Bandsaw Newbie Questions

[Greg Sysak]

Folks,

First off let me say that this is my first bandsaw and my first post so please be patient. I am trying to get my bandsaw tuned up and have a few questions on what I have read and what I should expect. First off, I have a Laguna 14SUV with the Drift Master fence. I set everything up based on the manual and spent some time setting the guides and tension. However, I am still not happy with the cut. It is not smooth (tested resawing 6in wide oak and maple; oak if definitly worse and seems to exsacerbate the issue). The surface of the cut seems a bit jagged almost like the blade tends to vibrate side to side at different times during the cut. This jaggedness is also not consistent. Part of the cut will be smooth and then the blade seems to jump a bit and then it will be smooth again. Also, when feeding the stock it seems that sometimes it cuts with very little pressure and other times you have to push it a bit. When it cuts without much additional force the pitch of the blade changes (gets higher) and it seems like it is these times when the blades tends to vibrate a bit and create a bit of unevenness on the cut. I am running a 1in blade. The manual says track the blade in the center of the wheel. I read this to say center the blade as much as possible on the wheel. With a 1in blade the teeth almost extend to the front of the wheel. I assume this is correct... I tried adjusting the tension and it does not seem to make that much of a difference. I went all the way to max on the scale and it still seems that the cut is not consistent. I also tried adjusting the guide (ceramic) several times. Tried them a bit loser and also tried to tighten them by putting them right next to the blade. Performance still seems to be off. I checked the drift of the blade using the cut/stop center blade method. It is dialed in as best I can see. In my case it does take quit a few tries to get it right. I cut, then center, then cut again and then need to center again. It almost seems like it drifts along with the fence a bit. I know I center it after the first cut but then when I cut again it is off. After about 5 cuts I can get it where the blade is centered in the cut. It would seem to me this should be a much faster procedure.

In my mind it almost seems like the blade is not completely trued up the saw and when it vibrates a bit it cuts faster..... I checked as best I could and it seems OK. I will follow up with Laguna tech support but wanted to see if anyone could offer any thoughts...

Thanks

Greg

[Mike OMelia]

I would be careful about setting the tension too high. Yet, I think the real issue here is practice. You seem to understand the concept of drift. You have all the right stuff. So, I would keep cutting pieces of wood (soft wood for now) until things start clicking into place. Once setup, the saw should be stable for quite a while.

Mike

[David Kumm]

I would start off with a smaller blade 1/4 or 3/8 and get a feel for the saw and its capabilities. You can actually see the drift with a smaller blade by how the back of the blade centers in the kerf- or not. When you can resaw a 4 to 6" board effectively with the smaller blade, move up. One inch is a pretty big blade for any 14" machine. A quality 1/2 will resaw most anything you need and tension alot easier. The teeth should hang off the front of the tire on the big blade. Sometimes blades have a little flutter to them as well. I have gotten more than one less than perfect blade. Dave

[Jim Rimmer]

First, I would say that the 1" blade is too much for a 14" saw. Check out this thread: http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?149862-Lets-talk-bandsaw-blades!
Also, get a copy of The New Complete Guide to the Band Saw: http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=duginske
It sounds like a combination of blade tension and feed rate. I don't think you can tension a 1" blade on this saw. I would also recommend practicing on softer wood until you get the hang of the saw.

There are lots of folks here more knowledgeable than I about BS so I'm sure they will chime in but they will probably also recommend the thread and book listed above.

Welcome to the Creek and good luck with the saw. And thanks for becoming a contributor. You will get your money's worth here.

[Laguna Tools]

Hi Greg,

I am contacting you now by phone to discuss.

It sounds to me that the issue you are describing is likely due to a bad grind on your carbide resaw king blade, in which case we will either offer a warranty sharpening or full replacement. Additionally in response to the above poster, while true that a 1" blade is too big for many 14" bandsaws, the 14SUV is in fact built to tension blades up to 1", just wanted to clear that up.

Thanks,
Tim Lory
Laguna Tools

[Myk Rian]

A jagged cut is the product of pushing too hard, resulting in cutting too fast.
Use a 1/2" 3-4 tpi blade.

[Mike OMelia]

Ha! I missed that about the 14" wheel and 1" blade. Tim, these are Carbide Tipped blades, right? Since, a carbide blade would never make it around a 14" wheel... right? I still say that the OP needs to also spend a lot of time playing with the saw (in addition, now, to the warranty issue described above).

Mike

[Laguna Tools]

While true that a jagged cut can be the result of pushing to hard or even misaligned drift angle, I do not think that is causing the issue here. I have seen this exact issue several times before with our Resaw King blade and was each time due to an improper grind.

The performance of the Resaw King relies heavily on the shape of the tooth, so even a relatively slight variance can cause major tracking issues.

Tim Lory
Laguna Tools

[David Kumm]

Tim, I haven't used your resaw king blade but have been familiar with them. What is the band thickness and how big a kerf. I have heard they tension easier than the lenox but haven't verified with someone in the know. thanks, Dave

[Laguna Tools]

Hi David,

Great question. Our standard Resaw King blade is available in 3/4", 1" and 1 1/4" widths. The total cutting kerf at the tooth is .041", with a bandstock thickness or .024". In comparison to the Lenox regarding ease of tensioning, I am not really sure.

Please note that the $95 carbide Resaw King that I currently have available in the "Deals and Discounts" section on this site, does have a slightly wider kerf than our standard full price retail Resaw King blade described above.

Thanks!
Tim

[Greg Sysak]

Tim,

Thanks for the follow up. The blade I have on now is a 1in Lenox Trimaster (got it for a steal so I thought I would try it). I had the 1in Resaw King and was getting a pretty jagged cut reliably. I sent it back to Jason at Laguna for analysis. He was very responsive. I just received 2x 1/2 inch blades from Laguna. I will try these and see how it looks.

I do have a few other questions. In general, what kind of cut should be expected from a bandsaw? I watched the videos from Laguna where Torbin is resawing some pretty thick wood and it appears that his cuts are almost perfect (no sanding required). Is this realistic? My cuts are not that good with the Trimaster (maybe the blade is just to big for the 14SUV; i.e. requires to much tension) What kind of results do most people get resawing veneers? Do you always have to clean them up with a sander afterwards?

Next, are there things to look for in terms of determining if a blade is over-tensioned? Or, is over tnesioning just not good for blade life and the band saw tire?

Finally should there be any "play" in the shaft that holds the top guides? Mine can twist very slightly left/right if I don't have the guard height locked. (it won't move left/right but you can twist it slightly if the guide height is not locked down). It would seem that if I am not careful it could twist slightly when raising or lowering the guide and effect the drift/guide block alignment. Is this normal? If I lock it down after I raise or lower it is is solid. Is this just something I need to be mindful of?

Thanks again for all the helpful feedback.

[David Kumm]

Tim and Greg, The resaw king blade thickness of .024 vs the lenox at .035 would make the resaw considerably easier to tension. I can see the 14suv handling that but not the lenox. As to cut quality, my oliver 217 is pretty good. The lenox I use, which is not the vari tooth so supposedly not quite as smooth delivers a cut that looks like a straight knife planer with a knife very slightly misaligned. Yes, the veneer needs sanding if exposed but not if the surface is to be glued. Keep in mind that hand feeding with all but very short pieces will cause some inconsistency in the finish. Any change in feed speed or particularly any hesitation or stopping will leave a mark. Plan on sanding. Veneering is one of my reasons for having a drum sander. I don't believe you need to worry much about overtensioning anything over a 1/2 blade. I run my yates snowflake with a starrett 1/4 inch blade at 30000 psi and it resaws so well it is what I use for tenons. I have a tension meter but my main rule is to tension until the blade just moves back slightly when under the cut without running the back bearing very hard. Don't bottom out the spring or run the blade hard against the back bearing and your blades will last longer. If you don't believe me I have lots of broken blades to lend you. Dave

[Myk Rian]

Next, are there things to look for in terms of determining if a blade is over-tensioned? Or, is over tnesioning just not good for blade life and the band saw tire?

You won't be over-tensioning that blade on a 14" saw. I'd be surprised if you could even tension it properly.
I use a 1/2" Timberwolf and get great results re-sawing 12" stock on my 1966 Delta 14".
I use the flutter method to tension it.

[Greg Sysak]

Hi folks,

I received my blade back from Laguna and while the issue is a bit better I am still getting ridges when I cut with it. It seems that the ridges on the cut are also based on the speed I feed piece therough the blade. The ridges go from around every 1/4 in for slow feeding and 1/2in for fast feeding. I also checked the top wheel and it does have a slight wobble in it. If I sight it againt the back wall I can see it wobble a bit as it goes around. Could this be causing my issue? It is balaced pretty well from what I can see but it does have some wobble. Do most upper wheels have a bit of wobble or do they have to be perfect? I looked at the bootom wheel and it seems OK. I don't have much vibration when running (can stand a nickel on its side while running but it falls down on sartup/shutdown). It is a 1in Resaw King and I am tracking it with the tip of the teeth just hanging off the edge of the upper tire per Laguna.

I have a ticket opened with Laguna as well. Was also looking for feedback from the larger community.

[Myk Rian]

A wobbly wheel indicates a problem with bearings, the axle, or the tensioner.
You will not get a smooth cut on a band saw, certainly not a glue line cut.
I expect to run the stock through my planer or sander after re-sawing. Just part of the process.

[Bob Rankin]

I love my adjustable rip fence to account for drift.

[Curt Harms]

A jagged cut is the product of pushing too hard, resulting in cutting too fast.
Use a 1/2" 3-4 tpi blade.

That was my first thought--too high feed speed. This is a carbide blade though with (l assume) no set to create scratches. I'm not sure if too-high feed speed creates the same issues with carbide as with carbon steel or bimetal blades. I've never used a carbide bandsaw blade.

[Myk Rian]

Of course it will. You push harder on the stock, the teeth take more off. Those chips are jammed up in the gullets until they clear below the table.
It's all those chips jammed in the gullets doing it.

[Greg Sysak]

I am ripping 3/4 inch oak. Not that tough. I can push it through pretty easily so it seems strange that chip jamming is causing this issue especially on such thin boards.

[Danny Burns]

If you sent the other blade back to Laguna, then it should be easy for Laguna to do a test cut with it, and if the blade was fine, then the problem is in the machine or the machine set-up or operator use.

[Greg Sysak]

Danny,

Good idea. I spoke with Laguna again and they claim they had a problem with the sharpener and that my blade still has an issue. They are going to replace it this time. I will ask them to make a test cut as well. I also received a Timberwolf blade (3/4) that moves front/back as it spins around (tensioned with guides not set). It also vibrates side to side against the guides as the saw shuts down. I called Suffolk Machinery and they said it sounds like a blade issue and they are going to replace it. I had no idea there are so many issues with blades for a bandsaw. To date I have my original Resaw King which did not have every tooth sharpened, Laguna resharpened it which a sharpener that had issues and now I trying to work past an issue with my Timberwolf blade. Is this the norm? Do most people have blade issues?

Thanks,

Greg

[Greg Sysak]

Folks,

Got a new 3/4 Timberwolf blade from Suffolk. Installed it and tensioned it and noticed that now the saw vibrates side to side with the blade tightened up. Cut is also not clean. This is my second blade from Suffolk. The saw does not vibrate when there is no blade installed. Does this seem like another bad blade? I also received a new Resaw king from Laguna. I open it up and it is the wrong length. Frustrating. Had my bandsaw for almost a month and still have not made any useful cuts.

Any feed back on blade quality from Suffolk? They seem to be highly rated. Could there be another issue with my saw?

Greg

[Jim Rimmer]

By side to side, do you mean the blade moves front to back on the wheel? I had a TW that did that and they replaced it free. I haven't installed the new one. I bought a Woodslicer from Highland and couldn't be happier.

[Greg Sysak]

My first one did that so they sent me a new one. My new one causes the whole saw to vibrate side to side if you are standing in front of the blade... I am wondering if there is something else wrong with the saw. I have never really been able to get a good cut off it.