good many stoners are using a machine cut stone by Bella. You might want to check them out too at http://www.myshirtconnection.com/. This is fun stuff. Did you purchase the Macromonster Corel macro? It works really well I think for a $50 investment.

[Mike Null]

I don't make the rhinestone stuff but I do use oil board once in a while and I suspect it is all the same but I get mine from this company and it's very good.

http://www.customcutstencilco.com/machine.htm

BTW, how about some pictures?

[Ruben Salcedo]

Yes, I have heard about Bella before, there are a few M/C (Machine Cut) brands out there, to me bellow Sawrovsky are Preciosa and Bella, Nova used to carry Pellosa from ShineArt but it looks like they are importing their own M/C stones, Nova's M/C stone brand is Clarus, here is a video (http://youtu.be/dlnrdfGvOGM) from Nova where they try to show some of the differences of the stones (the video is not of good quality but you can have and idea).

No, I have not purchase the MM macro, (I don't like their policy) ...yes I know is very inexpensive and have some neat features for the price, I own SmartCut Pro from DAS and looking to upgrade to the newest program StoneCut Pro which it does all that SmartCut Pro do plus a lot more, not cheap at all, just the upgrade is going to cost me maybe 20 times more than MM macro, but also comes with a very unique features that will help saving a lot of time in the designing, also SotneCut Pro is more than just a rhinestone design program, you can cut direct from the program to a vinyl cutter, send jobs to a laser direct from it and y believe also rotary engravers, also you can vectorized raster images a lot better than in Corel, and many more features, to me is well worth the money.

[Larry Bratton]

Hehehe..your rhinestone work is a little more serious than mine. I am still in the experimental stages of this venture. One has to crawl before one walks and no way can I justify a big investment in this right now. I'll just continue down this path and see where it leads, then I'll go from there.

[Ruben Salcedo]

I understand, and I believe you're doing a good job in the learning curve, and it looks like MM is going to get better as it is, hang in there... before you know it you will be a Pro Rhinestoner. Have fun...

[Ruben Salcedo]

Hi Mike,

yes I think it's the same stuff, even the quantity's are the same as Uline, I'm not sure about the price, in Uline every pack of 50 lb are $97.00 how much do you pay there?


Ruben

[Mike Null]

Ruben

I did a job for a model making shop a few years ago when their laser went down and they gave me a supply but this company requires a large purchase as well. I was impressed at how well it vectors and how good it looks painted. I was making model cut outs for a new addition to the St. Louis Zoo and they came out looking great.

This stuff would be good for those who work with model trains as well. If you haven't already tried it ULine will send a couple of samples free.

[Ruben Salcedo]

Thank you, Mike,

I always knew that there was an Uline in the Los Angeles area but I never knew where exactly... well I just find out that their biggest distribution center in USA (750.000 sq/ft) is just 10 to 15 minutes away from my house. :)


Ruben

[Larry Bratton]

Rubin:
The lady I bought this oilboard from has a good bit of it left. She sold me like 20 pieces that are 12 x 24, I paid her $21.95 plus shipping. If you want some, I'll hook you up with her. She had to buy like a 100 pcs from U-line.

[Ruben Salcedo]

Larry,

thank you for the offer, like I said to Mike... I just found out the LA Uline distribution center is just 10 to 15 minutes away from me, so it looks like I will be saving in shipping, I will get the 50 lb carton with 104 24"x36" sheets, I may be considering to become an Oilboard supplier :), it's good that you didn't have to make the whole carton investment but it looks like the lady did a good mark up with you for a few cuts, her cost per 12"x24 was .31 cents you can get 3 12"x24" out one 24"x36" sheet, like I said before the cost of one of those sheets is just .93 cents.

Now Larry, I hope you didn't took my previous round down on the costs as offensive or thinking that I was trying to put you down, the thing is that I don't know if you buy it knowing that you were paying a premium or if the lady act like if she were making you a favor, if I didn't wanted to buy the whole carton I probably would pay the premium though.

Ruben

[Larry Bratton]

Oh Rubin, no, I just wanted a quick and easy way to try out the board. I just simply needed to give it a try without investing in a 100 pcs of it. I have no problem with her making a profit on it. It was a small sum of money and she did have to pack it and cut it. It comes in 24 x 36 pieces I think. If you can purchase a 100 pcs at a time and pay no freight except picking it up, then go for it.

[Brian Geers]

Larry,

I just hope my competition uses Sticky Flock, they would go broke soon :D

Ruben

Hello everyone : )

As the manufacturer of Sticky Flock, I wanted to point out the speed of production is much faster. Sticky Flock is geared towards mass production of transfers. Depending on which materials are being used, Sticky Flock can cut the production time in half. If you can get a 6 hour job done in 3 hours, you have to ask yourself how much is your time worth? If you only have to make a couple of transfers then Sticky Flock would be pricy.

There are other advantages to using Sticky Flock and if I can help anyone, let me know!

Brian Geers

[Ruben Salcedo]

Hello Brian,

first of all, welcome to the forum, I see that I had the honor of your first post been direct to me. :)

One thing I have not mention here is what type of business is mine, I'm in the personalized gifts business, some times I do quantities but most are on of a kind, hence I'm looking for the least expensive material to cut cost down, your product for a production environment makes more sense.

BTW, do you sale direct? and at better price? I may considerate for the occasional production runs. Thanks

Ruben

[Brian Geers]

Hello Brian,

first of all, welcome to the forum, I see that I had the honor of your first post been direct to me. :)

One thing I have not mention here is what type of business is mine, I'm in the personalized gifts business, some times I do quantities but most are on of a kind, hence I'm looking for the least expensive material to cut cost down, your product for a production environment makes more sense.

BTW, do you sale direct? and at better price? I may considerate for the occasional production runs. Thanks

Ruben

Hi Ruben,

Thank you for the welcome!

One thing that might save you a lot of money and cutting time is use Sticky Flock to make a complete upper case and lower case alphabet. Since SF templates can be used together at the same time on the workstation, you can make one of a kinds by just grabbing the letters you need.....

You wont have to buy or use any more template material just to make names : )

There are other things you can do with SF that would save you money also for example, you don't ever have to buy backing materials since SF uses a workstation.

Got to run!

Brian

[Ruben Salcedo]

Brian,

those are good tips, but you didn't answer my last question/s. thanks.


Ruben

[Brian Geers]

BTW, do you sale direct? and at better price? I may considerate for the occasional production runs.
Ruben

Ruben,

I missed this question above. Sticky Flock is offered through our distributors and they set the pricing. One of the members here at Sawmill Creek "Stephanie Olson" is a distributor at www.divinebling.com (http://www.divinebling.com) I think she has a sale going on right now?

On another note we are coming out with a PVC Free version and are looking for distributors for this new product. Do you have companies in mind, you prefer to work with, that could distribute the PVC Free version?

Thank you!

Brian

[Ruben Salcedo]

Brian,

I have not a problem buying from her if I ever decide to try it, I was just trying to see if there were a possibility to get it at a lower price.

Although, I have a vinyl cutter, been able to use it in a laser would be nice, the price for the new PVC free version will be the same price as the other?

Thank you.

Ruben

[Brian Geers]

The PVC Free is more expensive to produce but the price will be the same as the original. Hopefully the demand for PVC Free will help us to offer even lower prices in the future.

If you haven't tried SF yet, I can mail out some samples. Just need your shipping info emailed to: bgeers@myshirtconnection.com

Brian

[Ruben Salcedo]

Brian,

thank you for the offer.

Ruben

[Larry Bratton]

Brian:
Welcome to our forum.
I have looked at the Sticky Flock product and I find it to be hugely overpriced for what it is. For laser engravers there are some alternatives that are substantially less in price that will provide the same benefits. No reflection on the quality as I am sure it is a great product from that standpoint. I suspect my production can be just as high as someone using SF and cutting it on a plotter. My laser can cut a template with over a hundred stones in it in less than a minute. I simply use commercially available Phototex polyester fabric with removable/replaceable adhesive. It comes in about at $1.00 per sq ft opposed to SF at about $7.00 per sq ft and works very well. I doubt SF would save a substantial amount of time in stone placement either. The templates can be saved by adhering them to any substrate and are not limited to the original backing that came on it. Stick them on paper, wood, or cement for that matter.

[Brian Geers]

Hi Larry : )

I've heard that phototex has a couple imitators. Have you been using the original or one of the knock offs? (which might not be PVC Free)
Also, are there limitations to which machines can cut it or not?

Thank you,

Brian

[Larry Bratton]

Brian:
I use the original product. It is actually pretty easy to cut with most any laser. I have a measley 40 watts and I cut it with 50p/90s/500f. The stuff is a fabric, so it's pretty tough too but I can cut a double thickness with the same, just drop the speed a bit. It is really a pretty cool product. It has enough polyester in it that it will sublimate also. The printing is somewhat dull until you put it on a window or a back light behind it. It will stick to most anything and can be removed and replaced up to 200 times (so they say). As I stated earlier in this thread, I bought some oilboard for this purpose and it would probably work ok, but you have to add Phototex to it if you want it to be removable and savable. I tried that and found out the Phototex works just as well by itself without the oilboard.
I actually did a hot copper wire test on the SF product and the original did not show any evidence of PVC. That test is done by heating a copper wire to red hot in a torch. Insert it into the material you want to test and gather a small sample. The put in back in the torch flame and look for any green color in the flame. I didn't see any green in the flame. I'm sure you know the PVC content of your product though. I asked about a MSDS on the product, but the person I asked was unsure about how to get one, so I didn't pursue it. Good luck with your new PVC free version. I'm sure you will sell it to some laser owners.

[Brian Geers]

Larry,

I am confused about one part. You can use oilboard for templates and you can use phototex for templates. How were you using them together? I got lost somehow....

Re Sticky Flock and PVC. You are right. Since we manufacturer it, I know it has pvc's in it. We've done the flame test also and saw no evidence of PVC so it's our own desire to be honest that put us on a mission to manufacture a true PVC Free product.

Brian

[Larry Bratton]

Brian:
Sorry I didn't make that clear. I have been using Phototex for various things for quite a awhile. However, I bought some oilboard for the purpose of making these templates. When I made a template from it, I realized that in order for it to work right, it needed to be adhered to the work surface. The Phototex automatically came to mind. The only way that would work would be to adhere the PT to the oilboard using an adhesive. I tried that, and for whatever reason, the stones would not transfer properly. I guessed it was probably the adhesive I used to adhere the Phototex, as I cut the oilboard first. So, I said, why not the PT alone, I tried that and it worked great. Results might even be better to double it and cut the template, it gives a little more depth for the stone to sit in. That would increase the cost but still around $2.00 sq ft. if it were double layered. You could also take the oilboard, adhere PT to it and then cut the template. That would be a good durable template and inexpensive also.

[Brian Geers]

Hi Larry,

Thank you for the information. We ran into a similar situation a couple of months back when a member, from another forum, thought they found a substitute for Stick Flock which was 1/3 the price. When we went to test the material, it was 1/3 the price and 1/3 the thickness of Sticky Flock. Being much thinner meant that as soon as you brushed stones into the template, they would brush right out again.

We've also tested other materials which people have discovered but while they worked for SS16's they wouldn't work for SS6's like Sticky Flock does. And there are other issues that come into play.....

I think it's great that you have found PT and I look forward to getting some in to test. Specifically looking at the thickness of the material and testing the material with all sizes of stones. One of the reasons Sticky Flock is the price that it is, is because of how thick it needed to be and I look forward to testing the production speed of PT.

Thank you again!

Brian

[Larry Bratton]

Brian:
You have a point on the thickness. At the moment though it works for me as an alternative to paying $11.00 per small sheet of material. I have the material on hand and don't have to lay out any more hard earned cash for the time being. Thanks for your interest, albeit self serving.

[Dan Hintz]

Brian,

It would be nice for all of us if you would add the company you work for/own in your signature. That way when members talk to or receive advice from you, they know where it is coming from.

[Brian Geers]

Having material on hand is huge. Some of our customers use scrap vinyls and other materials they have around because they would throw it away anyway. Mostly they only need to make one or two rhinestone transfers like what Ruben was saying so it's a perfect solution.

Also, we were not even considering coming out with a PVC Free Product until we started to receive 1 to 2 calls a day asking for it. We want to come through for them so if a material already exists then we can simply point them in that direction. Until we find that perfect product, we will keep moving forward with PVC Free Sticky Flock. Any input is very much appreciated! It's tough when you get calls from customers and you don't have a great solution for them.

Brian

bgeers@myshirtconnection.com / 877-455-4665

[Brian Geers]

Brian,

It would be nice for all of us if you would add the company you work for/own in your signature. That way when members talk to or receive advice from you, they know where it is coming from.

Thank you Dan,

We do everything that has to do with rhinestones from offering rhinestones in bulk to drop shipping completed garments for clothing lines. We also manufacturer Rhinestone Template Materials which allows us to offer the materials, finished templates and rhinestone transfers per request.

Brian

[Dee Gallo]

Hi Brian, welcome aboard - here are the guidelines for signatures, which I am posting as others might find it useful to know also:

4. Signatures
Direct links are not allowed in signatures. Signatures may not be gratuitous commercial advertisements containing promotional offers, sales, or other marketing efforts. Signatures may include business names and locations and is the preferred method for suppliers and manufacturers to identify themselves. Related contact information may be included in the member’s personal profile.

Please adjust your signature, to remove the website, phone number and email addresses. This contact info should be placed in your personal profile. Thanks, dee

[Dan Hintz]

You can blame that one on me, Dee... I should have been more specific in my suggestion.

[Brian Geers]

Hi Dee :) and Thank you Dan! lol : )

Am I good now?

Brian :)

[Dan Hintz]

Looks good from here! I hope you hang around and continue posting, Brian... it's nice to have a direct contact with the manufacturers/sellers of items some use every day as part of their business.

[Dee Gallo]

Looks good, Brian! Thanks a lot, and do continue posting, this whole topic is interesting.

And yes, I thought about pointing the finger at you Dan, but decided not to since you were just trying to be helpful... I'll save it for another time!

cheers, dee

[Ruben Salcedo]

Larry,

I have a question for you, since you have both, Sticky Flock and Oilboard, which one is thicker?

Thank you.

Ruben

[Paul Brinkmeyer]

I'm npt Larry but I do have some of each on hand.

Uline oilboard is .015"
I have 2 samples of Sticky Flock one is .022" and the other is .022" to .025"
I do not know the why the diff. , waiting on the "new" PVC free StickyFlock.
Maybe Larry can add what it should be or if his is the same.


Larry,

I have a question for you, since you have both, Sticky Flock and Oilboard, which one is thicker?

Thank you.

Ruben

[Ruben Salcedo]

I'm npt Larry but I do have some of each on hand.

Uline oilboard is .015"
I have 2 samples of Sticky Flock one is .022" and the other is .022" to .025"
I do not know the why the diff. , waiting on the "new" PVC free StickyFlock.
Maybe Larry can add what it should be or if his is the same.

Paul,

thank you, that is helpful, so Sticky Mat is still thicker than Oilboard mmm... thing is I come out with an idea to keep Oilboard flat and adhered to a flat surface with out adhesive, well almost, I have a rotary engraver and I have a sticky mat ( a different sticky mat, some goes with the name of Multi Mat) to hold things flat and in position, this are reusable you just keep cleaning them up, so I thought I could used it to hold the Oilboard flat and maybe just use painters tape in the edges of the long sides just to hold it so the transfer material that you use to pick the stones up don't lift the Oilboard pattern from the edges, hey maybe it would work?

Ruben

[Larry Bratton]

Sticky Flock by a pretty good margin. It is right at .024 without the release liner. Oilboard is .016. This is what I have on hand. The extra thickness of the SF is what is touted as being the factor to allow ease of brushing the stones into the template holes.

[Larry Bratton]

Paul,

thank you, that is helpful, so Sticky Mat is still thicker than Oilboard mmm... thing is I come out with an idea to keep Oilboard flat and adhered to a flat surface with out adhesive, well almost, I have a rotary engraver and I have a sticky mat ( a different sticky mat, some goes with the name of Multi Mat) to hold things flat and in position, this are reusable you just keep cleaning them up, so I thought I could used it to hold the Oilboard flat and maybe just use painters tape in the edges of the long sides just to hold it so the transfer material that you use to pick the stones up don't lift the Oilboard pattern from the edges, hey maybe it would work?

Ruben
Rubin, I still contend that a template made from Phototex and oilboard or a double layer of Phototex solves the problem of holding the template in place and gives sufficient depth for the holes. I have owned and used one of those mats like your speaking of and it is a possibility that may work. However, you still have to solve the problem of the thickness. Double oilboard? Raking those stones in those holes with a brush ain't all it's cracked up to be in my opinion. Your still going to end up placing some of them by hand.
Edit: Isn't acrylic available thinner than 1/16"? That might be an alternate also. Don't know about cost and availability though.
Another possibility might be wood veneer. I have some on hand and I just measured it..it is .031. Again, cost and availability might be an issue. Consistency of thickness could also come into play too, but .031 would work good. Add Phototex to hold it down and then cut the template....?

[Ruben Salcedo]

Larry,

yes Oilboard is kind of thin, I think the combination of both PT and OB will do it, I'm waiting for some PT to test, I can see how I would apply PT over the OB and use my sticky mat idea, but I cannot picture how I would use them both with out the sticky mat, I know the easiest way would be the use of a double play of PT, but then again I'm looking in to making it as inexpensive as possible. :)

[Ruben Salcedo]

Thank you, Larry,

yes Oilboard it is thin, and it will be problematical for some sizes of stones to brushing in the holes.

[Dee Gallo]

Ruben,

If you are trying to make your own version, why not adhere some flock to the oilboard directly? It's very easy to do and a little will go a long way. I think Lee Valley sells it, among other companies.

[Ruben Salcedo]

Dee,

are you referring to the powdery fibers flock? if so, then that is not my purpose, I really don't care about flock or any material in particular, what I'm (we're) looking for is a material with a specific thickness that it's laser friendly that can be vector cut and as inexpensive as possible, as my self have been using mat board rastering the holes, the matboard is inexpensive but takes a longer time (time is money :) ) than if I were vectoring in a thinner material, now... with the mat board I didn't need a backing board since the holes are not cut all the way thru, but with a thinner material you vector cut the holes and since the holes are been cut all the way thru you need a backing board to be adhere to your thin pattern material so it will seal the holes from the back and prevent the rhinestones from falling off, I hope I didn't confuse you to much.

Thank you for trying to help though.

Ruben

[Larry Bratton]

Ruben,

If you are trying to make your own version, why not adhere some flock to the oilboard directly? It's very easy to do and a little will go a long way. I think Lee Valley sells it, among other companies.

Dee, it's not the same kind of flock. This stuff is more like a foam product, sorta, kinda and it has a removable,replaceable adhesive on the back. The issue is the cost of it. Rubin and I think it's too expensive and that we can do better using just some common materials.

[Laura Zaruba]

Hello friends!

L-O-N-G time lurker/infrequent poster here. ;-) I've really enjoyed reading all your tips & tricks so I thought I'd chime in and give my two cents on my limited experience. I didn't want to spend a ton of $ to buy a bunch of oil board because I don't have nearly enough "free time" to play with my laser as I have in the past but I did want to try making a few rhinestone templates. So...I looked around my shop and decided to use what I have on hand - a huge stock of Stardreams metallic cardstock from previous projects. I cut the template and used spray adhesive to add a back piece (same cardstock but a different color).

I've never made a template from anything else so I can't tell you how it compares but for a newbie it was pretty easy and worked quite well as far as I could tell. The metallic cardstock has a semi-slick surface, which allows the sticky tape to release easily, much like I imagine the oil board does. You can probably find this particular type of cardstock locally at paper-supply store (think DIY wedding invitation supplies) in 8.5 x 11 sheets if you just want to get a few sheets to test. I bought my stock from Anchor Paper http://www.shopanchorpaper.com/ and I would highly recommend them...prices are reasonable, customer service is great - they will cut to size so I have a big stack the same size as my laser bed, which is nice but if you don't need anything too big you could get by with a small stack of the 8.5 x 11 size.

Another tip - be sure to wipe down the laser cut cardstock to get rid of any black soot so that doesn't get pulled up by the transfer tape and then transferred to your material.

Anyhow, hope that helps some of you who are interested in trying to make your own templates but don't want to spend a lot!

~Laura

[Larry Bratton]

Laura:
Thanks for posting that good information. I think that is what we are all trying to do is to utilize material we have in our shops already without having to go and buy a bunch of stuff. These templates are not rocket science and are really child's play for a laser. I guess we in this forum, need to realize though, that many and probably most of the people doing rhinestone decorating don't have a laser, but do have a plotter. Cutting these templates on a plotter will require different material altogether. Us laser owners are at an advantage because we can use alternates to what the plotter gang has to do.

[Ruben Salcedo]

Laura,

thank you for the tip.

What you're doing that's what I though of doing with Oilboard but is to thin, with the cardboard you're using you're able to brush-in different size if stones (in their own template, not combine) with no problems?, do you happen to know the thickness of it? Thanks.

Ruben

[Laura Zaruba]

Laura,

thank you for the tip.

What you're doing that's what I though of doing with Oilboard but is to thin, with the cardboard you're using you're able to brush-in different size if stones (in their own template, not combine) with no problems?, do you happen to know the thickness of it? Thanks.

Ruben

Hi Ruben,

I have only tried SS10 stones so far and it seems to work pretty well. I usually have to manually place a few stones but nothing that takes too much time. I do not know the thickness of the cardstock, sorry. Have you tried to do a couple layers of the oilboard if one layer is too thin?

~L

[Ruben Salcedo]

Thank you, Laura,

no, I have not try double oilboard, probably would be OK, but that would be to many steps and messy adhesive but I may try it.

Ruben

[Stanley Waldrup]

Just tried to get some samples and was told they no longer offer them.
Stan