Rubbing out high gloss finish

[Bob Turkovich]

I've been trying to repair the top of my MIL's Ethan Allen cherry dining room table. The table top has a high gloss finish but there is an underlying pattern of fine "along-the grain" scratches (I have no idea what caused them) as well as some deeper cross-grain scratches. None of them appear to be through the top clear coat. Being my first time playing with an existing high gloss finish, I thought it would be a good opportunity to try hand rubbing out the scratches.

I started on one leaf of the table as an experiment. I first used 4F pumice + paraffin oil appled with a felt block. I then followed with rottenstone + paraffin oil also applied with a felt block. I then finished up with a burnishing cream (applied with a cotton cloth) topped off with a coat of Johnson's paste wax. I got exactly the results that I had hoped for.

Here's the problem: All that rubbing has flared up bursitis in my shoulder. I first had the bursitis problem earlier this year when hand sanding a different project. A cortisone shot took care of it....until I started hand rubbing the table. Using the opposite hand just caused that shoulder to flare up.

Is there a tool-assisted way of doing all of the rubbing? Based on my internet searching, manufacturers use a special double padded "sander" with a felt pad. I can't find any felt pads to fit my 4 1/2" Ridgid/Hitachi sanders.

Another question: When I was researching the hand rubbing process, I came upon a thread on a different forum that recommended letting the finish "rest" 24-48 hours between the various steps. When I practiced on the table leaf, I happened to accidentally do just that. Is that "resting" really necessary?

[Scott Holmes]

I would skip the pumice and the rottenstone... Pumice is too coarse for a previously buffed surface. (just more work for your shoulder, that's not needed)

Rottenstone is "old school" the new MicroMesh sanding papers go from 1500 to 12,000 grit, use oil to lube and forget the messy old school stuff.

MicroMesh is available in 5" disks for you ROS.

[Rob Cunningham]

You could also try Menzerna polishing compounds. I've used them with a 6" automotive buffer and have produced a high gloss finish. Both Target Coatings and Homestead Finishing carry Menzerna.

[Dave Gaul]

Bob, there was a recent article in WOOD that described a method using a variable speed ROS (on it's lowest setting) or a power buffer on it's lowest setting. You start with flat sanding, then wet sanding up to a fine grit, maybe it was 1000 or so, then you switched to car polish & the power buffer/ROS.
Might be worth digging up the article. I tried this method on a recent night stand that was top coated with several coats of laquer, and it came out beautifully!

[Prashun Patel]

I'm with the guys who recommend an automotive buffer/polisher. Those compounds are very good. There's usually a 2 step process: some kind of swirl remover, then a polisher. The micromesh/ROS can be good too, but you have to keep the paper lubricated or else it will clog. I have just found it harder to work with than the automotive compounds - but plenty of hobbyists like myself have had great experience with Micromesh.

The buffer makes large areas go smoothly and evenly. You can also get a foam or terry cloth bonnet for your ROS that'll work in lieu of a power buffer.

As far as letting the finish 'rest', you do have to let it cure (i.e., reach full hardness) before you begin the process. This can take from days to a month. On your MIL's table, it's certainly cured by now. But on new finishes, you have to do this to allow the finish to get hard enough to respond to the finer abrasives.

Further, as the topcoat cures, it can shrink into the pores of the wood, resulting in a surface that is not perfectly level. The rougher compounds/abrasives in the rubbing out process level the finish to be perfectly flat again - which is essential to getting a high gloss finish.

I've not heard of requiring rest BETWEEN the various rubbing out steps (except for giving any solvent used to wipe off any slurry enough time to evaporate completely so you can see your work properly).

[Howard Acheson]

Be very careful using power tools for what you want to do. They are very aggressive and will quickly cut through the finish. Starting and stopping the tools are a particularly touchy thing to do. Work very slowly and check frequently to see how it is going.

Personally, I use hand tools for repair and final polishing operations except for application of a final "swirl remover".

[John Coloccia]

Howard has a good point here. The major pain in the butt of finishing a guitar is building up enough of a finish to level and buff. That's why we end up doing 10+ coats of lacquer. I would never spend that kind of time on a furniture finish I didn't intend to attack with a buffing wheel. Do be careful.

[Bob Turkovich]

Gentlemen,

Sorry for not getting back sooner but I've come back out of retirement to my old company on a part-time consulting basis. Unfortunately, the past week was significantly more than part-time :( ( Hey, maybe there's a new table saw in this if I keep it up :rolleyes: ... after the new countertops and carpeting for the missus, of course ;).)

I don't think just using the polishing compound will be enough to remove the cross-grain scratches so I need to do some sort of particle rubbing or the micro mesh Scott suggested. ( I now remember you recommending Micro Mesh in earlier threads, Scott...) I do have a concern however using a ROS. My experience with ROS in sanding past projects is that somewhere along the line I get the leading edge of the sander into the work leaving a distinct wear mark. Is there some technique I should use when the ROS in first touching the wood to prevent this? If I were to forego the ROS, is hand sanding with the MicroMesh less labor than using pumice/rottenstone?

The good news is I have access to a Porter Cable dedicated auto polisher for the final steps - I should know - I bought one for my son last Xmas to use on his Challenger :D - happened to help him use it two weeks ago. We tried it on my car first, of course. :rolleyes: I was pretty amazed at how easily it removed clear coat scuff marks.

Would the Meguier's polishing compound be acceptable for wood finish? My son already has five different levels of their abrasives on his shelf. I'm pretty sure they are silicone-free.

Thanks for your advice so far, guys.

BTW - this must be a personal record for emoticon use......

[Scott Holmes]

Bob,

If I were to forego the ROS, is hand sanding with the MicroMesh less labor than using pumice/rottenstone?

I would say that the labor of using MM vs Pumice and Rotten stone is close; the CLEAN UP is MUCH faster and easier.

I feel the MM is also more effiecent, it seems to progress faster.