Update to -- Mass-Electrolysis

[Tom LaRussa]

I somehow have managed to acquire nine Stanley/Bailey #4s. Not sure how it happened. I think maybe Chris Thompson has hacked into my =%@/ (http://=%@/) account. :eek: :p

But seriously, I have nine of these cute little buggers, of which eight need fettling and five need the full-on strip-to-bare-metal-and-start-over treatment. (The ninth is my finely fettled user -- a 1960's version with blue Japanning :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: -- that is set up for use on stuff like birdseye maple. :eek: :eek:

Anyhoo, I need to electrolysize five of these puppies, along with their respective froggies. And I need to keep track of which pieces go with what body and all that stuff. So, I made up some little plastic number tags out of a sheet of poly, and used those plastic wire holder thingies to attach a tag and a frog to each body.

Okay, so far so good.

But how in the heck am I supposed to electrolysize ten pieces at once in my little round Borg bucket?

No problemo, I just bought an 18 gallon rectangular tub, (less than $5 at Lowes), put a layer of flashing around the inside, then inserted a plastic basket to hold the pieces and keep them from contacting the electrical thingie.

Then I made up 10 little jumper wires with alligator clips and some 14 gauge utility wire, clipped one end of each to a part to be cleaned and the other end to the negative off my Harbor Freight battery charger.

Hooked everything up, checked all the wires to be sure they went where they are supposed to, added baking soda and water, then flipped on the power. The little needle read nine amps so I turned the charger to a lower setting, and settled on about 3.5 amps at 12 volts. That's enough to do the job pretty quickly but light enough not to cause any hair raising incidents -- at least going by what I've read.

Okay, if I haven't put you to sleep yet, I'm sure the pic police are gearing up to give me a tongue lashing.

HAH!

Here they are!

[RichMagnone]

Great idea regarding the small basket inside. I think I'm going to steal that idea. Also, are you really using baking soda (regular old arm & hammer?). I was under the impression we needed "laundry" soda (which I thought was different).

Anyway, please post a pic with the result after those puppys are done with their bath.

[Louis Bois]

The Mad Man on the Creek strikes again...you threw us for a loop...a diversion, if you will...with all those chisel purchases...when your REAL agenda was the acquisition of #4's!!! Very clever...evil plan...

...now, my only concern is that this whole #4 acquisition scheme may just be another plan to throw us off your REAL REAL agenda...45's?!? Luthier planes?!? Thomas the Tank Engine Videos?!? Grilled Cheese Sandwiches?!?

:D:cool::eek:

[Chris Thompson]

I somehow have managed to acquire nine Stanley/Bailey #4s. Not sure how it happened. I think maybe Chris Thompson has hacked into my =%@/ (http://%3D%@/) account. :eek: :p
Upon the advice of my attorney, I invoke my fifth amendment right against self incrimination.



Also, are you really using baking soda (regular old arm & hammer?). I was under the impression we needed "laundry" soda (which I thought was different).
Rick, chemically, you just need to make the water slightly alkaline to allow better current flow through the water. The soda itself doesn't actually contribute to the process itself.

Basically (Base! Hah!) what you're doing in electrolysis is the same experiment from high school chemistry class where you separate water into Hydrogen and Oxygen. The plane is the electrode which generates oxygen, the other bit of metal pulls Hydrogen from the water. (Which is why you need to do this outside!)

Iron is Fe. Rust is FeO2. You set up a plane body to pull Oxygen out of the water, and it'll pull Oxygen out of the FeO2 as well as single Oxygen atoms struggle to find mates to form O2. (Remember, there's only one O in H20) FeO2 - O2 is good old Iron. Which is why electrolysis is the least damaging derusting method, it leaves most of the iron behind.

Now, a warning. I haven't had a chemistry class in 15 years. It's possible I've missed something here, but I've got the gist right.

For my electrolysis setup, I went to a local pool supply store and bought a tub of some powder used to Raise Alkali/Lower Acid in your pool. I think I paid $10 for enough to do several LARGE dips.

[Chris Thompson]

Oh, and Tom,

My sickness isn't THAT bad. I only have, uh, three #4s and four #5s

[Marc Hills]

I used baking soda until I finally located a sourse for washing soda. I must admit, I didn't see much difference between the two. A chemist might be able to explain why the washing soda is preferred over the baking variety, but I've had good results with both.

For anyone contemplating electrolysis, don't let the inability to find washing soda stop you from trying electrolysis.

And Louis, I'm with you. Clearly Tom is certifiable. I've never seen a case quite this bad, have you?

[Louis Bois]

Well Marc...

There was this power tool user dude...name John something...Millions...nope...Mullions...Milliluna s?...ah yes,Miliunas or something...seems he bought a plane...He's part of a group now...some sort of therapy...denial...it was horrid!!!! :eek::D

[Tom LaRussa]

...now, my only concern is that this whole #4 acquisition scheme may just be another plan to throw us off your REAL REAL agenda...45's?!? Luthier planes?!? Thomas the Tank Engine Videos?!? Grilled Cheese Sandwiches?!?

:D:cool::eek:
HAH!

Wouldn't you like to know!

:p

But seriously, my ultimate goal is to corner the market on old carpenter's pencils.

[Tom LaRussa]

Well Marc...

There was this power tool user dude...name John something...Millions...nope...Mullions...Milliluna s?...ah yes,Miliunas or something...seems he bought a plane...He's part of a group now...some sort of therapy...denial...it was horrid!!!! :eek::D
I think he changed his name to MILLION$ -- spelled with the dollar sign to signify how much money he spent on LV & LN tools during January of '05. ;)

[Tom LaRussa]

Okay, the planes and their froggies have been stewing for two days now, which should be plenty long enough.

After I pull them out I give them a washdown with a degreasing cleaner, (one of those "extra strength" products that comes in a spray bottle -- can't remember the name, but it's not important anyway, so why the heck am I dwelling on it? I don't really know.), and then dump them into a bucket of paint remover.

I haven't stated this explicitely yet, so I will now. The idea here is to let various chemical processes do as much of the work as possible, so I don't have to. Believe me, there is plenty of hand work waiting for me later, so the less I have to do now the better.

Okay, here are the pics. You'll notice that the water no longer looks quite so clear. :eek: :eek:

[Tom LaRussa]

Rick, chemically, you just need to make the water slightly alkaline to allow better current flow through the water. The soda itself doesn't actually contribute to the process itself.

Basically (Base! Hah!) what you're doing in electrolysis is the same experiment from high school chemistry class where you separate water into Hydrogen and Oxygen. The plane is the electrode which generates oxygen, the other bit of metal pulls Hydrogen from the water. (Which is why you need to do this outside!)

Iron is Fe. Rust is FeO2. You set up a plane body to pull Oxygen out of the water, and it'll pull Oxygen out of the FeO2 as well as single Oxygen atoms struggle to find mates to form O2. (Remember, there's only one O in H20) FeO2 - O2 is good old Iron. Which is why electrolysis is the least damaging derusting method, it leaves most of the iron behind.

Now, a warning. I haven't had a chemistry class in 15 years. It's possible I've missed something here, but I've got the gist right.


Chris,

Thanks for that explanation of the scientific basis underlying this process. You must have done pretty well in chemistry, 'cuz that's the clearest explanation I have read of the subject, and I've read just about everything having to do with electrolysis and rust on the web. :)

[Chris Thompson]

Tom, Actually, I didn't do very well in anything, as paying attention would have interfered with my idly staring out the window daydreaming about nothing in particular. Some teachers, however, such as Mr. Nevels my chemistry teacher were more persistant than others. :)

Two points about your pictures. First, I completely misunderstood you earlier, and thought that picture of all the planes together was an AFTER shot and I thought "Well, those aren't very impressive." :)

Second, two days? Wow. My one plane I dipped was pretty crusty to start, and only ran for like four hours and was really good. I don't have near the patience to leave something for two days, nor would I be comfortable leaving it churning while I was at work. I bet your planes are going to look incredible!

[Jack C]

How will you re-jappan the planes now that they're clean, without using an oven? I too have a couple of old Stanleys in need of re-jappaning. Can it be done "cold", without heat?? jack

[Chris Thompson]

How will you re-jappan the planes now that they're clean, without using an oven? I too have a couple of old Stanleys in need of re-jappaning. Can it be done "cold", without heat??
Jack, you can if by "Japaning" you mean "High Gloss Black Spray Enamel".

For real japaning with asphaltum, you need to get the plane to 350 and hold it there.

For my planes, users all, I plan to go the spray can route because I don't have an oven I can use (And all indications are that you do NOT want to do this in your regular oven.) High durability, high gloss black paint, such as that sold for painting grills, or engine blocks, will provide the look, and the protection.

[Tom LaRussa]

How will you re-jappan the planes now that they're clean, without using an oven? I too have a couple of old Stanleys in need of re-jappaning. Can it be done "cold", without heat?? jack
Jack,

Like Chris said, you can do it with certain high-strength paints, but I use an oven.

I also use home-made Japan which I cobbled up by reading all the old recipes I found on the net plus some general stuff about how paints are made.

My recipe is a mixture of:

boiled linseed oil
turpentine
asphaltum
rosin
damar gum

I cook the mixture in a double boiler until I can no longer feel anything gritty in it when I rub it between my thumb and fingers.

Note that I do this OUTDOORS, ON A CONCRETE PATIO. I wear eye protection and welder's gloves, and keep a fire extinguisher handy. If there is no breeze to blow the fumes away I provide one via an electric fan.

[Tom LaRussa]

For real japaning with asphaltum, you need to get the plane to 350 and hold it there.
I have found it necessary to go to 450.

A lot of folks worry about the body cracking or warping, but I have had no such problems, and to worry about them doesn't really make sense when you consider how long it has been since this iron was cast. After all, my "youngest" plane is at least 50 years old.

I just make sure to leave the parts/bodies in the oven to cool down slowly, and like I say, I've never had a problem in all my many days of doing this. :rolleyes:

The only downside I have found -- and I'm not certain if it's the heat that causes this or the fact that I line the oven in aluminum foil prior to baking -- is that the metal comes out discolored sort of a brownish-yellow. But that buffs right off, so I don't worry about it.

The Japan itself comes out quite hard.



(And all indications are that you do NOT want to do this in your regular oven.)
Uh. No? (Gulp.) :o

What would be wrong with using a regular oven, assuming, hypothetically of course, that someone were silly enough to do so?

[Chris Thompson]

What would be wrong with using a regular oven, assuming, hypothetically of course, that someone were silly enough to do so?
Well, that's a darn good question. I had always assumed the process had, perhaps, a residue or a gas that could stick to your oven and ruin food. I can't find it now, but I swear the article on japaning I read said not to.

Of course, he could have meant "Don't do this in your real oven or your wife will kill you!" Which is just as bad. :)

I may have to do real japaning on this #5 I just got. It's in amazing shape, remove the tote and it's actually still shiny. It just has some patches at toe and heel that are a bit ragged. Seems a shame to not use the bulk of that good japaning and go paint.