what do you do? buy less lathe wanting more? Buy more lathe and feel guilty?

[John Nowack]

need some honest opinions. More on the overall decision and maybe a little on the lathes. they are both great machines IMHO so it not a matter of which is better it's more the overall financial question.
Been turning 4 years planning to continue...
1. buy the 2 hp jet? big upgrade from current. has all the bells and whistles. WILL definitely upgrade to a powermatic sometime in life. High price but can pull it off without much remorse...will be left wishing i just went ahead and got the PM
2. get the 2hp powermatic? has everything and is as big as I could ever imagine needing. would think it would last a lifetime with maintenance...big time guilt on the price tag though...

this is coming from a guy that has his family on the dave ramsey style of life...family lives within our means and watches every penny...either way this purchase would be the 3rd or 4th most expensive thing we own outside of house and cars...but it a selfish purchase

WHAT WOULD YOU DO?!?!?!?!?

[Steve Vaughan]

Nah, not a selfish purchase at all. It just looks like that to some folks. Think of all the things you'll be making and giving away. See, that's really how you gotta think about that sort of thing. But seriously, I'd go with the powermatic, hands down. You'll be, as you say, buying once. I'm betting that Dave would say do that - why spend lots of money, and then turn around and spend lots of money? And, just to remind you, he would also tell you to pay cash for it and you'll be able to get an even better price! Commercial here - Have taken Dave's Financial Peace University course - it is without a doubt, the way to think of your future!

[John Nowack]

ok....who do I talk to on the cash part becasue I was a little disapointed at teh $3,900 price tag now....thought they were closer to $3,000 at least... love dave style thinking...it's really nothign my grandma and grandpa din't teach me but te program keeps it fresh and simple in your mind....just a real hard decition based on the way we live our life...

[philip labre]

I'm with Steve. Dave would say buy once, pay cash and be done. I had a Grizzly 18x47 on backorder for a month and a half which gave me plenty of time to drool over the Mustard. My wife finally got tired of me questioning my decision and told me to just get what I wanted instead of settling and regretting, having to make another purchase in the future. I cancelled the Griz and got the Mustard. It was nice of her eliminating the guilt for me. One thing though, I have an unlimited supply of free BIG hardwoods, just have to go pick it up. If you don't expect to turn really big wood the Jet would be a great choice. A bowl larger than 16" is HUGE, i didn't realize how big till I turned one and am not sure what I will do with a 19"x10" curly ash bowl, but I have one. That being said, to quote SWMBO "Just get what you want".

[David DeCristoforo]

If you are going to feel guilty about buying a lathe that will serve you well for as far into the future as you can see, you need to try some meditation techniques that will help you to relax your grip on reality and allow the vortex to gently pull you in. There are many here who can help you with this.

[Jon Prouty]

watch CL... there is an almost new PM on CL here in Phx listed for 2500 that I am resisting due to Dave's program. I bet you could put it in ypur truck for 2200 if you show him a wad of hundreds.

JP

[Brian Libby]

I had the same situation this winter. Go with Jet or PM ???!!!!
I went with the PM -I HAVE NOT ONCE REGRETTED IT !
It was a lot more $$$$$$$'s but it is a lot more machine.

[George Guadiane]

(ONLY IF YOU ARE COMMITTED TO TURNING) buy the big one and feel SMART.
Let me say, that the 2HP Jet is an outstanding machine, and anyone should be able to have GREAT success with it. If the Powermatic is your dream lathe, why spend money on anything else?
If you buy the middle, intending to buy the larger in the future, you will spend a lot more money, over time. If you're going to get the big one, GET IT!
You're talking about spending thousands for something you're going to upgrade. Why not get the upgrade and save the middle cost. It might be a bit financially painful up front, but it will cost less now than in a couple/few years - look at prices over the last 5, up, UP, UP! And it doesn't look like things will get cheaper.

Also, you only have to adapt once.
Had I known how much I would love woodturning, I would have bought a Powermatic FIRST, instead of spending hundreds on a "beginner" lathe. I may have to replace bearings or a shaft or something, but I'll never feel a NEED to upgrade the lathe.
Just my opinion.

[Ed Sandle]

Guilty? No such thing. Started with a Woodfast 20" years ago when I was first interested in woodturning years ago. Looked at it alot, but never really got started turning with it. Sold it five years ago when I retired, and bought a Oneway 2436, as I was sure woodturning was one of the things I really wanted to do. After two years, I sold the Oneway, and bought a Robust. I now love being in my shop, and turning. While the Robust was a substantial investment, it is just a joy to use, and I can't imagine ever wanting anything else. A few members in our club have Powermatic's, and are very happy with them. My advice, get the best lathe you can, as you will never regret it. That being said, if finances are a deciding issue, I would consider buying a good used big lathe, vs a new mid sized lathe, that you would always want to get rid of in the future, for a full sized lathe.

[Greg Just]

It was easy for me. The PM was too expensive for my budget so I went with the Jet. It was too costly to get a 220 line to my shop so that left me with the 1.5 hp Jet. I have had it about a month and love it. Maybe someday I'll upgrade to a bigger machine, but I think the one I got will be good for a long time.

[Dale Miner]

(ONLY IF YOU ARE COMMITTED TO TURNING) buy the big one and feel SMART.


I agree with what George said (I think? Should I be afraid? :) ).

There are about a thousand or more factors that enter into the equation. Your age, your turning style, the items you turn, the market for the items you turn, the availability of larger wood, the amount of guilt, the cash situation of your family, collage funds for the kids, the accesories and tools you already have, etc, etc. If you can envision spending most of your free time turning four, five, ten years from now, then the difference in cost between the two is not much on a per year basis. If the machine gets little use, or falls into disuse in a year, then the difference is substantial. Resale of the 3520 will be easier, and probably at a higher percentage of the new cost. The difference in the new versus used in actual dollars is probably higher with the 3520.

I demo on a 1.5 1642 frequently. It is a good machine. It is not as much machine as the 3520b out in the shop, but it is a good machine. If I would have bought the 1642 instead of the 3520, I doubt that an upgrade to a 3520 would take place. Any upgrade from a 1642 would probably have been to a Robust, Stubby, Serious, or most likely a home built. The two largest anemic qualities in using the 1.5 1642 vs the 2.0 3520b are the horsepower, and the mass of the machine. A 2.0 1642 solves one of the issues, bags of sand would go a long way towards the other. Another 'would be nice' is a longer banjo, but 13" bowls with the stock banjo and toolrest are comfortably do able. BTW, 18" bowls are monsters with a limited market, at least in this area.

With all the factors involved in making the decision, it would be tough to give advice on what machine will serve you best. Either one will perform well.

[David E Keller]

I'd go for the powermatic if you think it'll be your last lathe... There's no way to be sure, but I've had mine about a year and a half, and I couldn't be happier. I'm all for the Ramsey plan, but Dave doesn't say anything about settling. There's a huge turning club in Tulsa, so you might check with those folks and see if anybody is looking to move a used machine. You've got a couple of good options listed, but I wouldn't recommend buying your second choice whichever that might be.

[Jack Mincey]

I have to sayings that may help. It is better to buy the best the first time so you will not be thinking what if in the future. The second one is that it is better to have it and not need it than the need it and not have it. The extra swing the extra weight and much better banjo of the PM is worth the difference between the two in my mind. I don't need the 24" swing on my lathe but a few times a year, I would hate to have to trim some of the big blanks down to fit a smaller swing if I didn't.
Jack

[David DeCristoforo]

Told ya....

[Joe Scarfo]

I remember the same conundrum... a want add solved it for me.. I bought a used mustard... and love it.

Look at it this way... spending money on an intermittent lathe, is not good. Why spend the money on an intermittent lathe knowing long term you're getting the mustard anyway? The longer you wait, the more the price goes up.

Thanks and good luck w/ your choice.

[Mike Peace]

Does your wife support it?
Can you can pay cash without jeopardizing your lifestyle?
Do you plan on turning for years?

If the answer to all is yes, the guilt won't last long. You will smile every time you turn on your 3520. I am glad I spent the extra for a PM over a Jet 1642. I felt like if I bought the Jet, I would eventually wish I had gone ahead and gotten the PM.

[John Nowack]

OOMMM.....OOOMMM.....LAMA..LAMA..LAMA...OOOMMMMMMM M..... Sorry David, What was that??? I was meditating....the cosmos and the vortex almost has my sub-conscious talked into spending more than I want but on Exactly what I want for a change OOmmmmm

[John Fabre]

I had bought four lathes over nine years time, if I was to do it over, i'll buy a used Powermatic.

Mike P. said it best, pay cash for it.

[Jim Burr]

Buy big, turn big...big happy

[Hayes Rutherford]

Feel guilty buying a lathe? Can't happen.

Remember........ It's o.k. to spend money on woodturning and woodturning enjoyment is directly proportional to the weight of the lathe.

[mike ash]

I'm a slow learner............

I first bought a Jet 1236 because I didn't have the experience to understand what I would eventually be doing with wood turning and I didn't have anyone to ask what to do. I just thought I would like to do wood turning. The 1236 was OK to learn on, but I quickly outgrew it and moved then to a Jet 1642 (2HP) because I knew I wanted the bigger swing and more power, plus the variable speed control. The 1642 has been a great lathe for 5 years, lots of features, plenty of power, fairly good weight. I found that I was salvaging a number of trees that would accomodate larger pieces than the 1642 would handle. The FINALLY figured out that the 3520B fit exactly what I wanted and when I spotted a sale price of $3200 delivered.....I jumped!!!! The bad news is that this whole learning experience cost me a few $$. The good news is that I finally have what I should have gotten in the first place.

[Dan Forman]

If you can afford it, get the PM now, then skip the feeling guilty part. Figure that you saved the money you would have lost by buying then selling the Jet.

Dan

[Bernie Weishapl]

I would go with the PM. You will save money on the upgrades over time. Have you checked with Sean at Tool Nut to see what he could do for price. Everything I have read he will be the price and a lot of times shipping is minimal.

[John Keeton]

John, first of all, unless you have done all the prerequisite steps, Dave Ramsey would not approve of buying a lathe of any kind!! And, if you have met all of the "baby steps", and are "on the program" then I believe Dave would tell you that for a hobby, that money comes dead last! I know I am going against the flow here, and I know nothing about your financial situation, nor have you indicated what you want to turn.

I just went from the Delta 46-460 to the Jet 2hp. I do love the Jet - lot of power and torque, and I did turn a 14" bowl. However, after turning the bowl, I think bowls larger than that would have limited use and marketability - it is a BIG bowl. But, on the other hand, there is a lot of "art" that can be turned larger than the capacity of the Jet- should one have that desire.

IF, and I do mean IF, you have fully met the goals of Dave's program, and you think your situation justifies a "selfish" purchase as you put it, then the PM may be the right decision. It was not for me. I could have easily afforded the PM - but, I couldn't justify it.

[BILL DONAHUE]

I'd suggest taking your time and loooking for a used PM 3520. They keep going up in price and I would guess that the demographics alone will keep the price of used ones up in the future. Let's face it, woodturning is an old fart's activity and with the aging of the baby boomers interest in woodturning will continue to grow. Buy a used one now and if you lose interest in it later you will probably not lose anything on it. Dave Ramsey would be proud of you.

[neil mackay]

Well having regrets at a purchase is called 'buyers remorse' and is very common. We all go through it at some stage, why? Because all sales are based on emotion. Women are far better at this and understand the concept much better than men. They have pedicures,manicures, new hair styles etc, why? Because it makes them feel good and special. We just need to catch up with what the women folk have known for decades.

Having said that, we, all of us need to spend time doing things for our selves this is normal and healthy and as Vaughn has pointed out, its something that many will benefit from over time.

As long as the purchase does not effect your life negatively I see no reason not to buy quality. If you buy lesser items and slowly build up to the one you want over time, suggests to me a money loss as you buy and sell.

[ed hoxter]

john, teach your family to use it and enjoy making things and it becomes an investment in family entertainment ed

[Gary Max]

Mustard------------nuf said

[Cathy Schaewe]

I'm really happy with my jet 1642 - but if you're seriously thinking about the pm already, get it.
Life is just too short. Don't feel guilty - that wastes waaaaay too much time!

[Donny Lawson]

I will agree fully with John, I almost copied him. I also had the Delta 46-460 and shopped around and went back and forth about a lathe. I even thought of a PM until I saw the price of 3900.00. I could have probally bought one but I thought the Jet 1642 would fit in my budget much better. I thought of the 2hp jet but I figured the 1.5hp would turn all I wanted. I think most bowls or platters over 14-15" would not sell well anyway.I did start off with a 15" bowl this morning and that was a big piece of wood. For the money I saved I bought some extra tools and a nice burning machine which I've been wanting for a while. The person who taught me to turn bowls had a 20" Ambrosia bowl that he turned on his lathe and I thought that it was big enough to use as a sink. Nice piece but way to big for me. Think of it this way, when the Jets go sale you can buy 2 Jets for one PM. That crossed my mind. Don't get me wrong PM are great but for the money I like my Jet.

[Ian Jeffcock]

No question here, go with the PM if you can afford it. If you ever decide to up grade or retire, you will probably be able to sell it in a few years for what you had paid. It is rare to find used ones, and usually not much savings. Watch and wait for PM special offers and check with Sean @ Tool Nut. The longer you wait the more you will kick yourself. Bite the bullet and let the shavings fly.

[Don Alexander]

if you have to ask this forum whether you should or shouldn't you obviously are having some doubts in which case don't do it!

the first and by far the most important person you need to discuss this or anything else with is your spouse

none of us here have any clue as to your actual financial situation therefore we have no way to give you the answer to your question
just some "if this, then do that" type of stuff either way if your wife isn't onboard there will be issues

as for the lathe itself you can't lose tool wise with either choice just my 2 cents

[Bob Bergstrom]

I think it should be said that the cost of the lathe is the cheap part. I've been turning some 38+ years and have spent far more on the accessaries. Things like a chainsaw, bandsaw, trailer to haul wood, vacuum pump, 45+ high speed tools, chucks, and so on. I gradually worked through 5 or 6 lathes up to my Powermatic. The largest bowl I've turned has been 24" and the blank weighed 140 lbs. I am almost 66 years old and getting that blank up was about all I could do. It is more of an ego trip to turn big, but I would buy another 3520 in a heart beat. The 2 hp. is only part of it. Banjo size, belt width, and extension make it a better built lathe than the Jet.

[Jeff Nicol]

First off I like to think that I am the person who I follow in my life. If I had to find someone else's idea of how to life life then I think I would be lost before I started. Life is what you make of it and what you enjoy doing is what you should be doing. That being said you are in a family that will be affected by what you do so they must be part of your decisions. Like already said if you have the cash and it won't hurt the family unit buying the PM would be what I would do and it is what I did. I had a little cheap chinese lathe that I still have for my first lathe. With that first lathe I made and sold enough items to pay for the PM3520B, and since I got the bigger lathe I have paid for it 3-4 times over again. So if you can buy it and generate some income from it, eventually you will put the money back into the family and their will be no guilt and should be no guilt. Then in the future your children can use it or inherit it and the legacy lives on. Tools are always an investment in my world, and over the years I have amassed a large collection of them and still want/need more.

So for me go for the Mustard and smile every time you turn it on!

Jeff

[John Lifer]

Well, I've been turning off and on for about 20 years now. Mainly off more than on. Turned a lot for the first few years, pretty poor Sears POJ lathe. But it paid for itself 10 times over. Bought an early Delta VS, It was not really much better than the Sears. Sold it for close to what I paid for it. Bought a small VS for pens, used it some. Sold the Sears just to get it out of shop. I now have an old Rockwell VS 45-450 from the '80s. Good solid lathe. Won't turn those 16" bowls, but that's not what I do. I don't have $1000 invested in the two lathes I have now, and I'd hate to spend $4K on a new lathe. Would be nice, but if you are really doing Dave's plan, search for a used lathe. Get a bargain and you will feel much the better for it. I've got a PM2000 TS that I got almost new for less than $1500 brought home into shop. They are out there, just keep looking and when you see one, JUMP on it.
You can then tell you wife you SAVED $XXXX Just my opinion.

[Baxter Smith]

Since you have been turning awhile and thinking about an upgrade, how long have you been watching Craigslist or checking with your local turning clubs? I picked up a used 3520A this summer with quite a few accessories for less than the cost of a Jet.
I had been thinking about the benefits of a lathe different from what I had. The cost of a new Jet or Powermatic was just more than I could justify. After turning on the Powermatic for the past 6 months, I might have to swallow hard, but I could now justify it and would definitely prefer not to have anything less.

[John Nowack]

Thanks all, but your absolutly no help @ all...i am right back where i started :-)----totally kidding of coarse....we do follow the "dave" plan as closley as we can....debt is not an option after all the hard work years ago....I thought about it and prayed a little...I came to grips with spending the money on a new PM then the 10pm new came on with all the storm and tornado damage.... SO I think I decided to either settle for the jet and spend the differance tword a storm shelter or wait patiently to find a used PM and still get the storm shelter..

so, guilt solved because the family is more safe and secure. I get an upgraded lathe and a shelter for about the same out of pocket


thanks for helping me wrap my head around it

[Scott Hubl]

Just from reading Your post without reading everyone elses first, i'd say you Know exactly which lathe you Really want.

If your at this point after 4 years and looking forward to many more years of turning, just get it over and Done with.

Like you said you'll be left Wishing if you buy the Jet. If you can swing the Gold Powermatic, DO IT now, the price is only going to go UP in the future, thats with all of them, so later it maybe further out of reach, things in life may also change and youd wish you had bought when you could have.

The 3520B is still more lathe than I will ever need, do I regret buying it? NO WAY! And if I ever wanted too, I could turn something as Big as i'd ever want,(or can get a log home big enough) and I can always turn a pen or bottlestopper on it.
Since I bought mine the price has continued to go up, just like everything elses prices have gone up, I am Glad I bought when I did, instead of holding off and paying More later for it. Had I waited, I most likely could Not afford to buy it now, and I knew that, so I Jumped when I could. It was the right time and the right deal for me at the time, had a $100.00 Rebate and was right before a price increase, it was Jump or forever Wishing I had done so.

I believe Sean at toolnut signed up here when I bought it from him to congratulate me on my purchase. And I am sure to sell a few more, which he has, mine and alot of others here have had nothing but Good to say about buying it from toolnut. Find your Best Deal first, then get on the phone to toolnut and they will beat it's price.

Why buy the Jet only later on taking the Loss selling it used, when you know you Want the Powermatic, that lost cash could have just been used towards the 3520B in the first place. IF, you can afford it now, then buy it, you won't regret it once you start turning on it, smooth as silk and power to spare.

I added most of the common options when I placed my order because I figured it was best to get it with the free shipping the lathe came with. At the time with the options I added and after the rebate I was just under 3 grand, not sure what it sells for now, I havent had to look or long for it since then. lol

Either lathe is a good choice but as you said yourself, youd be Wishing you bought the Powermatic.

I don't get to turn on mine as often as i'd like, my arm dictates what I can or can't do most days, and for how long, but when I do turn something the Powermatic is a Joy to use. I still Smile everytime I walk out into the shop and see it IN my shop. I'll Never need nor want to upgrade from it.

[kevin nee]

Buy the POWERMATIC spend a half day setting it up and you are DONE !

[Roy Turbett]

John - You never said what you are turning on now, only that you've been turning for four years. Can we assume that you have the chainsaw, bandsaw, sharpening system, tools and chucks you want? I'm relatively new to turning and have no plans to upgrade from my Powermatic 90 until I have the accessories I want and the lathe doesn't have the capacity to do what I want it to do. I have less than $800 in my newest PM 90 and that includes new spindle bearings and raising the headstock, tailstock and toolrests 3" to give me 18" of swing. I just turned a 15" ambrosia maple bowl and it was a real joy. Another thing I like about my PM 90 is that I'm confident I can sell it for what I have into it and still get to keep the chucks and tools if or when I decide to upgrade.

[John Nowack]

Well..... the final decition is made and the lathe has been ordered so it is a done deal...Roy, i have a delta 14' with the reeves drive that I am tired of working on all the time (and the noise is annoying to me)

guess the guilt will have to be dealt with cause I am going to be posting pics of my new MUSTARD!!! as soon as it gets hear

even better I got to bring LOML home one of Marion McDaniels (dallas texas) hand turned rabbits that he demoed last month....Won it in the "bring back raffle"

[John Keeton]

John, congratulations on making a decision. You will be happy with the PM, and the guilt will be fleeting. Given your due consideration, you probably made the right decision.

[Baxter Smith]

Tough decision but the regrets will be shorter lived this way! Enjoy!!

[Roy Turbett]

John - I too may get tired of my reeves drive when I have four years of experience but must admit that I've enjoyed rebuilding my machines as much as I have enjoyed turning on the them. Part of it too is nostalga as the first lathe I ever used was a PM 90 in middle school shop class. I get a chance to use a Powermatic 3520B at my club and several friends shops and must admit I do like that machine. One friend has a Serious and another has a big Oneway and I can't say that I like them any better than the one you bought. I'm sure you will get years of enjoyment out of your new lathe and that it will hold its value too. Enjoy your new purchase.

Roy

[Chip Sutherland]

Buy what you want. Guilt can be repressed with 1) alcohol (but only after turning) 2) therapy 3) confession 4) buying the wife something.

My wife encouraged me to get what I wanted. I went with cheaper. Happy for 4 years. But my lust for a mustard machine overwhelmed me. I kept my Reeves drive lathe and still use it but buffing and turning lids, finials, etc. If you go with the PM 3520B, think thru all the other upgrades you might need going from a 1" spindle to a 1.25" spinde.

4 Nova chucks = 4 new inserts,
- tool rests for 3/4" post = 2 new Robust posts for 1" post,
- vacuum chuck adapter for 1"to 1.25",
- longer brass rod thru headstock for vacuum pump.
- Upgrade hollowing jig from 16" to 20"...luckily I had the Monster setup so the upgrade was easy-peasy.
- My bowl steady was custom fit to my old lathe ways so it was either build another one or buy one. I'm in for $3000 already so I broke the bank and bought one painted to match the MM.

Okay it ended up being more than a couple hundred bucks.....but I have no regrets and the wife got to go to Hawaii (with me).