cabinet saw candidates: round 2 (long)

[David Dixson]

After doing some research, I’ve come back with some information and some current prices on various saws. First, I’ve decided what things I think are a “must have” for me right out of the box and some things I’d “like” to have and an item I need more information on, though in most cases, I picked left tilt to be representative across the board pricewise. Here are the issues as I see them. Please let me know if I’ve missed anything

Must have:
Magnetic switch
Beisemeyer or Beis-clone fence
Rip capacity of ~50".
Motor cover-what it is made of doesn’t matter to me, though metal would be nice.
Dust port with slanted cabinet interior to enhance dust collection.
Accepts standard accessories from most all aftermarket vendors.

Would like to have:
A table “kit” including long rails, table and legs
Mobile base with long table accommodation
3HP, 220V, single-phase motor
Genuine cabinet saw trunions, regardless of motor size installed.

Not sure about:
Right or left tilt arbor-not sure about this, I need more information, are there any issues with left tilt vs. right tilt to consider?
What is the “t-slot” miter slot that Grizzly pushes? Does Shop Fox also have this?

Here is the pricing “to me” list with some vendors eliminated and some added with a brief overview of what I get for the money. All motors are 3HP and all are ~50” rip unless otherwise stated. This includes motor covers and miter gauges, but not necessarily a saw blade or table:

General International 50-260 M1, ~50” cut, Left tilt, Beismeyer clone fence, no table, no mobile base: $1299.00 + tax, local dealer

Grizzly 1023S, Beismeyer clone fence, Right tilt, 7’ rails, table kit, motor cover, mobile base. $1413.90 delivered
Grizzly 1023SLX Beise-clone fencepackage with mobile base, left tilt. $1511.00 delivered

Shop Fox W1677EXT1, Beise-clone fence, left tilt, 7’ rails with table kit, no mobile base. $1199.00 delivered. (I can get the mobile base with the saw from another dealer for $1383.00 delivered. The first dealer didn’t charge freight.)

Jet 708663MBK, Jetfence(?), left tilt, 7’ rails, table kit and mobile base. $1474.00 delivered

Bridgewood BW10LTS, (Beise-clone fence?) with table and legs, no mobile base. $1499.00 +shipping.

(Sadly, the guy I talked to at Wilke today seemed uninterested in talking to me about working up a deal where I bought three units. I wonder if there is someone who’d be willing to work with me there. If not, I might be rethinking the Yorkcraft jointer and planer, due to other folks being willing to make me a better deal on three machines.)

Woodtek 114-761, Beise-clone, with mobile base, no table or legs, $1128.00 delivered and dealer may have a 10% off for first time buyers. Would have to repaint that awful yellow trim though, whew.

Delta 36-L3B Unisaw (older model, 2 yr. Warranty) table kit, 1 cast iron wing, no mobile base. $1499.00 delivered (Again, a possibility of getting 10% off for first time buyer.)

Sunhill CT-250T, camlock fence, 2HP motor, built in mobile base, odd 2 belt motor arrangement (I don’t think this is a true cabinet saw, but some sort of hybrid.) $795.00 delivered.

I got rid of the Delta Industrial model and the Harbor Freight, because of items I’d read about them. Though I’d like to hear from someone who owns either or both of these saws.

Right now I’m looking hard at the Shop Fox, the Jet and the Woodtek. I am not positive, but I think they represent the “most for your money” out of the bunch. What do you guys think?

[Bart Leetch]

Woodtek unknown quality ??? I'd buy the Delta Industrial model before the Woodtek.

I'd probably go with the Delta 36-L3B Unisaw or Shopfox. :D

[Bob Reeve]

It is an age old question. IMHO both are good. I have right tilt but learned on a left tilt. Why right then? I got a deal you couldn't refuse. I have since learned that the Smart Miter by Jointech (which I wanted and since purchased) is only fully functional on a right tilt saw. Go with what your comfortable with.

[Mike Holbrook]

The Shop Fox deal looks like the list Price Redmond and Son shows for that saw with standard rails (they list 1,399.00 for the model with 52" rails). They were offering 10% off at the Wood Working show in Atlanta. I think you are getting saws that were made prior to Grizzly raising prices, so that deal may not last long.

Most people believe that left tilt saws have a safety advantage because tilting the saw away fro the fence is less likely to bind stock against the fence and cause kickback. I think the right tilt advocates like some measuring/alignment advantages they feel the right tilt offers.

Regarding fences, General use to make Biesemeyer fences for Biesemeyer, when Delta bought Biesemeyer General had to stop using the name, but as I understand it their fence is not a "clone" in the way others are, apparently there was not a patent involved at that time.

I like my General saw. The only thing I don't like about General is there Manual and assembly instructions, they are Spartan at best.

[John Weber]

Get the Unisaw, best fence - no one does it better the Biesemeyer. Everyone has t-slots, (I don't know what Grizzly is smokin' on that claim), and best dealer support if needed (even though you are going with Woodworker Supply - a very good company). Plus the Unisaw is still assembled in Jackson, TN if that helps.

There is little that seperate the Shop Fox, Grizzly, and Woodtek. My next choice would be the Jet.

John

P.S. What about a Canadian built General or Powermatic 66...

[Norman Hitt]

David, the "T" mitre slot mainly keeps the mitre guage from tipping out of the slot when you are starting the cut on a wide board that extends beyond the front edge of the saw as you start to make the cut. My PM-66 has it and it is handy at times. Don't worry about the extension table or the two legs, just make your own as a first project, and it will definitely be better than any of the factory ones that I have seen. You won't need any additional rails either to mount it, if you get a Biesemeyer or it's clone, because they have both the front and back angle that you mount your ext table to. Two short lengths of thinwall 1" square tubing from the big box will make the table legs.

As you said, the motor cover doesn't matter. I did not buy a motor cover when I bought my saw, and they were metal then, but much later when I ordered one, they were only available in the plastic, but it does the same job.

I am a devout Left tilt man myself, and feel there are definite safety advantages there, and apparently many other folks do, or all brands would not now be marketing left tilt models as well as the original mfrs that were doing so.

If the saw you Like has a slanted panel inside to direct sawdust, fine, but if not, add one yourself, that would be the absolute least important item to me, as a deal maker/breaker.

I still feel that since all are in a compatable price range, within seemingly plus or minus a hundred bucks, you should go see the final contenders in person and Then PICK the one YOU LIKE BEST. You will be Happiest over the long haul if you do it this way rather than later saying, "Gee, I wish I'd spent that other hundred and got the one with.............

[Tim Morton]

Grizzly or Bridgewood!!!!!! :D And then move on....it seems like you are at the saturation point and you need someone to give you a "shove". If you want someone to coddle you on the phone then go with grizzly...if you want the better TS and you can handle "bored sounding sustomer service" then take the Bridgewood...its a better saw but its more money too. Both saws will knock your socks off!!! As you can see here, everyone has their own opinion, but chances are good none of us are ever going to use your saw..(or chip in and help you pay for it :cool: ) Now go buy a saw!!!!

[Bob Aquino]

I bought a reconditioned unisaw from Redmond about 4 years ago. Came with a 50" biesmeyer fence and I got the right extension table for about 100 extra (not worth it). Base price of the saw at the time was 1000 plus about 100 to ship it. My recommendation would be to check with Redmond and see if they have any refurb delta's for sale.
Now if cost is king, take a look at th jet scratch and dents over at general industrial supply. They have a 10 xacta saw for 1140 that meets your parameters here: http://www.generalindustrialsupp.com/product.asp?ID=114 Don't know what shipping is, but it might work with that price. I think refurbs or scratch and dents are the way to go here. Lets face it, once you get the saw home and set up, what really is going to go wrong with it? Problems with cabinet saws usually are far and few between. Good luck.

[Bob Johnson2]

The new customer deal is now 5% at WWS.

[Michael Gabbay]

David since you live in Georgia and Redmond is in Atlanta why not go pick up a reconditioned Unisaw? One good thing about a reconditioned tool is that a technician is actually going to work with the tool as a part of the reconditioning process. You basically get a hand built/tuned tool.

When I upgrade from my Delta contractor saw I will definately look at a reconditioned Unisaw, PM66, and Jet.

My 2 cents...

Mike

[Bruce Gray]

Several months ago, I bought the Jet to augment my underpowered Craftsman table saw. The Jet came with their micro-adjust fence, and that is a feature that I have found that I use frequently. I do a lot of "tweek to fit" rip cuts, and the micro-adjust is real handy.

If you end up going with the Jet, you may want to consider another brand mobile base. I bought a Delta/Unisaw base, which fits the Jet cabinet fine (although I to fiddle some the fit the table extension.

[Chris Padilla]

Hey, let me toss the SawStop into the mix...we "need" to start including that new saw! :D

[Norman Hitt]

Hey, let me toss the SawStop into the mix...we "need" to start including that new saw! :D

WHY???????

In my mind, that saw has a long way to go in "Use Experience" due to the High Tech aspects of its design before I could possibly suggest it to anyone without money to burn in case it doesn't prove reliable and or durable.

Note: I'm not against this saw, just feel it is too early in it's history to suggest or recommend it yet except to those who want, (and can afford) to be on the "Cutting Edge" of things. (Pun Intended).

[Jim VanBramer]

Go with the ShopFox ... best "new" machine out there for the $$$ spent. You'll love it as much as those of us that already own one!
Honestly, you'll be very happy with any one of those that have been mentioned.
Good luck.
Jim

[JayStPeter]

I wouldn't be able to refuse the Shop Fox at that price for everything.


Hey, let me toss the SawStop into the mix...we "need" to start including that new saw! :D

Only if he wants to wait. I think they have backorders for a while.

Jay

[David Dixson]

Gentlemen,

I want to thank you for the comments, both in this thread and the earlier one. You have answered most all my questions and helped me focus on what was and was not important in purchasing a cabinet saw.

As usual in our lives, money available for purchases dictates what we can and cannot purchase. Sometimes we have to budget what we spend on one item vs. another. With that in mind, between these cabinet saw posts and your earlier posts on planers and jointers, I've been able to sort through the pile of offerings out there (Isn't being an American grand?) to find what I feel may be the best compromise of cost vs. function vs. quality.

To that end, I have identified an Oasis 15" Planer MB380L (Same thing as Yorkcraft YC-15P, right on down to the in cabinet wheels.) and an a Oasis 8" Jointer MB203H (Same thing as Delta DJ-20, except it has wheels in the cabinet the Delta doesn't have.) as possibly the best value around in a planer and jointer. I wanted the Yorkcraft planer, but wasn't happy with their jointer (Same thing as a Delta 37-380 Professional jointer.) fence, so when the opportunity to purchase the planer I really wanted with the jointer I really wanted, I went with it. Maybe I'm cheap, but I see no reason for paying Delta premium "Made in USA" prices for tools made in Taiwan or China (A Delta dealer told me the Unisaw was the last USA made tool they had in their line.). I'd rather buy an off brand equivalent and save my hard earned dollars. But then, I'm not the richest guy on the planet. PM66's and Unisaws are just plain out of my price range. I need those few extra dollars to buy wood, Nicholsen rasps, scrapers, sandpaper, etc.

The company that offers the two Oasis machines for sale also offers the Shopfox W1677EXT1 Cabinet saw at a competitive rate. I was able to purchase all three tools for $3147.00 delivered to my door. Based on price comparisons, that's three major tools for about what two of many of the high end tools cost. Since it boiled down to cost, features and quality, with a dash of "I really want that one." satisfaction factor thrown in.

The bottom line on my choice of a Shop Fox was I felt I could afford (after compromises to pay for all three tools) either the Grizzly, the Shop Fox or the Woodtek. After talking to multiple representatives of several companies, then running down to the local Shop Fox dealer (wow, was he expensive), I felt satisfied I'd be more than pleased with the Shop Fox (I also looked at a Jet, General and Unisaw at the same time.), though I feel the Woodtek is likely a quite good saw also, but I just didn't see myself living well with the "Green Bay Packer and John Deere Tractor" look. (Btw, I'm getting one of the new shipment of the Oasis equipment they have coming in, which is not going to be "High lime green" but instead is going to be a "cream" white color. Apparently there was a mixup on the paint color chart and the paint selected by the purchaser was NOT the paint put on by the manufacturer in the first batch. Instead, it was the color below the one they wanted. OOPS :)

Thanks again for all your comments, they helped a great deal. I really like this board, it's much more polite and the comments/suggestions are significantly more helpful than on another board I read.

Dave

[Dave Wright #2]

I think that mention is SawStop is appropriate in some "what cabinet saw should I buy" threads, but probably not this one. The saws being considered are fairly inexpensive - the priciest being something like half the cost of a SawStop. Also, the SawStop misses a couple of the specs. Safety, or the ability to accept aftermarket safety equipment, isn't listed as a criteria.

I have mentioned SawStop when people say that safety is an issue, it's a professional or school shop, or they indicate that they are looking beyond the typical Jet/Delta/General/PM choices.

That being said, I still really like my SawStop. I have come across posts by several independent SawStop owners on the woodworking forums. Their reports are all pretty glowing. Innovative design, well made, smooth running, just an all around impressive and pleasant saw.

[JayStPeter]

Dave,

Not to hijack this thread, but how does the SS do in the area of DC. It seems like it should be excellent given the well thought out design. But, in the real world does it still spit dust like most table saws?

Thanks,

Jay

[Bart Leetch]

But, in the real world it still spits dust like most table saws? Jay by leaving out one word you could have answered you own question.
Its the same design it spits the same. Just like a cat spits & hisses so shall the kitten.