Can you make a decent living with a laser engraver?

[Michael J Smith]

I'm getting ready to purchase a laser for my side business. I'm wondering if most people with a laser engraver are doing it as a hobby, or are making a good living from it. I know, a good living is in the eyes of the beholder. My other business is on the down swing, like a lot of businesses in this wonderful economy. Now I need extra income from somewhere else, and laser engraving turns my crank. Sublimation was next on my list. So, how much do you make a year??

Mike

[Scott Shepherd]

Doing what? Making baby photos in granite? No. Making 90% of the things shown in a demo by a laser company? No.

Is it possible? Certainly.

What will your return on investment be? Low. I can think of 3 other items in my shop that had much higher returns on investment.

A CNC router, a vinyl plotter, and dye sublimation.

That's my take on it. Your mileage may vary.

[Dan Hintz]

You can make a decent living with nothing more than a hammer, saw and two screwdrivers (one screwdriver if you know how to press really, really hard). It's possible, you just have to use it the right way.

[Dan Ashlin]

Even though I Haven't been in the business long (only a year) I can honestly say that a laser engraver alone will not make you money if you want to do the "promo style" products that you see in laserbuzz or at demos. You have to think of it as a tool in your arsenal, it's all about what you do with it. I run an engraving shop, so yeah, it comes in handy, but I use the laser to cut acrylic for signage and acrylic cases as well, which has proven to be a lucrative side business. I don't use a laser to exclusively make products to sell, I use it as a tool in making the products I sell, if that makes any sense. Its like Dan said, You can go to lowes and buy a hammer, but its what you do with it that makes you money.

[Ross Moshinsky]

Honest suggestion? Find someone with a laser and ask them if you can go out and do sales for them. They'll do the work, you get the client base and make a few bucks while building your future business. If it works out, you know if you can run a business. If it doesn't, then you know it's just a pipe dream.

[Martin Boekers]

laser engraver are doing it as a hobby, or are making a good living from it. extra income from
Mike

How does the old (and revised numerous times) joke go.......

How do get an engraver off your front porch?......... Ready?

You pay him for the pizza!:D


It is tough in this economy to do it, yes some do, but usually they have a niche market.
Be careful listening to Laser Sales people they want to sell a laser.

Whether you can justify the cost or payments that's something you'll decide very few make good money, mostly it seems a break even or a few etra bucks proposition with
a lot of hours involved.

If you do decide to go forward, this isn't something learned overnight. Not so much
the laser operations as it is learning the software. If you have a strong graphics arts background with computers and software the curve is a little less steep.

Good luck with your adventure!

[Rodne Gold]

Using it as tool to add value to products that there is some demand for is the way to go , I have a multitool shop which makes a lot of products , the laser is a way of making those products more unique , however its only a complement to the arsenal of other tools used in the production process of those products , as a stand alone , I doubt I would be making good money.

[Larry Bratton]

No you can't selling to the public. Find commercial uses, subcontract cutting, signs, cut letters etc. I have read post after post on here where laser owners make some really neat things and try and sell them at craft shows and flea markets etc. Most of them are absolute failures or at best break even propositions. You also need other things to sell, cut vinyl (plotter), cnc router work, sublimation, transfers etc., combine these capabilities with your laser and you stand a chance.

[Michael J Smith]

Thanks for the responses, people. I know my questions are very vaque, but just trying to get an idea of the potential with this industry. My real job is a surveyor, so I have autocad experience. I bought Corel X4 last week, watched a gazillian tutorials already, and now I have some confidence with it. Now I send my engraving info to the engraver via crd files, instead of a plain email.
One other thing that is spurring me to do this, is that there is no immediate competition in my City.

Vision, without execution, is just hallucination...

[Dee Gallo]

Michael,

I am one of the people who use the laser to serve a niche market and it is profitable for me. But the laser is only part of the toolbox, my business would be nothing without the design, marketing, research and other skills needed to make it all come together. That said, without the laser, I would not be able to make the products I sell as well or as easily in a timeframe that makes me money.

You can flail around looking for the perfect product or you can pick something to specialize in... If you are not going to do commercial work, you need a niche market. I recommend doing a bunch of market research first to find your customers, find out what they like, find out what they can't live without and create a new product which they don't even know they need yet, but will want it as soon as they see it. I also recommend targeting high end customers, as their money is not as variable from year to year as regular folks, plus it's better to sell 10 things for $100 each rather than 100 things for $10 each.

I work as much or as little as I want to right now, which is pure luxury after a lifetime of deadlines. I make enough to be comfortable. But I will not get rich doing this, just a lot of enjoyment. I do have enough work that I needed to get an apprentice this year, which is a nice way to share expertise and have some extra hands to do the work.

cheers, dee

[Bill Cunningham]

A laser is a great tool to 'add' to an existing business, and existing customer base. Starting from scratch is a tough row to hoe for many businesses. The one positive thing you can count on, is a large assortment of used lasers coming up cheap, from people that listened to a laser salesman tell them how much money they can make!

[andrew zen]

Great thread.

I would never buy a laser, but I inherited one from a bad debt - hmm irony.

I use it for prototypes to support my main business. I do special projects for family friends after hours. It is a tool not a business. Unfortunately, it is a tool that has a steep learning curve and a lot of restrictions like ventilation, power, and fire concerns.

I though I could run a job while I do other work but I have to sit close to blow out flashes so now I have labor prices as well.


Whenever I tell people I have a laser their eyes light up, but in the end they wouldn't spend a lot of money to do things the laser can do. Layout designing eats up a lot of time as well.

People shoot for $60 and hour payout for the laser, subtract your time to watch the laser, the square footage for rent - 100 sq ft, insurance, risk of fire, risk of damage to the things you are lasering, electricity, and replacement parts and you are taking home a lot less than you budgeted - this is assuming you have paying customers. - cost of sales.

Most of the users here have another form of income or support.

It is cool instrument, but there are other ways to make more money out there without worrying about calling the manufacturer to FedEx a motor or display board. I was definitely drawn to the fact that I could make anything, but in the end making anything has a lot of scrap and limitations. In the end, a < 100W laser can cut Delrin and Acrylic. It can engrave, but why not go the the engraving guy in your town or order it from the millions of sites online. With plastic prices going crazy and laser prices tanking (both due to the Chinese) a laser is a risky business for someone without other things.

[Giacomo Cheslaghi]

I'm trying to set up my business focusing in personalizing hi tech items, I'll let you know if at the end of the year it was worth trying.

I'm also trying to produce some small objets like keychains ad photoframes, and I provide photo engraving

I'll let you know :)

One question, I hear a lot of you talking about implementing the laser in a business with CNC routers, vinyl plotters and dye sublimation.

Can I ask how you use these machines togheter?

[Scott Shepherd]

One question, I hear a lot of you talking about implementing the laser in a business with CNC routers, vinyl plotters and dye sublimation.

Can I ask how you use these machines togheter?

The laser can cut shapes from some materials, which you can then apply vinyl to or dye sub (right material) to make products. If you just had the laser, you couldn't finish the project, you could only do one step of it. With multiple other pieces of equipment, you can do the jobs from start to finish. There's not much value in unfinished product.

With the laser and a vinyl plotter, you can make many things. However, the vinyl plotter can do things much larger than the laser, so that's where the CNC router comes in. You can cut larger items. Also, you can cut PVC on the router, which then, when lettered with vinyl, makes very nice products.

A router can pay for itself easily, in my opinion, because you don't tend to do jobs that have a finished price of $45. It's easy to do $500 jobs and up on the router. So the job size is larger. You'll also hear many router owners talk about jobs that are more than $10,000. So that's one job, more than $10,000, and it's not uncommon.

With the laser, you can end up doing a lot of $8 items. At most, a $100 item here and there. You can get long run jobs that make money, but it's not that common. You're talking about selling items that take minutes to run, so the cost will never be but so high.

With the vinyl plotter, I've personally done many jobs in the $1,000's of dollars, so the machine paid for itself very quickly.

Dye Sub, you can do things fast. They are cheap products, but you can do multiple items at one time.

If I had to do it over again, a laser wouldn't be at the top of my list.

[Peter Odell]

I Bought my laser in November so far I have made enough to pay off my laser and am looking for another one. I went the cheap way out and bought a chinese laser would I do it again, yes I would now I am looking for a small machine to take with me. I am one of the few that has done this. It is not easy I work a full time job then I come home and work into the early morning hours. When my wife and family see me they say do we know you. But in the long run it will be worth it. I do a lot of industrial tags and I also do a lot of craft shows.

[Rob Nusbaum]

Great question. I've been considering a laser purchase too. I'm at the age that I could retire with a meager pension and looking to enhance that somewhat; been a hobbyist woodworker for many years and thinking a laser might be a good complement to that. My thinking has not changed on that, except that I should put more thought into evaluating the cost of a laser versus the potential income.

Research into answering the question of a laser purchase is what landed me at the Creek first place. I've been on this forum, and the other SMC forums as well, nearly every day since I found this sight. Really appreciate the insight I've received here.

[Rodne Gold]

Here's an example of multitool production:
This awards base was made with a CnC router , the brass "starburst" was CnC cut , the mask was digitialy printed and domed and the green acrylic was laser cut and laser enghraved.

[Giacomo Cheslaghi]

Impressive work Rodne,

the award business is something I cannot enter with just a laser engraver, and my business plan doesn't include buying a second machine at this moment..

maybe one day...

[Dee Gallo]

Here's an example of multitool production:
This awards base was made with a CnC router , the brass "starburst" was CnC cut , the mask was digitialy printed and domed and the green acrylic was laser cut and laser enghraved.

Superior work as always, Rod, but you are forgetting to mention your best most valuable tool, which is your design skill. Those tools would be half as impressive in someone else's hands.

cheers, dee

[Martin Boekers]

Superior work as always, Rod, but you are forgetting to mention your best most valuable tool, which is your design skill. Those tools would be half as impressive in someone else's hands.

cheers, dee

You are right Dee without a vision an award is just an award. I have to say after seeing
Rodne's creations rthrough the years even half as impressive is still pretty impressive.

This is why Rodne is so succesfully! Nice work!

[Doug Griffith]

You'll also hear many router owners talk about jobs that are more than $10,000. So that's one job, more than $10,000, and it's not uncommon.

A typical application that I often deal with is CNC routing plugs for vacuum forming and fiberglass.
1) Layers of 1" MDF are glued together. Usually around 2" thick because long router bits have issues.
2) The layers are machined on a CNC router with registration dowel holes on the flats.
3) The layers are bonded together to form one large MDF plug.
4) The plug is sanded, filled and sealed.
5) If for vacuum forming, the plug is then sent to a foundry to be cast into an aluminum tool maintaining an even wall thickness.

This is much easier, cheaper, and faster than machining out of billet or even 5-axis routing. And $10k is a realistic number for this type of job.

I've even laser cut and engraved components of the plugs and inserted prior to casting. Whatever process is quickest wins.

Also, the only time I've made real money with the laser is industrial cutting jobs. 1000s of the same part. Not fun but helps pay the bills.

[David Takes]

I have a somewhat different perspective to add here. I am a multi-tool shop. My markets are corporate awards, gifts and industrial engraving. Three of the four processes (rotary, laser & sandcarving) by themselves would produce a livable wage for me, but only because I also sell the products to be marked or engraved out of a fully-stocked showroom.

The markup on the in-house product sales is what adds substantial value to these machines. If I were working out of my garage or basement, I feel I could do it successfully, but not to a level where one process such as laser engraving could carry the weight of earning a living. It would still take the diversity of tools to earn an acceptable living, especially since my in-house product sales would be considerably less.

[Jiten Patel]

I run a niche business with the laser being my only main tool and it has worked for me. Niche being the key word. Dee said it earlier. You have to know what market you are entering, the clients you want to attract. Mid-High end is what is all about.
Having design knowledge or skill it also a massive plus too. Without it, we wouldnt be able to come up with the things we do and therefore would not being doing as well as we are.

It can be done, but you have to have the right product.

[David Fairfield]

So Jit, did you make the Royal Wedding invitations?:)

The laser alone won't earn anyone a living. Its only half a tool without software, and a tool is an inanimate object without a user. So really the operator and his/her design and business skills are the key factors to consider.

Dave

[Jiten Patel]

David,

I wish I did. That would have taken our business to the next level. But the royals thought we were too expensive lol!

[Neville Stewart]

OK, now that was funny. :)

[Kev Williams]

I know a guy who bought a couple of large format Chinese lasers and had an idea take off, he seems to be doing pretty good. However, and this is just my opinion, but a point will come when his sales will cool off and he'll be looking for jobs...

Back in the 70's my parents, myself and my BIL all made a decent living engraving computer keycaps. Dad made masters on his Gorton pantomill, me and my BIL engraved the buttons on New Hermes IRX-IV pantographs, mom painted 'em and did the bookwork. Me & Don would crank out 1000 buttons a day between us, at 75 cents a pop-- not bad money for 1975. That all ended in the 80's When Bill and IBM eliminated the need for proprietary computers. Now I have a whole herd of machines to make a living and need every stinking one of 'em! And I have a new-to-me Gravograph IS7000 coming next week, and I'm about ready to pull the trigger on a big Rabbit laser... This need to make a living is a sickness! :)

[Rahl D Winters]

Can you make money with a Laser engraver? Yes, I bought a Full Spectrum 40 watt hobby 3 years ago. That's paid for it's self in 2 months. From there I've built the Frankenstein laser engraver, 4 foot by 3 foot work speace, 100 watt Co2 from lightobject.com, and now my production is 5x faster from the Hobby we got years back.
Do I have a Ferrari in the drive way, and a 50000000 sq foot home off the money I'm making from the Laser No. Far from. I run only the laser vs other who use it to add to a product. I work only with wood, and design a lot in Corel Draw. Hand paint, to add touches and different effects. Now, we just started moving into different fields where we're using other woodworking tools to make frames ect. I don't want to get too much into what we do, because we have a corner on the market and the only ones doing it from what I've seen out there. We make products all year long, but the Winter season we do craft shows and sell our products. Where one of our fields of products sells the best, rest of the year we sell other products to keep busy, Both my wife and I work full time, and count the money as extra play.

Key tip. Become a master in the Program you draw in. And think of something new and different.
Everyone is making trophies or trying to. Everyone is or can do the same thing you find on google search. Think outside the box and see what you can create. We found the trick to be.. Just start making stuff, picture it and find a site to sell it on. And just keep adding stuff and hope it sells. Worst case. Christmas is coming, if it doesn't sell, heres a gift.. Look at other peoples work and see what you can do to make it better or change it.

But have an Idea before you just buy a laser and sit there looking at a blank screen going what do I make.
Other ways, get it and go door to door of local business and be like is there anything I can laser for you today?

[Mark Sipes]

So, how much do you make a year??

Mike

A question asked by a true corporate employee. Most of us are self employed. I haven't received a check in over 18 years. Everything I do or fail to do costs money. So your question of "how much do you make a year??" is based on how hard do you have to work to get and retain a loyal customer and how much product can you produce as a single employee who is Receptionist, Waiter, Cook, Dishwasher, Stock Boy and Bookkeeper. Hire an employee and you must more than triple your Gross Income, because the State/Fed loves to charge you all kinds of extra fees. Your Phone bill at hone is say $30 a month for service. Tell them you're a business and now they charge you $75 for the same service. Internet - $29.95 a month at home installed free. Business $69.96 a month and $100 install charge. Quarterly taxes , enough said. My biggest charge is shipping. Do your homework and prepare a realistic business plan. Not for today but rather for 2 years from today. And most importantly set a date to evaluate your plan and if it is still working as a sole source of income.

Who needs your service, what is your service? and "What would you like, I have a laser" is not the answer. plastics, acrylics, mdf, plywood
are all mediums to work your magic. What does you city need? name tags, data plates, signage, hat racks, find the answer and you will make a good living...

[Clark Pace]

I Bought my laser in November so far I have made enough to pay off my laser and am looking for another one. I went the cheap way out and bought a chinese laser would I do it again, yes I would now I am looking for a small machine to take with me. I am one of the few that has done this. It is not easy I work a full time job then I come home and work into the early morning hours. When my wife and family see me they say do we know you. But in the long run it will be worth it. I do a lot of industrial tags and I also do a lot of craft shows.

About a decade ago when not as many people had lasers I okay money just on doing laser work. Now it's much harder. And I don't make near as much as I used to. So I agree if you can get other equipment it will help.

That is what I'm working on.

[Paul Posner]

I have a new multi-tool shop - maybe it's the snob in me, but I prefer to call it a 'makerspace'. It was assembled for making a particular product, which has not gotten off the ground yet, but is on target for a March 2015 release.

To keep the funds flowing, and to pay my awful electric bills, taxes, and so on, I have been working on alternate revenue streams. One stream I see doing well is education. We have homeschooled 2 of our 3 sons, and the homeschool world is growing - thanks to common core.

If you shop is presentable and comfortable, you can host classes for kids. Teach them to design, how to use gear safely, and how to take an idea from start to finish. They don't learn that is school anymore.

I get $10-$20 per session (90 minute "class time" - which may or may not include machine time, based on the day's lessons) per kid. The younger kids are doing simpler work; assembling laser-cut boxes, affixing vinyl decals, easy stuff, they get about $1.00 in materials per class, and LOVE the lab.

The older kids are making more complex stuff. Mor complicated parts, assemblies, electronics, programming, etc. Many will seek extra time in the lab - and will even clean for free time! The older kids think of cooler things to do.

As for the adult set, well... same thing. I have a small stable of regulars: a guy who custom engraves walking canes, another guy who makes doll houses, a friend who is working on a stop-motion video series: all these guys do do few hours a month here. The classes for adults are growing too, as these guys want to learn to do their own prep work, rather than paying me to do the prep for them.

As for my work, I span across all our machines, each doing it's proper part...

And of course there is the usual slew of custom engravings, making molds for people (molds are VERY expensive), and more.

You just need to hustle, and find new clientele CONSTANTLY.

Good luck, and seriously consider the educational opportunities, there is good money where school budgets are slashing shop classes, and kids are just learning how to take tests.

[Clark Pace]

About ten years ago I would say yes. But now everyone seem to be getting a laser. As matter of fact I got a call from a company that was going to purchase a laser, and wanted help setting it up. It was going to be a china laser.

[Mike Lysov]

If we are not talking about engraving only but simply about a full time business with a laser you can make a very decent income with it even if you run it all by yourself. I do laser cutting with two lasers and I am now getting more than I could do as an experienced web developer. I only offers engraving to my regular customers so it all based on cutting only.
I have zero advertising apart from running online campaigns on Google/Bings. They often send their free coupons and that's what I use to advertise sometimes adding just my $50-100 once a month. I do not have any shop in a shopping centre because their price for leasing a place in it is very huge($1500/week). Most of my clients are coming from ebay and organic google search. It has taken me about 5 years to get where I am now and it has started to grow after I decided to sell a CNC router and got a powerfull 280W machine to cut through thick wood. By the way MDF is the only material I work with. I was thinking of adding acrylic but it is not cheap and hard to get for a good price and most of acrylic suppliers want to sell you a full size sheet while customers often ask for some really small jobs in acrylic that not even worth driving to pick material up for a supplier not to mention paying for the full size sheet.