What stone to buy next?

[Noah Barfield]

Hi all,

I picked up my first set of water stones last weekend from an ad on craigslist. For $40, I got 2 King stones (800 grit, 1200 grit) brand new in plastic wrappers and a brand new 4000 grit Naniwa No. A3-1.

Do I need a 6000, 8000, or 10000 grit stone? Or will the 3 I have be sufficient for sharpening chisels and plane irons?

Thanks,

Noah

[Russell Sansom]

Depends on how sharp you want to go. I find a 6k or 8k essential for a finished edge, depending on the steel. Some people don't. 10k is getting into specialized territory. If I were you, I'd wait for that one until I got a little time in the saddle. You'll know when you need it.

[Harlan Barnhart]

Hi Noah,
You already have more than many old timers who used two stones at the most, coarse and fine. An 8,000 is nice but not absolutely essential. I would get a leather strop and a green "crayon" of buffing compound to finish off after the 4,000. Actually the leather is not essential either, a scrap of MDF works just as well. It just needs occasional replacement.
Peace,
Harlan Barnhart

[Terry Beadle]

I agree with Mr. Sansom, an 8000 is a definite addition. The 4000 you have will do but it won't give you a great smoother result. Still like all "trueisms" in wood working, there's several ways to skin a cat. Using the green rouge will do and give good results. Better would be a 10,000 ice bear on a micro bevel after the 4000 did it's thing. Jumping from 4000 to 6K, 8K or 10K is no problem when you use micro bevels.

For your jack plane blades and even the jointer the 4000 will do. You will get pretty good results from the 4000 with a hone on the green strop on your smoother but the higher grits will get you into the excellent results area on your smoother blades. The 4000 will also get you good results on your card scrapers.

Chisels need a high polish like your smoothers to deal with hand tuned SYP and the like. A chisel treated to just 4000 grit will do great for mortice work and some paring jobs but to pare with a chisel in difficult woods requires a higher grit treatment IMO.

The ceramic extremely fine stone recommended by some here on the Creek ( I don't own one. ) is also a good option and requires no soaking.

Enjoy the shavings !

[Russell Sansom]

and even the jointer the 4000 will do

I use the #8 more than most people so I keep it like a razor; 8k or higher there. But we all seem have different perspectives on sharpening.

[Tony Shea]

I personally would never be without a 8000 grit or higher stone. Some reccomend the green rouge will do instead but is much more finiky than just using a polighing/finishing stone of some sort. Often times after the 8000 I will strop with green honing compound and also will touch up the blade on the green stuff during use. But I couldn't imagine being without my 8000 and have been looking into a higher grit as of late. I really don't think you'd regret dropping the $ on a finishing stone and there are some really nice ones out there right now.

[Jon van der Linden]

The next step in the King stones would be a 6k stone. Having used all the stones you have, I'd agree with everyone who says the 4k is not fine enough. If you stick with King, I'd get their 6k, otherwise I'd move to an 8k. Having a finer stone than that for final touches is even better, but you're looking at many times the cost of your initial investment.

[Jim Koepke]

Another vote for an 8000 stone. Most of the time with just a little bit of honing on the 8000 my blades can go back to work if they are just a little dull from use. Most of my sharpening is done free hand so micro bevels are not used.

jtk

[Johnny Kleso]

Grit -- Microns
2000 = 7.5
4000 = 3
6000 = 2
8000 = 1.2
10000 = ??

My chart on the my website did not go past 8,000 Japan Grit so I tried to find how many microns it is..
I found this chart http://straightrazorplace.com/forums/attachments/honing/24914d1242610332-grit-mesh-micron-conversion-grit-comparison-5-17-09.pdf

Seems a 10,000 and 12,000 Sharpton is almost a 8,000 JIS (Japan Waterstone)


PS:
Anyone know how the author of the pdf is?
I want to ask if he would mind if I merged it into mine or link to it..


So you it might be best to check what brands of stones you have and against what you buy..

If you had a 5,000 I would say your good but you have a 4000 so you may want to got finer

I would also make a Leather Strop and buy some Polishing Rouge like Lee Valley Sells
http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=32984&cat=1,43072
Or diamond paste to charge the leather strop (block of wood with an old belt glued to it, dried in a press)

[Stuart Tierney]

Johnny,

The grit charts are/should be published informational documents, and not subject to copyright so as long as you find reputable sources for all the scales, and bash in your own chart you'll be fine.

I plan to make up a chart myself in the near future, as complete as I can make it, but a little easier to read. Thanks for the link on that one though, very useful and at least honest and accurate.


The current generation of Naniwa are new JIS, older versions may be using the old scale. Standard King use the old scale as a function of their age since development and the need to keep the things consistent over time. Part of the reason why there's #700, #800, #1000 and #1200 King deluxe stones.

Shapton are also using their own scale, based on the old JIS scale. Again, developed before the new scale was defined and a need to keep things consistent over time so as to not alienate the folks using their stones and wondering why the old doesn't work the same as the new. I reckon they could have adopted the new scale with the glass stones, but they didn't.

Also note that while each abrasive doohickey in there has a 'micron size', it's not as clear cut as that. There's a tolerance involved, and the stated grit rating is where most of the particles should be size wise. Shapton uses larger grit for the #**** number, but they also use a tighter tolerance at the same time.


To the OP, I'd be looking for another step beyond the #4000 stone you already have. What that will be is up for debate, and I won't suggest anything to you for fear of making it look like a sales pitch. ;)

Good luck, and before you go spending any money give those stones a try and see how they work for you. Might well be you don't like them an more of the same might be good money down the tubes.

Stu.

[David Weaver]

ah....just come out with it!

I would look for something in the 1 micron range, whatever the manufacturer.

Of all the stones that have been mentioned, one I would avoid is the king 6000. It cuts less fast than the 8000, the edge isn't nearly as fine and it costs almost as much.

You do not *need* any new stones, you could always finagle something with powered leather, mdf and honing compound or autosol paste, etc, but I think it's worth your time to find a fine stone.

Stu's got a lot of stones in that range that work with just a splash of water.

Presumably you are not going to be sharpening anything tougher than a hard chrome vanadium steel or an A2, at least not regularly?

I am partial to the shapton 12k/15k pro for most of my sharpening (it's a 1 micron stone), and I would take it if it were even a little harder (it has to be bought from overseas origin because the distribution the US marks the stones up WAY too much - it can be found for $85 shipped), but some people like a softer smoother stone, and it seems like most people who try stu's sigma stones like them a little better, especially in the upper grits where there's no soaking. I can't speak to that, I have no experience with them, but I do have experience with all of the kings, the shaptons, a bunch of different types of natural stones and some naniwas.

[Noah Barfield]

Thank you all for your suggestions. Stu, go ahead and pitch away! I'm not committed to any particular brand at this point and would be interested in trying other types of stones.

Noah