Milling Machine

[John Tallyn]

When my father in law passed away, he left me several of his woodworking tools, and his metal milling machine. After looking thru his drawings, it appears he used the milling machine for cutting mortises and tenons when he built his kitchen cabinets. Has anybody used a milling machine for this. My father in law was a great engineer, far smarter then I, so I could be on the wrong track. Any thoughts as to whether its possible to use a milling machine for tenons and mortises?

Thanks

[Ron Conlon]

Sure you can. The chief downside that I see would be the tedium of using the handwheels to move the workpiece through the cut.

[John Tallyn]

It would not be the fastest in the world, but would be accurate. I had planned on mounting it horizontally and using it to drill dowels with the flat bottomed milling bits because of the accuracy.

[Walter Plummer]

You have to keep the sawdust cleaned off the mill. It can get in the ways and swell from oil and cutting fluid and bind things up.

[Bruce Page]

I have done them on my mill - with power feed too!

[Julian Tracy]

Darn shame to use a milling machine for wood. You'd have a sad machine - they live for metal chips, not sawdust.

Plus - milling machines are oily beasts, at least they should be. Be a pain trying to keep it clean enough that it would'nt stain the wood.

That and trying to keep the sawdust from getting in spots where it'd be hard to find and clean out - where ever it collects could attract moisture and cause rust.

Julian

[David Kumm]

If you have the room, keep it. I use a millrite rather than a drill press and find I use it for both. I made a table that I can attach to it's table or rather the vises attached to the table and keep most of the sawdust out of the way. I have a lot of machines and it seems that metalwork, drilling, tapping, and milling are needed as much as woodworking. I run mine on a vfd and will never go back to a drill press. Tenons are done easier a bunch of other ways. Dave

[Jay Jeffery]

Sounds like fun.
A milling machine is so versatile I'm sure you will find lots of ways to use it.
But like most pieces of equipment, the real expensive part is outfitting the machine, especially with consumables. Did your dad leave you with much in the way of tooling?

[John Tallyn]

I've got a pretty good set of milling bits that came with it. Even if I can't use it for mortises, I can think of plenty of things I can do as far as making jigs, trimming hinges, little krenov style catches, the possibilities are pretty endless. So far the biggest issue with doing mortises, is the height factor, with a milling bit I can only go up 2". But, like I said, plenty of other things I can do with it.

[Bruce Page]

Darn shame to use a milling machine for wood. You'd have a sad machine - they live for metal chips, not sawdust.

Plus - milling machines are oily beasts, at least they should be. Be a pain trying to keep it clean enough that it would'nt stain the wood.

That and trying to keep the sawdust from getting in spots where it'd be hard to find and clean out - where ever it collects could attract moisture and cause rust.

Julian

Julian, my mill doesn’t give a hoot whether it’s making metal chips or wood chips. It’s a tool. It is also relatively clean with its one-shot lube system for the ways. The oil & grease in the head somehow manages to stay in the head and not on the work piece.

[Jim Heffner]

Milling machine.......well maybe. I thought that the milling machine might be better utilized
as a machine to make parts to fit other wood working applications. Metal working machines
certainly can do wood working... but sawdust and machine oils/lubricants don't mix very well
and usually wind up making a bigger mess than anything else.

[Steve Ryan]

I have a Bridgeport type mill and never had a problem machining wood on it. Just keep a vac handy.

[Jamie Buxton]

Grizzly even has a milling machine specifically for woodworking: http://www.grizzly.com/products/Wood-Mill-Wood-Metalworking-w-Power-Feed/G9977

[Dave Cottrell]

The biggest difference between a machine used for wood and one used for metal is in the speed of the cutter. Harder materials like metal need slower cutter speeds. Softer materials like wood get better results with higher speeds. This is why a wood lathe turns at RPMs sometimes three times what a metal lathe is geared at. You will notice that the Grizzly machine's top speed is 5000 RPMs, compared to +- 2500 for the metal machines. Your hand held router goes 3x faster than that.

While some milling could be done on the metal machine, the resulting finished cut may not be what you expect, and may need further work to get the surface you want.

The other issue is with dust -- not so much getting all gooped up in the lube, which it does, but in wood dust's retention of moisture and subsequent rust on steel surfaces. I have both metal and wood machines in my shop and I am absolutely diligent about checking ways and other exposed steel for dust and rust. The main point is not cosmetic, but functional. A metal working machine needs to be accurate in its movements and rust on sliding surfaces will change the calibration necessary for a proper cut.

If you plan to use the milling machine for wood, it will certainly handle it (the milling machine will be snoozing through any strain even ebony would put on it -- it is designed to hog off cast iron). But you should be aware of the differences between wood and metal working, and shape your work flow and expectations accordingly.

First thing you need to do is get a dust cover for your mill and make sure ambient dust can not get on the ways and into the lube. Otherwise, have fun with it -- it will be very very useful when you need it!!

[Terry Beadle]

I use end mills in my drill press to take most of the wood out of mortices. Works great. No rust issues. I have a heavy x-y slide mounted on it and it really makes set up and control easy. I'd love to have a mill but the bucks in the bank say different...bummer.

If it were mine, I'd use it.

It is not recommended to mix metal work with wood work but that's a function of cleaning and errant metal chip control. Metal chips raise cane on wood surfaces and wood dust can attract oil gloop like crazy. Still, if you clean things up, both worlds can be had for a little elbow grease.

[Bruce Page]

I can side mill wood, any wood, all day at 700 RPM and get jointer like finishes that require very little sanding. The only time the slower speed of a metal cutting mill is a handicap is when you are trying to get a good finish off of the end of the cutter.
When I do need a good finish like on the bottom of a milled pocket I swing my milling head 180° and presto I have a high speed spindle using my home made router adapter! (old pic)
As far as this oily, grease covered world that some envision with machine shop equipment, that is not the case unless you are running 60+ year old machines with babbit oilers all over it. :rolleyes:

[Frank Drew]

A friend of mine bought a used milling machine for mortising but has found it too slow for production work.

For mortising, a milling machine would be accurate but rather slow; a good quality horizontal slot mortiser would be accurate but fast, and that would be my choice.

[george wilson]

I use my Bridgeport type mill for wood projects often. It is only necessary to wipe the vise clean of oil,and keep a vac nozzle where it cuts to keep chips and wood dust from getting on the machine. I just made a dining table

with large mortise and tenon joints. Squared up the mortises with a chisel,quick and easy. I want a foot treadle mortiser,but haven't had one turn up yet.

[Steve H Graham]

Here is what I think: the router is woodworking's inefficient, inaccurate, dangerous answer to metalworking's milling machine. People who rout metal are willing to spend ten grand on a metal router, so milling machines are rigid, safe, and precise. People think two hundred bucks is a lot for a wood router, so all you get is the motor, the collet, and a couple of handles!

I've used my mill on wood, and it does precision work that would be extremely hard to do with my routers. Taking off a thousandth at a time is a breeze. On top of that, you get total repeatability, and you are much less likely to ruin a workpiece, because the vise or clamps will prevent most types of accidents. And you can even get a power feed, to keep your hands away from the cutting edge.

I haven't tried putting wood in my rotary tables, but I'll bet I could do a lot of lathe jobs that way.

If you have lots of skill, you can do great things with a router. If you're like me, you're better off with a mill.

I think a used milling machine is a great thing for any woodworker to have. When it's too clapped-out for metal, it's still far superior to any ordinary wood router. And you can pick up one up for the cost of a cabinet saw.

[Tom Cornish]

Among many other things, a mill will be the best drill press you'll ever buy.

I've done some fairly scary things on a table saw trying to work with small pieces of wood - with the mill I can keep my hands on the cranks and not near the blade.

I haven't had trouble with the machine being a mess for woodworking - my head doesn't drip oil all over the place, and pretty much the only cleaup I have to do is if I do a metal project where I'm using coolant.

[Lee Schierer]

I've used milling machines at work on several occasions to create precision parts that would be extremely difficult to do with most woodworking tools. I run the speed up to near the maximum and the cutters seem to work okay. I've cut wood with both router its and end mills. I dovetailed the drawer runners and separators shown in this jewelry box on a milling machine with digital read outs so that the spacing was exactly the same on each side of the finished box.http://www.home.earthlink.net/~us71na/jewel5.jpg. I also did the inlay in this box with a milling machine.http://www.home.earthlink.net/~us71na/cherrybox1.jpg

[Mark A Johnson]

I've got an older Bport, it the Swiss Army knife of the tool world. Being able to lock your work piece in the vise, makes it much safer. I don't know any machinist that have lost any finger while working.

On cutting longer pieces, you need a right angle plate: http://www1.mscdirect.com/eCommerce/NavigationServlet/Clamping-Workholding-Positioning/Angle-Plates-Irons/_/N-77dl0?cm_re=Category-_-BodyLink-_-Angle+Plates+%26+Irons&Ntk=All_MSC&Ntt=right+angle+work+holder&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Nty=1&rawInput=right+angle+work+holder%C2%A2right+angle+ work+holder

After clamping the plate to the table, then clamp your work piece to the right angle. Make sure that your piece of wood is free and clear hang off the back of the table. Then you need to dial it in you have indicators. Other wise eyeball it so you cutting equal amounts on both sides. As your cutting, take lighter cuts so your work piece is less likely to move. Feel free to pm me if you need help.

[Steve H Graham]

I don't know any machinist that have lost any finger while working.

That really puts it in perspective. As long as I don't get rolled up in my lathe, I feel very safe with my metalworking machines. My table saw scares me every time I turn it on, my jointer is like something out of a horror movie, and my routers can be unpredictable.

I guess the problem is that there is no economic justification for a $10,000 router.

[Bruce Page]

I don't know any machinist that have lost any finger while working.

Don't think for a minute that it won't bite you. I have been a machinist since 1969 and I have seen plenty of nasty bites including two lost fingers.
I have never had anything worse than a few stitches but I take nothing for granted when running any machine.

[Frank Drew]

I feel very safe with my metalworking machines. My table saw scares me every time I turn it on, my jointer is like something out of a horror movie, and my routers can be unpredictable.

Steve,

Any tool can be dangerous if used carelessly, but what's the alternative, are you suggesting that a broad range of woodworking can reasonably be done with metalworking machinery, to the exclusion of using traditional woodworking machines (reasonably, in this case, meaning within a finite amount of time)?

[Tom Cornish]

Steve,

Any tool can be dangerous if used carelessly, but are you suggesting that woodworking can reasonably be done with metalworking machinery (reasonably, in this case, meaning within a finite amount of time), to the exclusion of using traditional woodworking machines?I'm not the person you're asking the question of, and I certainly couldn't make the argument that it is reasonable to do woodworking with metal machines exclusively, but I have benefitted from some cross-discipline ideas from the metal industry, some milling operations being one example.

[george wilson]

Certain operations can be done with milling machines and metal lathes. The extreme rigidity of a milling machine does allow you to get excellent finishes with a relatively low speed cutter,like 2000 rpm instead of 20,000 rpm you'd get with a router. For making accurate cylinders,like for bench vise screws,a metal lathe is great. also great for making very accurate flat facing cuts or angular cuts.

I wuld not say that you should feel safe when using any machine. If you get caught in a milling machine or a decent size lathe,it isn't going to stop for you.

[Steve H Graham]

are you suggesting that woodworking can reasonably be done with metalworking machinery (reasonably, in this case, meaning within a finite amount of time), to the exclusion of using traditional woodworking machines?

I'm no expert. I'm lucky if I can nail two boards together. I just recognize the benefits when they're obvious. Sometimes the mill just blows the router away.

I don't know how you could replace a table saw with a woodworking machine, and planers work so well, I don't see much reason to consider fly cutting. But when you have to have an invisible fit between two pieces of wood, a mill can do amazing stuff.

I wonder what it would be like to use a mill for jointing small boards. I've done it with tiny workpieces, but I haven't tried anything larger than a few square inches.

[Noah Katz]

And you can even get a power feed, to keep your hands away from the cutting edge.

? Power feeds mount right next to the handwheels, which are far from the spindle.

[Noah Katz]

When it's too clapped-out for metal, it's still far superior to any ordinary wood router. And you can pick up one up for the cost of a cabinet saw.

Yeah, I felt pretty good about getting a new PM200o for a couple hundred off until I realized it was more than I spent on my Bridgeport (clapped out for sure but works fine).


I guess the problem is that there is no economic justification for a $10,000 router.


Per above, you don't need a new one, though you can get new smaller mills or mill/drills for less than a few thou.

[Bruce Page]

OK, here’s a little wood machining that I just started applying finish to yesterday. Don’t laugh, I know it’s a little weird - I wasn’t planning on posting any pics. :o:o

It does demonstrate what can be done pretty easily on a milling machine but would be much more difficult to do with conventional WW tools. Aside from the 8” radius that I milled using my rotary table, everything else is straight X-Y moves on the mill using straight end mills and corner rounding end mills.
Eventually this thing will hang on the wall, connect to my shop stereo and power my iTouch.
OK, you can laugh now.. :rolleyes::eek::confused:

[Joe Mioux]

OK, here’s a little wood machining that I just started applying finish to yesterday. Don’t laugh, I know it’s a little weird - I wasn’t planning on posting any pics. :o:o

It does demonstrate what can be done pretty easily on a milling machine but would be much more difficult to do with conventional WW tools. Aside from the 8” radius that I milled using my rotary table, everything else is straight X-Y moves on the mill using straight end mills and corner rounding end mills.
Eventually this thing will hang on the wall, connect to my shop stereo and power my iTouch.
OK, you can laugh now.. :rolleyes::eek::confused:

seeing is believing!

thanks for the note, Bruce.

joe

[John Tallyn]

OK, here’s a little wood machining that I just started applying finish to yesterday. Don’t laugh, I know it’s a little weird - I wasn’t planning on posting any pics. :o:o

It does demonstrate what can be done pretty easily on a milling machine but would be much more difficult to do with conventional WW tools. Aside from the 8” radius that I milled using my rotary table, everything else is straight X-Y moves on the mill using straight end mills and corner rounding end mills.
Eventually this thing will hang on the wall, connect to my shop stereo and power my iTouch.
OK, you can laugh now.. :rolleyes::eek::confused:
Wow!, you've given me hope, maybe I can do something with the milling machine other than punch little holes in scrap metal. Seriously, that gives me some great ideas for doing some jewelry boxes etc.
John

[Gary Curtis]

Two machines made for woodworking mimic a Vertical Mill: The WoodRat and the Router Boss. They are specifically designed to create joints. They use a plunge router for cutting, and have X,Y,Z axis mobility. They have some improvements in the way of dust collection, and considerably better safety and precision.

My dad was a machinist his whole career and I think that is what prompted me to get the WoodRat. I still have a router table for edge work on large boards. To be honest, cranking handles to position the cutter, and watching digital scales takes some of the fun out of woodworking. For that reason I often cut to pencil line and forget the DRO indicators.