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Paul McGaha
04-19-2011, 7:26 PM
For the first time in my life I served on a jury the last couple of days.

It was a criminal case, a felony hit and run.

God bless the judges, lawyers, police and support staff that spends a lot of time in a court room. It was an experience.

PHM

Brian Kent
04-19-2011, 7:59 PM
Congratulations, Paul. I am glad you got to do that.

Jim Koepke
04-19-2011, 8:02 PM
Thank you for doing one of the things that keeps America what we are.

I have been called to jury duty a few times. Usually do not make it to the box. Though twice I have been rejected by one lawyer or another.

jtk

Ken Fitzgerald
04-19-2011, 8:29 PM
I have never figured out why but in the nearly 29 years we have lived here.....every other year either my wife or I get selected for jury duty. I have a neighbor who has lived here all of his life....he's 4 years older than I......a stand up....never been arrested citizen.....he's been selected 1 time.....

Though I've been called, I have never had to serve and yet my wife has set through a couple trials......

One time I got selected and the entire jury pool got thrown out as all of us received a form letter from friends of the two defendents. Turns out locally, the defense lawyer receives a list of all potential jurists before the trial.

Bill Cunningham
04-19-2011, 9:13 PM
Just explain that you are a great advocate of Jury duty, and particularly Jury Nullification. You'll never find yourself on a jury list again.;)

Bryan Morgan
04-19-2011, 11:47 PM
Just explain that you are a great advocate of Jury duty, and particularly Jury Nullification. You'll never find yourself on a jury list again.;)

My friend was threatened with arrest when he said that. Jury Nullification is one of the greatest things about this country that nobody seems to know about...

My wife had to sit through a trial a few months ago. Cost our family $1200 in lost wages... that HURT. Just who is the one being punished here? All these people out of work with nothing to do and they wouldn't let her off...

Rich Stewart
04-20-2011, 8:19 AM
They sure got my number. I have gotten called every year for the last 8 years. Always cost me a couple days pay. It all started when a local politician who owned the bar I was in talked me into registering to vote. Tell me more about this Jury Nulification.

Larry Edgerton
04-20-2011, 8:31 AM
I get called up every year but as I was a bit of a wild child in my youth I never get put on a jury. The lawyers always get together up at the front and whisper some stuff and the judge says: "Mr Edgerton, you are excused." I didn't really do anything bad, just had too much fun on occasion, but it seems to be enough. I'm about due for another summons.

It may be that 130mph over.........

Paul McGaha
04-20-2011, 8:55 AM
I'm not saying you shouldnt do your part. In fact I think you should. It's how our legal system works.

What I was surprised at was the defendent and the facts of the case was something right off the Jerry Springer show. Just unbelievable really.

PHM

Ron Jones near Indy
04-20-2011, 3:58 PM
LOML and I have been called for jury selection several times. I served on a jury for a criminal trial and found it interesting and rewarding.

Bryan Morgan
04-21-2011, 12:30 AM
They sure got my number. I have gotten called every year for the last 8 years. Always cost me a couple days pay. It all started when a local politician who owned the bar I was in talked me into registering to vote. Tell me more about this Jury Nulification.

Simply, you can nullify any law. Say for instance you are listening to a case about a guy caught with marijuana. The jury can nullify the law and say that you've decided carrying marijuana should not be illegal. Judges and lawyers HATE this. Thats how it was explained to me anyway. Heres the wikipedia page for it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jury_nullification

Dan Hintz
04-21-2011, 6:55 AM
Simply, you can nullify any law.
Not quite. It gives you the ability to reach a verdict that is contrary to the letter of the law. It's the spirit of the law that's most important, so a jury can use nullification to side-step the letter of the law and reach a verdict appropriate to the situation in front of them.

For example, the law says no speeding. A man's wife, his passenger, begins having a heart attack, so he rushes to the hospital. An officer pulls him over for speeding and gives him a ticket, despite the obvious emergency. (This actually happened, and despite the man's pleas for help, the officer would only allow an ambulance to be called to that spot... he still wrote the guy a ticket, and the woman didn't make it). If the man asked for a jury trial on the ticket (let's say for the purposes of the argument the option was offered, okay?), the jury could use nullification to remove the ticket. Even though by the letter of the law he was speeding, the spirit of the law is to prevent senseless speeding (i.e., impatience).

Kent A Bathurst
04-21-2011, 8:39 AM
For anyone that feels jury duty is something to try to avoid, I would offer one thought: God forbid that through some miscarriage of justice, you found yourself on trial, and the only people in the jury pool were ones not "clever" enough nor aggressive enough to find a way to avoid it. That is not the jury of my peers whom I would want deciding my fate.

This lesson was hammered home to me years ago when, as a resident of the City of Detroit, I was called for jury duty to the court that tried serious felonies. Went straight from work: WASP executive in a well-tailored grey suit, starched french cuffs, rep tie. I did not fit the general inner-city profile, that's for sure. However - only one question was asked : in what discipline[s] did I receive my college degrees? The lesson learned: give me jurors that are well-reasoned and thoughtful, from[B] all walks of life, and I like my chances.

The punch line: after 3+ days of sometimes contentious debate, we rendered our acquittal verdict, after which the judge talked with the jury - his version of a small-setting civics lesson. He let us know that (a) we had just kicked loose one of the worst people in the city, with multiple priors; (b) had we voted to convict, the judge would have overturned that verdict because of the "reasonable doubt" imbedded in the widely varying testimony; and (c) go home and think about that very carefully - a truly bad guy was walking the streets because we did the right thing under the law.

So - and this was cosmically stupid on my part - I'm walking out of the courthouse, and cross paths with the accused [mid-twenties] and his Mom. He said "Thanks". Me: "Don't thank me - thank the cops. I'm certain you were there and that was your pile of drugs, but the cops blew the bust, and they had to make up a bit of a story. They'll be watching you like a hawk, and I don't think they will mess up next time. I get the impression you're not very clever at this - you should look for a new line of work." His Mom is nodding, and the young man is glaring at me - and I realized I had better shut up and get out of there...............

Callan Campbell
04-21-2011, 9:12 AM
Ahh Jury Duty. My first time as a juror was a murder trial, complete with bloody evidence and pictures-Another memorable trial was listening to some complete idiots who scammed the division of AT&T that they worked for by slowly, then brazenly, stealing new lap tops since no one above them was checking buying and inventory for months at a time. The highlight was listening to the VERY embarrassed testimony of a VP from AT&T try to explain just how bad, and expensive the scam got. Something like 1/4 million if I remember right. The scammers got tripped up when they escalated to shipping right out of the building with UPS or FedEx. All the weights of the packages were the same since all the laptops were basically the same model, so it was easy for the Feds to figure out how many computers went out the door. Really silly in the end....

Michael Peet
04-21-2011, 9:29 AM
I have always wanted to be a juror. Recently I made it as far as selection, but was rejected by the lawyers. It was very interesting and I took it seriously.

I never understood the desire by so many people to "get out of it".

Mike

Kent A Bathurst
04-21-2011, 10:11 AM
...I never understood the desire by so many people to "get out of it".

Yeah - headscratcher for me also - why would a person want a jury system that does not work well? Same thing for voting: it seems to me that while you are certainly not obligated to vote - I'm fine with that - if you don't vote, I believe you've also abrogated your moral right [not your legal-free-speech right] to gripe or whine about the results. I always vote - sometimes in a cause I know for sure will lose - so I can feel OK about [insert prohibited word here] at the top of my voice - and I am pretty doggone good at that, I can tell you. :D

You gotta pay to play.

Brian Vaughn
04-21-2011, 10:47 AM
Michael, the biggest impediment for most people is lost wages. Some businesses are better than others, and will make up the difference to your salary, but depending on where you live, jury duty may only pay $40 a day. I don't know about you, but most people make a lot more than that. And for a family living paycheck to paycheck, it can be the difference between making the house payment and not, depending on the length of trial.

I don't know about others, but around here, if you're on jury duty, you call in every morning and see if you're required to report to the courthouse. Then if you report, they put everyone in a big room, and as needed, they pull out groups of people for various trials.

I have made it to the big room, but never into the courtroom itself. I was supposed to go, but the suspect plead out, which was apparently a good thing, as it would have been a long trial.

I understand why it's done the way it's done, but I agree that most likely, if I ever have to go to trial for something, I'll be judged, mostly, by people who had nothing better to do, or needed money and weren't gainfully employed. That worries me. That's why I never try to get out of it if called, because I'd rather people that want to be there in the name of justice, rather than in the name of entertainment.

Zach England
04-21-2011, 11:03 AM
I have never been called, but I am young (27). Is jusry notification taken off of voter registration rolls?

At the same time, I am visually impaired, so I think that would excuse me.

Dan Friedrichs
04-21-2011, 11:54 AM
Not quite. It gives you the ability to reach a verdict that is contrary to the letter of the law. It's the spirit of the law that's most important, so a jury can use nullification to side-step the letter of the law and reach a verdict appropriate to the situation in front of them.


(watch me say something that gets me out of jury duty for the rest of my life)
Actually, the jury can completely disregard the law if they feel that it's unjust. The classic example is the huge number of moonshiners who were acquitted (despite irrefutable evidence of their crimes) during prohibition - the juries rejected the idea that the law was valid.

The whole idea just comes from the notions that (1) juries don't explain their decision, just render a guilty/not-guilty, and (2) a juror can't be punished for not coming up with the "right" decision

Kent A Bathurst
04-21-2011, 11:56 AM
I have never been called, but I am young (27). Is jusry notification taken off of voter registration rolls?
At the same time, I am visually impaired, so I think that would excuse me.


AFAIK, it varies by laws in your jurisdiction[s] - you'd have to check out the laws. For example - local could be voter rolls, state could be driver's licenses, and the Feds - pretty sure that's the tax/social security data base. Rotsa Ruck avoiding that one.

The visually impaired would be a big plus IMO - blind justice, and all of that - you've seen the iconic blindfolded lady holding the scales of justice, right?

And I don't mean "reason" as: a statement presented in justification or explanation of a belief or action.
I mean "reason" as: the mental powers concerned with forming conclusions, judgments, or inference

Trevor Howard
04-21-2011, 12:01 PM
I have been in the country 16 years and been called twice, but once I mention I have a Green Card for residency they say I am not eligible. Not sure if this is linked to me not being able to vote also. I think lost pay is most peoples grievance, I am on Salary and would get paid if I did do it.

Bonnie Campbell
04-21-2011, 12:19 PM
The two times I've been called for jury duty I was dismissed. Apparently having family in law enforcement isn't something defense lawyers want. In Oregon they pick the jury pool from drivers licenses/non-driver IDs.

Kent A Bathurst
04-21-2011, 12:34 PM
......Apparently having family in law enforcement isn't something defense lawyers want..

LOL - yeah, apparently. In the court case I described above, I'm sitting in the jury box waiting for the questions to start. The gentleman next to me keeps checking his watch. Says me: "you got someplace to be?" Him: "yeah - I'm already late." Me: "Well, I think you're gonnna be here a while." Him: "nah - I'm out in under 2 mintues - watch." Defense Atty looks over and says : "Capt Johnson, you are dismissed" He turns to me, grins, and says "Detroit Police precinct captain. Have fun."

Zach England
04-21-2011, 12:41 PM
I have been in the country 16 years and been called twice, but once I mention I have a Green Card for residency they say I am not eligible. Not sure if this is linked to me not being able to vote also. I think lost pay is most peoples grievance, I am on Salary and would get paid if I did do it.

My employer only compensates for a certain number of days--I think three--missed due to jury duty. My time is worth far more than whatever the pittance that jurors are paid.

Kent A Bathurst
04-21-2011, 12:53 PM
I am simply apolitical. I view voting as a form of activism and activism is inherently polemical, which compromises my belief that knowledge and conviction tend to co-exist in inverse proportion. I also cherism my freedom to not vote. Many countries (Austria, Belgium, Australia, Singapore, Argentina, to name a few) do not afford their citizens this. I also view all public electoral candidates as populists, which I find anathema.

I know, it is not a very tenable position, but I am comfortable with for reasons other than pure apathy.

OK, Zach - no problem on my end, for sure. Plus - anytime someone gives me a reply that would force me to the dictionary, I simply throw in the towel. Uncle !! You win!! :D :D

But - they are still - sooner or later- some jurisdiction or other - gonna hook you on jury duty. Give them the line you just gave me, and both sides will rush to get you far, far away from the jury deliberations.

Zach England
04-21-2011, 12:57 PM
OK, Zach - no problem on my end, for sure. Plus - anytime someone gives me a reply that would force me to the dictionary, I simply throw in the towel. Uncle !! You win!! :D :D

But - they are still - sooner or later- some jurisdiction or other - gonna hook you on jury duty. Give them the line you just gave me, and both sides will rush to get you far, far away from the jury deliberations.

And it is a valid excuse. There may be circumstances in which I could not adequately view evidence.

Zach England
04-21-2011, 1:00 PM
I also just realized that my occupation--since I work in the background check industry and have access to a lot of sensitive data concerning criminal records--may exclude me.

Ken Fitzgerald
04-21-2011, 1:16 PM
What is interesting.......I have a son who is a deputy sheriff and it has yet to get my wife and I excused from jury duty.

Jim Koepke
04-21-2011, 8:18 PM
I have never been called, but I am young (27). Is jusry notification taken off of voter registration rolls? That doesn't seem right, but I hope it is because I am not and never will be registered to vote :).

At the same time, I am visually impaired, so I think that would excuse me.

Actually, the saying is, "justice is blind." In many cases it might not be necessary to see the evidence. In some cases you may have some evidence that is visual.

As a side note, listen to Arlo Guthrie's Alice's Restaurant. It gets funny when the police man is sitting there with, "a dozen black & white photos, with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one and the judge walks in with a seeing eye dog. It was an open and shut case of American blind justice."

Some states also use driver's license information and even census information. The more trouble they have getting jurors, the more sources they will use.

jtk

Jim Koepke
04-21-2011, 8:21 PM
What is interesting.......I have a son who is a deputy sheriff and it has yet to get my wife and I excused from jury duty.

If he is the arresting officer or a witness, it will.

jtk

Ken Fitzgerald
04-21-2011, 8:21 PM
I will remind everyone that political discussions and comments are not allowed at this website.

This thread is about serving on juries not about elections.

Chris Kennedy
04-21-2011, 8:25 PM
I have been called a couple of times, though I have never ended up serving. I can completely understand people wanting to "get out of it" because it is a major disruption in life. The last time I was called, I received an initial questionnaire and after the general purpose questions, there was a space for comments that might effect your service. I received this in early March, and in that section, I stated I was a professor, and that it would be preferable to serve after May 1 when classes were out, my student wouldn't have a disruption by having a change in professor, and my colleagues wouldn't be taxed by having to cover my classes. It was readily apparent that my comments were completely ignored because I was immediately scheduled. Now, I could ask for a deferral, which I did, but then my chair and I both had to write letters (which we did) and then the judge decided it was okay to defer me.

Seems inefficient to me . . . .

Cheers,

Chris

Bill Cunningham
04-21-2011, 10:09 PM
A friend of mine spent a year and a half on a jury for a murder trial. In Canada, the Just-Us Industry can crawl along at a crippled snail's pace. He worked for that big blue computer company, and his contract covered full pay during that period. In cases like this where the company covers the wages, the jury pay reverts to the employer. He was getting close to retirement, and being 'out of the loop' for 1.5 years put him at a distinct disadvantage. So, when the trial was over he retired to the golf course.. I have been excused from Jury duty because I'm a one man business, and it would create a hardship to say the least. However, I am disappointed that i never got called up when I was a community college teacher. The union would have covered my pay as well, and I would have probably got an education in modern drug paraphernalia:D

Bryan Morgan
04-23-2011, 1:28 AM
Not quite. It gives you the ability to reach a verdict that is contrary to the letter of the law. It's the spirit of the law that's most important, so a jury can use nullification to side-step the letter of the law and reach a verdict appropriate to the situation in front of them.

Right, but after several juries reaching the same conclusion on the same law its now precedent...

Bryan Morgan
04-23-2011, 1:31 AM
I have always wanted to be a juror. Recently I made it as far as selection, but was rejected by the lawyers. It was very interesting and I took it seriously.

I never understood the desire by so many people to "get out of it".

Mike

For me, its monetary. These days I simply can't afford to be absent from work without pay. My work made us use up all our vacation hours and they certainly don't pay days off for jury duty. My wifes jury duty cost us $1200 for the couple weeks she was out. She got a check for $90. We can't pay the mortgage with that... That, and I have 0 faith in the current legal system and refuse to be part of the sham... I believe %90 of current law is invalid, how can I be honest and find someone guilty of something I don't believe in in the first place?

Jim O'Dell
04-23-2011, 2:12 PM
I have never figured out why but in the nearly 29 years we have lived here.....every other year either my wife or I get selected for jury duty. I have a neighbor who has lived here all of his life....he's 4 years older than I......a stand up....never been arrested citizen.....he's been selected 1 time.....

Though I've been called, I have never had to serve and yet my wife has set through a couple trials......

One time I got selected and the entire jury pool got thrown out as all of us received a form letter from friends of the two defendents. Turns out locally, the defense lawyer receives a list of all potential jurists before the trial.

Most judges would lock the lawyer up for jury tampering.

I've been called 3 times for jury duty. Selected one time...Capital Murder case. Sequestered for 9 days of the 14 day trial. One of the best things I've had the privilege to be part of in my life. You really get to see how the system works. During voir dire (did I spell that right?) the judge had read through my 57 page questionnaire and said something like "I see you graduated from Baylor. I graduated from there in 195X. I think you will do fine." Of course, both prosecutor and defense teams had to approve also. I think I was #347 in the jury pool, so I bet they had used most of their veto cards. :rolleyes: And I was the 10th one chosen. Lots of memories. Most good, a couple that were tough. Jim.

Ken Fitzgerald
04-23-2011, 2:42 PM
Jim,

There was no absolute method of proving how the friends of the two defendants got the names of the jury pool that had been selected. The judge addressed us and stated if he could prove from whom and how the names of the jury pool were gained, he would prosecute the individuals involved.

Shawn Pixley
04-23-2011, 3:07 PM
I get called for jury duty every two years. I have served on juries as foreperson many times. Personally I feel this is our civic duty. I would only hope for those who find themselves in court that they would appreciate a jury of reasonsable men and women, rather than the slack jawed yokels I have seen. For those who eish to use Jury nulification as an excuse to get out of jury duty (rather than on the individual circumstances of the case and facts presented), I find that particularly un-American. Inconvenience is a poor excuse for not doing the right thing. Everyone dhould have the right to a fair trial by a jury of their peers. My opinion only, I could be wrong.

Ben Hatcher
04-28-2011, 1:03 PM
Arlo Guthrie's Alice's Restaurant..., "a dozen black & white photos, with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one and the judge walks in with a seeing eye dog. It was an open and shut case of American blind justice."

jtk

the line is "twenty-seven 8 by 10 colour glossy photos"

Bonnie Campbell
04-28-2011, 1:24 PM
I just got a jury summons this week.... For Mississippi. I called and told them I live about 2500 miles outside of their area lol Now I have to mail a statement asking to be removed from their voter rolls.

David Larsen
04-28-2011, 7:06 PM
I think someone is missing the point of Jury Nullification. It is not an excuse to get out of jury duty. It is not an available option for every jury trial. Yes, it may have a place in some trials, but it isn't always applicable. If you say you believe in it for every case, then you are basically saying that you do not believe in our constitution. For that, you should find another country to live in.

Tony Daurio
04-29-2011, 11:15 AM
Jury Duty is fine if you work for someone else. I'm self employed. Jury duty means closing down my business for as long as the trial lasts. Especially annoying if the case is someone suing Granny Smith because they didn't realize the pie they just took out of the oven was too hot to eat.....:)

mickey cassiba
04-30-2011, 1:48 AM
I have never been called up, Charlotte was once, but rejected due to health. Nothing profound to add.

Bryan Morgan
05-01-2011, 1:32 AM
Jury Duty is fine if you work for someone else. I'm self employed. Jury duty means closing down my business for as long as the trial lasts. Especially annoying if the case is someone suing Granny Smith because they didn't realize the pie they just took out of the oven was too hot to eat.....:)

Its not fine if your employer doesn't pay for it and you are on a razor thin budget as it is. Sorry, not being able to pay a mortgage is not worth someone else's bad behavior. Just who is getting punished here? I'd find them guilty just for creating hardships on my life.

Douglas Clark
05-04-2011, 2:53 AM
Hey, good timing! I've got jury duty next week. I was originally called last month, but they let me put it off for a month because my wife was about to have a baby. They gave me a whole month and then the next invite arrived exactly when they said it would.

By the time I was 21 it seemed I'd been called to jury duty more than several 60-year-olds I knew. I've been seated several times, dismissed nearly as many but actually sat through one criminal trial (gang shooting) where we sent the dude to jail. My dad is an attorney and practiced in the county where I live for several years and so I got to know a lot of lawyers personally, which is good because they are more likely to dismiss you when they know you (unless you know both attorneys on either side of the case, which actually happened to me once).

Last time I was seated, I think I discovered a tactic that helps if you're seated in a criminal case. I spent a lot of time looking at the defendant and made eye contact several times. I think it made the dude pretty nervous, because I was one of the first guys his attorney dismissed. It probably also helped that I was a well dressed and well educated young father of three kids. Guess he was afraid that I couldn't be objective about the child abuse charges he was facing. He might have been right, but luckily we didn't have to find out, because instead I heard "Counsel would like to thank and dismiss Mr. Clark today" Man, I love those words!

Marty Paulus
05-04-2011, 7:33 AM
During some of my college classes on basic law the lawyer/instructor told us that when dealing with the law only one thing is certain. The law is what the next judge decides it is.

David Larsen
05-04-2011, 1:12 PM
There is always another side to "most" coins.

Have someone in the field of law tell lies (proven) and get away with it and you will change your view of jury duty too. Go to an "extremely" top notch lawyer and be told you may have a case but it's not cost effective and see how you feel. Get reamed financially, while innocent and having offered 6 polygraphs, then see how you view serving on jury duty. If you are called to serve and it involved the police, how well would you do serving on that case after having the above happen to you?

My point: People remove themselves from jury duty for reasons unknown or unrealized to many people on this board who may think they know otherwise. It's not always too "get out of doing your civil duty".

I am being called next week. If the police are involved, I won't be serving and the Judge will cut me off and excuse me before I can explain why "in full" as I have seen this happen being that it's my 3rd time being called. Lawyers promise the jury will award you well, but.......I want this much up front and 1/3. Fair? I don't think so. Yes they deserve compensation, but at what cost?

Jury Duty can be rewarding, but it depends on the case and your own personal life experiences. Getting out of jury duty is simple and either one side or the other will not want you on it based off your comments, especially if it involves the police combined with either negative or positive responses towards them. No special tactics needed.

David

This isn't meant as a personal dig towards you, but it appears that you are saying that all are bad or corrupt based on a bad experience. If you go into jury duty with that kind of chip on your shoulder, it wouldn't be fair justice for either side.

David Larsen
05-04-2011, 4:02 PM
You are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own set of facts (Daniel Moynihan).

In a nutshell, you are wrong, period. I actually said I wouldn't serve and would get out of it so where would the injustice be? I am not making any decisions so where would there not be fair justice, as you so aptly put it. A chip on my shoulder? More like my family and I got screwed and have never been in trouble with the law, ever. You wanna walk in our shoes and then have someone claim it "appears" you have a chip on your shoulder? It's called personal life experience and it's what shapes us all.

As I said, people remove themselves from jury duty for all types of reasons, many of them are justified as to not be unfair to either party involved. I call that smart and honorable versus the overly used phrase "doing your civil duty". If you have bias and admit it, then it's much better than lying about it and making an unfair decision that isn't based soley on the information given during a trial.

David

I respectfully disagree. That is like me saying that everyone with the name David Cramer cannot be trusted just because I once knew a guy named David Cramer that told a lie! Every set of circumstances has a different ending. An open mind sees what the eyes cannot! If you are biased toward someone or something based on a bad experience and cannot see past it, then that chip carries with you everywhere you go. If I get called to jury duty and I know the suspect is named David Cramer, does that mean he is automatically guilty? If I had a bad experience with someone named David Cramer, it shouldn't automatically qualify me to claim a bias in every case that involves someone named David Cramer.

Ken Fitzgerald
05-04-2011, 7:15 PM
Please stop the one-upmanship-arguments. Obviously neither of you two will change your stands on the subject so there is nothing more to gain by continuing this line.

David Larsen
05-04-2011, 8:13 PM
This is not intended as an argument or one-upmanship.

I just want to believe that the system works. Yes, it may fail some people along the way. That can happen because it isn't perfect. I don't know of anything that works perfectly forever.

What I do know is the following: You are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Yes, you could probably be held in jail for a short time until court, but that has to be based on probable cause for an initial arrest. A judge would then review the case and decide if there is probable cause to detain further. Could law enforcement lie to establish probable cause, Yes, but a court of law would still have to find you guilty of a crime using proof beyond a reasonable doubt.

There are bad eggs out there. What would that particular law enforcement officer have to gain by falsely accusing someone of a crime? There is evil and corruption in law enforcement, but it appears that it is usually linked to some type of gain on the part of the officer that is corrupt. I don't know your facts, but I would venture to guess that if a law enforcement officer lied, he did it for some gain on his part. I would think that law enforcement officers have better things to do than put innocent people in jail. You could have been at the wrong place at the wrong time and that could lead a reasonable person to believe that you could have been involved. Being at the wrong place at the wrong time sometimes is out of a person's control.

One funny part is that you could go and visit a jail and most of the inmates would TELL you that they are innocent! LOL Are they? The system isn't that messed up. I think the guilty cannot truly rehabilitate until they can admit guilt. I have seen people firsthand that have lied to themselves so much that they truly believe they are innocent. They will then go through life blaming everyone else but themselves.

The bottom line of the point I was trying to make is that there are thousands and thousands of law enforcement officers out there. A certain percentage is probably corrupt. (A certain percentage of pretty much any profession has some level of corruption). BUT, just because you had a bad experience with one doesn't mean the whole lot is bad. So, going to jury duty and saying you have a bias anytime a case involves law enforcement seems unfair when your bone to pick is with a certain officer and not the group as a whole.

I would hope that if a law enforcement officer lies intentionally that he is held accountable. Maybe not today or tomorrow, but that behavior will eventually catch up with him. It sounds like your beef is with someone in particular.

Polygraph testing isn't normally admissible in court. It also isn't foolproof. Much of it is subject to interpretation by the evaluator. If it were foolproof and always accurate, it would be admissible.

Greg Cuetara
05-04-2011, 8:35 PM
Well on another note I am 35 right now and have only been called once. I was in Grad school over 1,000 miles away so a quick letter got me out but I kind of wanted to go back home to participate. I have had a few friends get called to grand jury duty and they have said that lasts a month or two. Basically you have to go a few days a week and participate..seems like that could be much worse. Is it wrong for me to look forward to being called? If I was a one man shop or my work didn't pay for it I might see things very differently but that is not the case.

David Cramer
05-04-2011, 10:21 PM
Please stop the one-upmanship-arguments. Obviously neither of you two will change your stands on the subject so there is nothing more to gain by continuing this line.


My statements between Mr. Larsen and I were no problem to anyone, not even him or I. I disagree with him and him with I, but neither he nor I were complaining nor were we calling each other names. We simply disagree and you actually took the time to jump in with that post?

David

David Larsen
05-04-2011, 11:33 PM
My final words on this subject are that I am proud to live in the USA. Jury duty is part of that privilege. I have been called to jury duty before and showed up front and center. If called again, I will answer.

I too have been on the losing end of the court. I never did anything wrong. At least not intentionally or ignorantly. It did not seem fair at the time to lose because nobody wants to be on the losing end, but it was fair because it followed the law and the court processes!

Our system isn't perfect, but there are many systems out there that aren't near as fair.

There may be some bad eggs in the bunch that spoil it for some, but I believe that it is a fair and just system and that there are way more good eggs than bad. The system tries to give a person a fair shake. Maybe even a little bit too far on the liberal end of the spectrum for my taste, but it is what it is and liberal is viewed as giving the accused the best possible odds.

The system isn't perfect, but unless someone has a better idea, we need to do our part to keep it fair and just. Part of that is doing our duty to serve. Serve with honor and integrity and keep an open mind so that people are presumed innocent until proven guilty by a jury of their peers.

Joe Chritz
05-05-2011, 4:01 PM
Having been through more court proceedings than most I can tell you that the system is slow, clumsy and doesn't always work as it is meant to. That is from the pre-charge phase to the in court trial phase. Sometimes it is the nature of the beast. Sometimes it is a bad egg somewhere in the system on either side.

I can also tell you that as bad as the system is it is light years ahead of everywhere else. With freedom comes responsibility. Responsibility comes with obligation.

Joe

Kevin W Johnson
05-08-2011, 2:53 AM
I've been called once in 21 years, and all the cases that i was informed to show up for were plead out before the day i was to show up. It'd be a good thing for the people, and a bad thing for the accused (if evidence proves guilt), cause i have little patience or sympathy for criminals. Personally, i'd be a "hang'em" judge, if i were a judge. If i ran a prison...... we'll, we'd have to eliminate the ACLU... I'd put hard work into to hard time, among other things. Sorry, put prison should be so bad that no one would ever want to go back after getting out.