Critique Request

[John Hart]

Hi all,
I've got this piece on the lathe right now, and got the thing assembled and ready to do some final finishing touches on it (coves and stuff on the pedestal). But I really want this thing to turn out right, so I'd like to ask for some different perspectives from everyone here.

This is an Ambrosia Maple body, walnut collar and stem, Cherry mouth and base.
It stands 15" tall and 8" diameter. The mouth is 5" diameter. There's no finish on it yet.

I turned one pic vertical so you can get that perspective.

My questions are....Is the base too small?...and should I take some beef off of the stem?

Thanks for the help
191971191972

[Bill Bulloch]

Personally, John, I think I would like it best without a steam. But since you have one I have been trying to figure out which would look best: thin or thick. After a lot of thought, I think thin will make it look top heavy, so perhaps thick is better. The shape of the jar itself reminds me of a collector's bottle of British Navy Pusser's Rum I bought many years ago, it has a blue collar.

Let us know what you decide.

[Baxter Smith]

For what its worth, if you lose the beef I think it would look too frail/dainty. As far as the base goes, how close are you to 1/3 the width? If its not too tippy I think its fine. Cool looking creation!

[Roger Chandler]

John,

On this forum you are likely to get a bunch of different preferences, all of each posters different tastes...............I think you should step back, take a few different looks at it from different angles...............take a break, come back and look at it again...............likely your impressions of what would be best for the stem and base will be what is best.

It is hard to tell a lot from the pics, but it looks like your base is a bit smaller than your opening at the top..................you will have the best vantage point to decide the symmetry and flow of the curves....................If I were you, I would trust my own judgment more than any critique from the gallery here.............just my $.02.

[John Hart]

Thanks so far everyone...Yeah..I hate this second-guessing stuff. Drives me crazy.

Baxter...the base is 3.5"....mouth is 5"....body is 8"

[Baxter Smith]

Well, if you are at almost 50% of the width already, making it larger would only increase that percentage which would tend to reduce the gracefullness. Cut out a piece of cardboard to the shape of a base you think you might like and stick it in front of it and see what you think. Someone with a lot more taste than me will chime in shortly!

[Bernie Weishapl]

John I like it. I think if you thin the base and stem it will just take away from it.

[Scott Hackler]

John, as it stands its pretty good. Very "Hart"ish. I think it has a good visual balance and the components work very well with each other. If I was to alter anything I might be inclined to thin the pedestal just a tad to create a flair at the top of the long part of the stem. Kinda attempting to replicate the flair at the top of the form. But in doing so it might thin the pedestal out too much ....so..... Probably best to just call it good!

[David E Keller]

I can't help you, buddy. I've been staring at the photos for about 30 minutes now, and I don't think I have anything to suggest. Your style is so distinctive that I have trouble mentally changing the forms. I think I like Scott's idea to thin the pedestal stem for a smooth curve. I like the size of the foot. I'm anxious to see it finished with better lighting.

[Steve Schlumpf]

John - very interesting project you have going here!

In answer to your question about the size of the base - I like it as is. Any bigger would draw attention away from the rest of the form, any smaller would also draw attention by raising the question of stability.

As far as the pedestal or stem - everything has to be proportioned so all the pieces work together. The diameter of the hollow form is 8" and that gives the appearance of bulk no matter how thin it was turned. The pedestal needs to look like it can support the perceived weight but can still be slightly thinner when turning sculpture.

You asked for a critique - I am guessing on the design - so, one area that I would change would be the pedestal. The curve looks smooth coming off of the foot but where it moves onto the body of the form - the flow is disrupted. Everything else in the piece has smooth curves - with the exception of that one area.

Another area for your consideration is the size of the throat area. If the mouth stayed the same but the throat area was reduced to 1/2 or 3/4 of it's present diameter - how would that affect the overall design?

Just opinions... Looking forward to seeing what you come up with! Have fun with it!

[John Hart]

First off...thanks so much for the insights. This helps a lot. :)

When I looked at the pedestal, I knew there just was something wrong, but couldn't pinpoint it. And with your feedback, I think I'm hearing the same thing. Steve has convinced me that there's a "flow" problem. So, I've decided to replace the stem entirely and try to improve that flow. I might be able to take a little off the throat, and I photoshopped it to see how that would look, and I'll have to agree that it adds a little more grace with a slightly narrower throat.

Might take a few days...but I'll give'r a go.

Thanks again all!

[John Hart]

Well....I put a new stem on this. Still thinking.

Maybe I'm over-thinkin'

Maybe I oughta just finish it and move on.

192291

[Steve Vaughan]

Maybe I'm looking at it backwards. It's really cool looking but as for what I'd do differently, I'd consider taking some of that flair off the top, maybe even 2/3's to 3/4's of it and put a small top on it with a short spindle type thingy.

[Roger Chandler]

A most unusual form, John..........unique and very well executed. I think your work here is first rate. Personally for my tastes, I liked the form of the first pedestal a little more, as it had, IMO, more visual interest, but wow, a well put together and unique piece for sure. Distinctly Hart designed for sure as well. Your flare on the neck is a dead give away on design.

[Tim Rinehart]

John, I like the elements of this piece, but struggle with proportions of bell to vessel. I think they are too close to each other.
I hope you don't object to my taking the liberty of photoshopping a couple variations to think how you may attempt this next time...assuming you want to move on with this one.192299 192300I like either one of these variations about equally...but that's just my taste.

[John Hart]

The one on the right reminds me of Beetlejuice, when he got his head shrunk. I'm kinda warmin' up to that!!

Thanks...I needed a chuckle. :)

[Dick Wilson]

John, I don't know if you ever do it but take it off the lathe and sit it on bench upside down. You would be amazed the different perspective it gives you. If it looks balanced and everything flows like that, chances are it will look good standing the way it should.

[John Hart]

Maybe I'm looking at it backwards. It's really cool looking but as for what I'd do differently, I'd consider taking some of that flair off the top, maybe even 2/3's to 3/4's of it and put a small top on it with a short spindle type thingy.

Thanks Steve...I think it's great that everyone looks at something and says, "this is what I'd do differently". I think that's cool because that's what defines us as woodturners and what we create. Each piece is like a portrait. :)

....I'll try to express what I'm trying to do so maybe you can get into my head a little bit (Which might be Dangerous!! :eek:)

First off, I'm working hard to understand and execute a pedestal vase. Not a vase for flowers, but more along the line of sculpture to be displayed much the same as ornamental pottery.

Second, I am very attracted to ancient Egyptian, Roman, and Grecian pottery styles (which are noted for their very wide and very narrow mouths)....Plus a little Victorian highlight here and there.

Thirdly...outside of the Woodturners world (you know....the regular normal people)...when folks look at my work...the first thing they pick up and fondle is the multi-wood, pedestal, very narrow or very wide mouthed vases.....and I get oohs and ahhs. (Not so much with the traditional pieces)

I have done a fair amount of finials (not real nice finials...but they are spindly things that go on top :)) And the response usually is, "What's this thing for?"

I've never been a seller, so I just go by how visitors, friends, family, co-workers react.

A couple weeks ago, people from a gallery came to inspect my shop. They walked in...went to the table where I had a bunch of pieces....and what did they pick up? A smaller, wide-mouthed, Multi-wood, pedestal vase that got negative reviews from my peer woodturners. The woman said, "Oh my...look at this...now how much would you sell this for?"

So anyway...sorry for the long yakkin'. I guess my point is, there are some things I won't change much...the exaggerated large and small mouth, and wood combinations are big fundamental features to me.

I have a lousy eye for form...or at least I have a lousy way of expressing why I like or dislike something. Like a blind man, I listen very intently to what my fellow woodturners are saying....and if there's a flaw in my execution....I change it immediately....if it is a personal taste observation I try to incorporate it in a future piece for diversity-sake.

People like David DeCristoforo just drive me crazy. He can see and describe beauty as if it were part of his genetic make-up to do so. I need a tech manual.:o


A most unusual form, John..........unique and very well executed. I think your work here is first rate. Personally for my tastes, I liked the form of the first pedestal a little more, as it had, IMO, more visual interest, but wow, a well put together and unique piece for sure. Distinctly Hart designed for sure as well. Your flare on the neck is a dead give away on design

Thanks for lying, Roger. You made my day :) And the next piece waitin' in the wings will have more character in the pedestal.



John, I don't know if you ever do it but take it off the lathe and sit it on bench upside down. You would be amazed the different perspective it gives you. If it looks balanced and everything flows like that, chances are it will look good standing the way it should.

Nope...thanks Dick. Never tried that..until today. And what I see is highlighted in this picture. I won't do anything about it...But I'll remember it. ;)
192309

Thanks again, all! :)