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Phil Thien
04-15-2011, 12:15 PM
I wanted one because last weekend I was working on a walnut medicine cabinet using some beautiful straight-grained walnut I had found the previous weekend at my hardwood supplier. I was assembling the face frame with pocket screws when CRACK. The 2nd to the last screw cracked the stile going in. BADLY.

I had enough wood left to make one more frame, so I used dowels to assemble it. I like dowels enough, but positioning the jig can be tedious (IMHO). I know others disagree, but having side to side play in the joint and then being able to align things during glue up, like a biscuit jointer or a Domino with an oversize (wide) cut takes a lot of the worry out of getting things perfect while cutting the joints.

ANYWAY, I've been thinking about making a mortising jig to use with my little DeWalt DW611 plunger. It has great dust collection. It plunges nicely. It seems like it would be perfect.

Many of the jig plans out there (Shop Notes, etc.) are for larger jigs. I wanted something smaller. Something I could "take to the wood" if desired. Something I could use at the bench (clamped) like a full-size jig, but also something that I could clamp to a large workpiece out of the driveway. I also decided that using multiple floating tenons (like using multiple biscuits or multiple dowels or multiple Dominos) was preferred to adjusting the size of the mortise to the size of the stock. So for a face frame, I'd use a 1" x 1.5" x .25" floating tenon. For attaching an apron to a leg, I might use two or four. I can mass-produce my own tenons and always have plenty on hand.

My I'm rambling. Apologies and intermission here if you need one.

My first attempt was a failure. My template was simply a slot in a piece of wood that a brass bushing would ride in. I discovered that the dust from the small mortise would accumulate in the sides of the template and prevent the bushing from moving to both extremes after a pass or two. That bushing really prevented adequate dust evacuation.

Looking at the bottom of the router, I decided the trick would be to remove two of the screws that hold the plastic sub-base, and use longer screws with plastic spacers to create guides that could ride in 3/8" wide slots. A picture is worth a thousand words, I encourage you to look at the pictures now.

This worked better than expected. With the bushing out of the picture, dust was properly evacuated. And the 3/8" spacers I found at my local hardware store fit in a 3/8" wide slot cut by a router bit PERFECTLY. Like it is on rails. I'm not kidding you.

The width of the mortise is controlled by the center (non-wasted) part of the slot. As the 3/8" spacers I've attached to the bottom of the router reach the end of the slot, they stop the router from moving any further.

My current incarnation uses a board clamped in the vise to hold this jig. But I can just as easily make a small fence that could be clamped to a larger workpiece. I plan to make a couple this weekend just so they're ready when needed.

The distance from the edge is controlled by two screws (the black ones) that you see on top of the jig. These are those furniture knock-down screws. They thread into cross-dowels in the fence. If you look at the pic from the bottom, you'll see some pencil lines I've used to make sure that the slot is parallel to the fence.

I was surprised when I assembled the first joint and saw just how nicely it fit together. I normally impress myself, but not THIS much. :)

This design should be adaptable to many different types of routers. Anything that has holes for mounting a sub-base.

Ready to make a mortise, and router lifted for clarity. I normally use two clamps (one on either side), but had removed one here...
191547 191543

The slots in the jig, and the spacers on the bottom of the router that ride in the slots...
191548 191546

The screws that control the spacing from the edge, and a shot from underneath
191550 191544

The three parts of a joint, ready to be assembled, and the completed joint (unglued)
191545 191549

I can think of several modifications, for example making the width of the mortise adjustable through screws that would adjust the length of the slots. But you'd probably have to make the jig wider, and I really like the idea of multiple smaller tenons.

Also, additional fences. Right now it is just clamped in the vise. I'll make something that clamps/bolts to the bench and is a little more flexible. I can even imagine a way that a piano hinge would allow me to accomodate angles.

My only real concern is whether the spacers might rotate during use and come lose. The spacers are slightly less than 3/8" (I'd say they are .371 or .372"). So they don't bind in the slot. And binding is the only thing I think might cause them to loosen. I'm going to keep an eye on it. I can also switch to a bar fence made to go between two screws. But I'm not going to go through the trouble if this works. And I've made about 40 practice mortises with no problem.

That is it for now. Thanks for reading all of this.

paul cottingham
04-15-2011, 8:06 PM
I can't resist....I am waiting for someone to come along and say your design doesn't work..... :-)

Sorry.

It looks pretty great actually.

Rich Engelhardt
04-16-2011, 5:36 AM
That settles it - Phil Thien is a god!!!
:D

Seriously, between the seperator, the tip on the Rockler dowel jig and now this - it adds up to a pretty tidy sum saved over buying stuff a lot more expensive to do pretty much the same thing.
This idea should transition real nice and easy over to my Dremel plunge base attachment.

Carl Beckett
04-16-2011, 7:21 AM
I like it Phil - the underlying feature is to get the guide separate from the cutting area. And the proof is in easy to setup/make, precise mortises.

This type of tip reminds me of those I read in the front of the woodworking magazine. I suggest you submit it!

:)

David Nelson1
04-16-2011, 7:51 AM
Phil,
I like the tip and your approach to the problem and solution. I think this is why its called wood WORKING. I'll have to admit to being a rookie in the is hobby and I don't understand the problem yet...... so I'm saving this thread till I do understand. Thanks for taking the time to post your solution. BTW if you do submit your idea for publication I have read a few blogs that suggest your idea becomes the property of the publisher! I have no idea how true that is, just thought I'd pass that along for what its worth.

Kent A Bathurst
04-16-2011, 8:38 AM
I plan to make a couple this weekend just so they're ready when needed.......I've made about 40 practice mortises with no problem.........

Very cool. Creative application of a little-understood principle in manufacturing process improvement - identify the detailed components of a task, and address them separately, rather than wrestling with the task as a whole.

I could see that there are some M+T joints that would come up fairly often. By using this design to get one "locked in" - including a test cut to verify - then some fasteners or dowels could be used for permanent assembly - including maybe an end-stop - remove the adjustable bolts, and that specific jig put on the shelf - which is maybe what you meant by "make a couple".

Only one question, though - 40 practice mortises - after, say, only a couple dozen, you still weren't convinced??? :D :D

Phil Thien
04-16-2011, 9:19 AM
Only one question, though - 40 practice mortises - after, say, only a couple dozen, you still weren't convinced??? :D :D

Not as convinced as I was after 40. :)

It is actually kind of fun to play with the jig and imagine the applications. So I was pulling a lot of cut-offs and mortising them.

Dan Hintz
04-16-2011, 9:28 AM
Anyone can just look at this design and see that it does nothing to hep separate the big chips from the fine dust, and it will allow my filter to get just as clogged as if it wasn't even there. Why don't you run a bunch of tests and convince me it works... I'm not going to trust the opinion of 500 other users who claim it works as advertised.

Mike OMelia
04-16-2011, 3:36 PM
Phil, would you please post the dimensions of the template? And the length of the slots and location distance from front edge? I have a job that will benefit from this design. Thanks so much for sharing!

Mike

Norman Hitt
04-16-2011, 6:39 PM
My only real concern is whether the spacers might rotate during use and come lose. The spacers are slightly less than 3/8" (I'd say they are .371 or .372"). So they don't bind in the slot. And binding is the only thing I think might cause them to loosen. I'm going to keep an eye on it. I can also switch to a bar fence made to go between two screws. But I'm not going to go through the trouble if this works. And I've made about 40 practice mortises with no problem.

That is it for now. Thanks for reading all of this.

Phil, If you use 4 thin star washers, ie; one on each end of each spacer, (one between the spacer and router base and the other between the spacer and the screw head) I think it would lock the spacers enough that they shouldn't loosen with use.
I like it, Nicely designed and Simple to build.

Phil Thien
04-16-2011, 6:54 PM
Phil, would you please post the dimensions of the template? And the length of the slots and location distance from front edge? I have a job that will benefit from this design. Thanks so much for sharing!

Mike

Working on it, Mike. I've been fine-tuning things to make them easier for make. For example, the slots for the adjustment screws were 3/4" (edge to center), while the slots for the spacers were 30/32" (edge to center). Now I've changed that so both sets of slots are 7/8" edge to center. This means I only need one fence position on the router table.

I hope to have some CAD done tomorrow.

Jeff Bartley
04-16-2011, 7:04 PM
Thanks for posting this Phil! That's a great design, nice and simple, adaptable to (almost) any router, really fits the bill.
I just went through the process of a bunch of larger mortises with a jig that relied on a bushing. I had a lot of trouble with the dust collection exactly as you've described. I ended up making a pass, vac'ing out the mortise, then another pass, etc, etc till I was at the full depth (1 7/16th").
Bravo!

Jamie Buxton
04-17-2011, 9:54 AM
It seems to me that one of the desirable features of a mortiser would be that the mortise slot is exactly parallel to the face of the workpiece. On this jig, parallel can be achieved by careful careful setup, but there is room for error. Why not just use a router-mounted edge guide?

Phil Thien
04-17-2011, 10:19 AM
It seems to me that one of the desirable features of a mortiser would be that the mortise slot is exactly parallel to the face of the workpiece. On this jig, parallel can be achieved by careful careful setup, but there is room for error. Why not just use a router-mounted edge guide?

No "careful careful" setup required. All you have to do is make sure the fence is parallel with either the front or back edges of the template. This takes almost no time. Once it is parallel, you tighten the screws, and all your mortises will be perfectly parallel with the edge of the workpiece. It takes ten seconds.

Now, in terms of why not to use an edge guide, the answers are many-fold (here are three):

(1) Small pieces. Try an edge guide working on the end grain of a 1-1/2" wide workpiece. You can't balance a router on a 1-1/2" wide by 3/4" thick workpiece, right?

(2) Accuracy. This jig takes all the worry out. All you have to do is move the router side to side while plunging. An edge guide requires that you push or pull that edge guide towards the edge of the workpiece and you move the router back and forth as you plunge. Any gap between the edge guide and the workpiece will ruin the workpiece.

BTW, In that sample joint (the FIRST joint I made with the jig, BTW) I pictured, the faces are perfectly flush. There is NO sanding to be done.

(3) Speed. Now that I'm playing with alignment pins, I can do a face frame (for example) super fast. Much faster than you'd be able to accomplish with an edge guide. Which you couldn't use for a face frame anyhow (see #1).

I gotta tell you, this thing ROCKS. I just have to settle on a good alignment pin. I'll post more pictures later today. Hopefully some CAD, too.

Joseph Tarantino
04-17-2011, 10:29 AM
That settles it - Phil Thien is a god!!!
:D

Seriously, between the seperator, the tip on the Rockler dowel jig and now this - it adds up to a pretty tidy sum saved over buying stuff a lot more expensive to do pretty much the same thing.
This idea should transition real nice and easy over to my Dremel plunge base attachment.

great innovative design. add to the above his help to me on a band saw problem. pointing me iturra design resolved an issue that neither jet nor two of their authorized dealers could resolve. constructive creativity is always impressive.

Mike OMelia
04-17-2011, 8:55 PM
By "CAD" one can hope u mean sketchup!

Mike

keith micinski
04-17-2011, 10:06 PM
I think this is a great design but I agree about having to make sure the fence is perfectly parallel and also not having to measure anything. 99% of the work I do with mortice and tenon would be a 3/4 skirt into a 1 1/2 inch leg or 3/4 to 3/4 face frames. Two stops for these dimensions would make it even quicker to setup. You could make the fence an upside down L shape with flip up stops so that when you slid the top over it would hit the stops on each side and you would know you were parallel and setup to do mortices on 3/4 stock. I have been looking for a reason to get a plunge router for years now and I think you have just managed to justify it. Thank you.

keith micinski
04-17-2011, 10:56 PM
Of course the plunge router kit I had been eyeballing on Craigslist is finally gone after a month of calling my name.

Phil Thien
04-17-2011, 11:05 PM
I think this is a great design but I agree about having to make sure the fence is perfectly parallel and also not having to measure anything. 99% of the work I do with mortice and tenon would be a 3/4 skirt into a 1 1/2 inch leg or 3/4 to 3/4 face frames. Two stops for these dimensions would make it even quicker to setup. You could make the fence an upside down L shape with flip up stops so that when you slid the top over it would hit the stops on each side and you would know you were parallel and setup to do mortices on 3/4 stock. I have been looking for a reason to get a plunge router for years now and I think you have just managed to justify it. Thank you.

Staying parallel is a non-issue. As long as the front-edge of the template is parallel to the fence, your mortise will be perfectly parallel to the edge of your workpiece. You could do stops if you like, I find that pencil marks for common stock thicknesses is all that is necessary. You can also set a combination square and use that for setting the distance of the fence from the front edge of the template. Lots of ways to skin this cat, but I have had zero issues with parallelism.

Phil Thien
04-17-2011, 11:07 PM
By "CAD" one can hope u mean sketchup!

Mike

I could. I was going to use AutoCAD. I hope to have that done tomorrow. This evening I basically started creating a page for the jig: http://www.cgallery.com/jpthien/mj.htm.

That is where I will post the CAD, too.

Mike OMelia
04-18-2011, 12:59 AM
I was just hoping for sketchup since any of us has access to that.

Norman Hitt
04-18-2011, 7:45 AM
Staying parallel is a non-issue. As long as the front-edge of the template is parallel to the fence, your mortise will be perfectly parallel to the edge of your workpiece. You could do stops if you like, I find that pencil marks for common stock thicknesses is all that is necessary. You can also set a combination square and use that for setting the distance of the fence from the front edge of the template. Lots of ways to skin this cat, but I have had zero issues with parallelism.

For really fast and repeatable setup, you could make some setup blocks by accurately setting up and mortising short pieces of different thicknesses of material and then insert and or glue in a loose tenon in them, then just insert the tenon into the jig and slide the fence against the morticed piece and lock it down. You could even make some for offset mortises if you wished.

Phil Thien
04-18-2011, 11:43 AM
I was just hoping for sketchup since any of us has access to that.

I posted a SketchUp file at the page I've created for the mortising jig:

http://www.cgallery.com/jpthien/mj.htm

Notes:

(1) You only cut the four slots for the template. The fifth slot, where the mortise is actually cut, is cut by the DW611 itself. I suggest having a piece of scrap clamped to the fence to prevent blow-out on the bottom.

(2) I'm not sure I left enough of a recess for the adjustment screws and washers. I think the drawing has it at .125". I will check the actual measurement tonight.

Again, this is all a work in progress.

Mike Goetzke
04-18-2011, 1:53 PM
Anyone can just look at this design and see that it does nothing to hep separate the big chips from the fine dust, and it will allow my filter to get just as clogged as if it wasn't even there. Why don't you run a bunch of tests and convince me it works... I'm not going to trust the opinion of 500 other users who claim it works as advertised.

:confused: Are you referring to the 611 jig :confused:

If your are talking about Phil's baffle - looks a deceiving (to say the least). ;)


Thanks Phil for sharing both designs. I just picked up the 611 kit and am interested in your latest idea.

Mike

Mike OMelia
04-18-2011, 4:41 PM
Mike, I think Dan was using sarcasm. :)

Phil, thanks for the sketchup file!

Mike

Ben Hatcher
04-18-2011, 5:10 PM
Phil,
I think that your solution is quite clever. You could make this adjustable to any dado length by swapping the pins for a bar and the slots for a dado. Slot the bottom of the dado and use more of the bar stock to make stop blocks that are secured from below the jig.

Phil Thien
04-18-2011, 5:35 PM
Phil,
I think that your solution is quite clever. You could make this adjustable to any dado length by swapping the pins for a bar and the slots for a dado. Slot the bottom of the dado and use more of the bar stock to make stop blocks that are secured from below the jig.

Yep. Another method would be to use a series of perpendicular (to the slots) holes that would accept pins which would set limits. Lots of ways to skin that cat.

Not sure I'll ever need a tenon narrower than 1" though.

mreza Salav
04-18-2011, 7:31 PM
There are many simple jigs for doing mortises using routers and yours is among the better ones I think. Easy and inexpensive to make too.

I have built a simple one and have been getting excellent results with in different projects:

191967191968191969191970


Someone asked how to get the location of mortises (start/end) exact: although it is possible to get them exactly to me having the start and end of the mortise in the exact location is a none issue as having the loose tenon just slightly smaller (from sides, not the thickness) than the mortise doesn't weaken the joint at all.
To do the mortise at the end (end-grain section) of a narrow piece I usually clamp it with a longer (scrap) piece of the same thickness in the vise to have a larger base to have the router glide one.