Type 9 4C Bailey Plane

[lowell holmes]

I have one that I am resurrecting. The problem I have is that the lever cap screw is stuck in the frog. I have soaked it with penetrating oil and put it in a baggy to soak. Nothing works yet.

I am considering putting the frog in the oven at 200 degrees F for a period of time. Is there a problem with this? Will the cast iron frog handle it? Will it help?

If all else fails, is sawing the screw flush and drilling it out an option?

Would a helicoil work? I've used them on head bolts before.

What say You?

[David Weaver]

200 degrees won't hurt it. If you put japanning on a plane, you have to bake it a lot hotter than that to get it to cure, anyway. Give it a shot.

I wouldn't be afraid of the torch to warm things up a little if you're delicate and precise with it and not intending to cut a hole right through the middle of the frog.

A helicoil should work fine (they're used all over the place in cast iron blocks, right?) as long as you can match the threads, but I have never had a plane that was rusted so badly that you couldn't get the screw out with less effort and cost than tracking down the right helicol. No reason to spend a lot of money or time on a very common plane in a very common type if it doesn't have sentimental meaning.

What are you using for penetrating oil? Farm boards I used to read raved about a 50/50 blend of ATF/Acetone, or 40/60 mix of the same.

[lowell holmes]

I'm using a penetrating oil purchased at a big box store. It's marketed as "Blaster"

I assume atf is automatic transmission fluid. I will try the mixture and let it soak for a few days. Thanks.

[David Weaver]

yes, automatic transmission fluid. As far as I know, that mix has tested to be a better penetrant than any commercial product. Maybe it's bad for you and best in limited quantities, I don't know, but i can't imagine a place where there's more constant rust to deal with than farm equipment, so they're probably the best guys to get an opinion from.

[Johnny Kleso]

Give the Blaster a few days to work..
Give it a small shot every day or wrap a small rag around the screw and soak it and leave it for for a week or two..


I'd jack the heat to 400º even 500º if lower temps dont work..

If will turn silver metal blue in color but no big deal, just steel wool it back to silver..

PS: watch out for japan starting to smell while in oven..

[Trey Palmer]

I had this problem on a type 11. The screw slot was already partially stripped from previous efforts. Neither my buddy nor I succeeded in getting it out. I shimmed it for use for a little while until I found a suitable parts plane, which happened to also be a type 11 #4.

I will try the ATF-acetone solution as well -- if that works, all I'd need is a type 10-11 #4 or #5 bed and a new screw to make another great plane.

[keith micinski]

Skip the time trying penetrating oils and just heat it up. in 17 years I have never had heat fail once. Penetrating oil is like Rogain to me. They tell you start using it and MAYBE your hair wont fall out anymore. Same thing with Penetrating oil for me, use it for long enough and then try and take the bolt out and MAYBE it will come out.

[Jim Koepke]

The hole on the back side of the frog goes to the lever cap screw if you haven't already figured that and poured some penetrating oil in it.

If you do look for another frog, try to figure if yours is an early or later type 9. I do think the later frogs will work on the earlier type, but not the other way around.

jtk

[lowell holmes]

I wasn't sure about the hole behind the screw, but I have been putting the stuff in it.

Thanks for the advice guys.

[Kemil Pepin]

A soaking in Evaporust for a day or two should loosen it right up. This has been the most consistent method that works for me.

[Johnny Kleso]

Penetrating oils work it just needs more than 10 secs..

I had a very old extra small drill chuck and it did not move at all..
I trid some CRC penetrating oil fir a few days spraying it for about a week and I had forgot about it for a week, so the second week I was going to try and turn it with all my strenght and I nearly broke my wrist when I tried to turn it.. It was as free as the day it was made..

What you can do is if you have needle nose vise grips or channel locks grab shank of the screw..
Thats what I do when the screw head is semi stripped..

[lowell holmes]

I have the needle nose vise grips. So far, it just will not budge. I'm going to let the penetrate work for a week or two and have another go at it.

The plane has no great value, but I was watching Frank Klausz video "Hand Tools" and thought"I should fix up that old plane and give to my son. So, there you are.

Thanks.

[Jeremy Brant]

Another thing to try is shocking it. I had a front tote screw that was stuck...tried penetrating oil and was having trouble getting it down to the threads. I have a set of screwdrivers that have strike caps on the back (Wiha), so I clamped the tote to my bench, put the screwdriver on the screw to be removed, and whacked it solidly a bunch of times (with a few more spurts of penetrating oil in the process). Eventually it popped the rust lock and came right out without stripping out the screwdriver slot.

[William Allen]

I've had great luck with vise grips, bench vise, and a heat wrench (propane torch). I had a type 11 with a screw that felt rusted solid. I tried penetrating oil to no avail. So I broke out the plumbing torch and heated up just a bit and eventually it broke free. I used a wet rag as a heat sink for the frog and the thing popped free after a few minutes of heating and trying twisting.

[James Scheffler]

A soaking in Evaporust for a day or two should loosen it right up. This has been the most consistent method that works for me.

+1. I've had far more success with this approach than with penetrating oil. Also, there is no chance of damaging the part this way.

Jim S.

[Ed Looney]

Try heating the screw to red hot with a torch. Try as best you can to only heat the screw. After the screw gets cherry red just shut the torch off and go drink a cup of coffee and let things cool down to the point you can touch it with your bare hands. Then reapply the penetrating oil and give it a shot with the vise grips. I used to use this trick to get threaded studs out of exhaust manifolds.

PS When it first starts to move try moving it back and forth a little to get the oil down in the threads. You don't want the threads to gall up working things dry.

Good luck

Ed

[lowell holmes]

It's done!

I let the Blaster work for a week, stuck the frog in a vise, put vise grips on the bolt and gently worked back and forth. It came out with no problem.

I appreciate the tips. I think I might soak the plane body in Evaporust to remove the surface rust. The japan is gone. I think black rustoleum will end up on the plane.

Again, thanks for all of the tips.