Hybrid Saw

[Lynn Reid]

Hi All
I have been looking for the best hybrid saw I could buy in the $1000-1200 dollar range. I have done a lot of homework...but a lot of the articles I read where dated several years ago and some of the machines are no longer in production. I am sure you get this question a lot...I am trying.
I want a riving knife, good fence, granite top (if possible) and a lift to move it around with...although that could be bought separate. I would appreciate any information...even if its only the name and model number...Ill do the rest. Thank you very much!!
Lynn

[Dave MacArthur]

Lynn,
This topic comes up quite often, and the answer is always the same:
1. Get a cabinet saw if possible, it's the same size footprint and usually a much better saw. Honestly, if you have only $800 you get a hybrid saw. If you can swing $1000-$1200, you get a cabinet saw. I can't think of any downsides whatever except the price difference... get a cabinet saw.

2. For $1200 you can get a great used saw: PM66, Unisaw. However, it takes knowledge to make the used-tool analysis, so you may be better served by getting one new. In this case, you don't really take a stop "down", since these saw below all have some better things--riving knives.

I've read 50 of these threads, shop CraigsList every night for used deals, used to have a 1.5 HP Delta Contractor saw (like a hybrid) and currently have a PM66 and SawStop. So think I have an informed opinion when I say that if you have $1200, these are the 3 saws I would purchase (new). Grizzly makes a good saw, these have all you want. I'd get the 1023 or the 690 if at all possible.

NEW! G0715P 10" Hybrid Table Saw with Riving Knife, Polar Bear Series (http://www.grizzly.com/products/10-Hybrid-Table-Saw-with-Riving-Knife-Polar-Bear-Series/G0715P)
$765.00

G1023RL 10" 3 HP 220V Cabinet Left-Tilting Table Saw (http://www.grizzly.com/products/10-3-HP-220V-Cabinet-Left-Tilting-Table-Saw/G1023RL)
$1,125.00

G0690 10" 3HP 220V Cabinet Table Saw with Riving Knife (http://www.grizzly.com/products/10-3HP-220V-Cabinet-Table-Saw-with-Riving-Knife/G0690)
$1,295.00

Use the SEARCH function of the forum and search for 1023RL and you'll get a ton of threads about the saw, pretty much all positive and happy customers.

[scott spencer]

The granite top will narrow the field down to a Steel City 35925 or 35990G, Craftsman 22116 (by Steel City/Orion), or the General International 50-240GT (which I suspect has some association with Steel City/Orion also). All feature large yoke style cabinet mounted trunnions that are easy to reach. Not sure how good the fence on the 35990G is.

[Lynn Reid]

Thanks for the suggestions! I have a Delta contractors saw ( for the past 20 years)...I have never liked the right tilt and although the blade is within .005 parallel...the saw still makes heel marks on most rips. There is a dip across the cast iron top...not a great dip...but I dont know what else could be the problem. Well...there is a .004 runout at the top of the blade... .001 arbor runout...which I thought was in spec. The machine apparently cuts differently under a load. I rebuilt the saw last year...new bearings and such...but the problem persists. Theres no real vibration...the saw passes the nickel test. I was thinking granite because of flatness...but I do use magnets sometimes on the table. I just wanted some suggestions from people with saw experience to guide me...and I do thank you for that!
Lynn

[Prashun Patel]

Personally I'd make granite top a secondary concern. It will eliminate many good saws with perfectly great CI tops.

Having progressed from contractor to hybrid to cabinet saw, let me ask first what is yr main reason for wanting a hybrid? Is wiring to 220 out of the question for you?

Getting 220 will increase your options for other machines you might buy over time, and is a great investment IMHO.

The hybrid saws are generally limited to 2hp or less. I made the wrong (for me) assumption that I'd be working mainly with 2" or thinner stock and wouldn't need the power of a cabinet saw. If you get a cabinet saw, you likely will not need to think about upgrading ever again.

If that's prohibitive, then I will say that I had a Jet Proshop that was great and quite accurate.

[Lynn Reid]

Thanks for the reply...220 isn't out of the question...neither is a cabinet saw...as long as I can make it mobile due to space limitations. I retired early and want to do some fine woodworking...mostly boxes, small cabinets and such. My contractors saw just wont get it done. I could go higher than $1200...but not 3K for a new Unisaw. There are so many saws on the market...I just want to make sure I get a good one. I wont be doing anything heavy duty with the saw.

[Brian Tymchak]

..I wont be doing anything heavy duty with the saw.



I said the very same thing to myself when I decided to buy a Ridgid 1.5 HP contractor style TS. Set it up, did a few small projects with 4/4, everything OK. First big project (workbench) -- I found it would have been advantageous to rip some 12/4 that was available and less expensive than the 8/4 I wanted and was not available. Was pretty sure I couldn't do it with that saw so I waited for the more expensive 8/4 to come in.

One of these days, the big saw is coming home... :)

[Myk Rian]

Why granite? Granite stains, and stays stained. Granite chips, and stays chipped.
I have a SC Hybrid with CI top. I love it.

[Prashun Patel]

If mobility is yr main issue, then a hybrid is not more compact than a cab saw. They can each be made mobile with the right mobile base.

[Cary Falk]

as long as I can make it mobile due to space limitations..
A cabinet saw can be mobile very easily.
http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q297/caryincamas/DSC_0306-1.jpg
A Grizzly 1023RL or 690 can be had for around $1300 and will serve you well.
http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q297/caryincamas/DSC_0210.jpg

I know what you mean about space limitations:D

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q297/caryincamas/DSC_0282.jpg

[Maik Tobin]

I also had a Delta contractor saw and used it fir about 15 years. For the most part, it did what I needed, but I just wanted to go to a saw with more power. Going to a hybrid will gain you very little in terms of anything other than dust collection. Most contractor saws are 1.5 HP and most hybrids will come in at 1.5-1.75...no real improvement. I settled on a Griz GO690 with a slider and I love it. Cuts anything I throw at it like butter with little or no vibration and I also bought the mobile base, so I can move it around easily. I would strongly urge you to consider a 3HP cabinet saw. You will not be dissapointed, but I bet you will be dissapointed with a hybrid.

[Prashun Patel]

So, back to your original question:

In the $1000-$1500 range, the Grizzly 1023R and 0690 series get pretty good reviews.
The thing I loved about the 0690 is that there are sliding table and router extension wing upgrades available.
Like you, I'm space constrained and these options were tempting.

[scott spencer]

Thanks for the reply...220 isn't out of the question...neither is a cabinet saw...as long as I can make it mobile due to space limitations. I retired early and want to do some fine woodworking...mostly boxes, small cabinets and such. My contractors saw just wont get it done. I could go higher than $1200...but not 3K for a new Unisaw. There are so many saws on the market...I just want to make sure I get a good one. I wont be doing anything heavy duty with the saw.

A 3hp cabinet saw has a lot of advantages over a hybrid...the only thing a hybrid will do that a 3hp cabinet saw won't is run on a standard 120v circuit. Something like the Grizzly G1023RL or G0690 are a lot of saw for the money...both cast iron though.

Here's a look at the guts of the G1023RL:
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y203/hewood/sawparts/g1023rl_det1.jpg


Here's a look at the guts of the former G0478 hybrid, and is a fairly typical setup:
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y203/hewood/sawparts/g0478_trunnions.jpg

[Russell Sansom]

Used Generals, Grizzleys, Unisaws, and PM66's show up on CL often here in the bay area. If you're going to make boxes and base your retirement woodworking on a power saw ( until you discover working by hand, then you can throw the saw out !!! ), do yourself a huge favor and try to find a decent cabinet saw. The stability and solid rip fence are more than luxuries. Once you operate smooth tilt and depth adjusting wheels, you'll wonder how you ever put up with a cruder one. Though I don't know much about them, from what I hear, a riving knife could save you a trip to the emergency ward. "Micro Jig" makes an add-on splitter that will perform a similar function, but maybe a less expensive new cabinet saw with a riving knife would be the ticket.

[Curt Harms]

Thanks for the reply...220 isn't out of the question...neither is a cabinet saw...as long as I can make it mobile due to space limitations. I retired early and want to do some fine woodworking...mostly boxes, small cabinets and such. My contractors saw just wont get it done. I could go higher than $1200...but not 3K for a new Unisaw. There are so many saws on the market...I just want to make sure I get a good one. I wont be doing anything heavy duty with the saw.

Mobile is easy-I made my own mobile base and it works well. As far as space, a cabinet saw doesn't take any more space than a contractor's saw. What takes space is if you want a 52" table/fence setup. Here is a relevant thread though the title is router tables. http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?74670-Do-I-need-legs-for-my-TS-router-table&highlight=mobile%20base

[Myk Rian]

Here's a look at the guts of the former G0478 hybrid, and is a fairly typical setup:
Not typical for a SC Hybrid. Mine has cabinet mounted trunions.

[Lynn Reid]

I think Im getting sold on the cabinet saw. I found a unisaw on craigslist for less than $1000.00. Its a 1946 model...or so it was advertised. The thing that surprised me was that it had the tube type fence...same as came with my contractors saw. I loathed that fence...bought a Delta T2...not crazy about it either. As I mentioned getting heel marks...I always felt that the wood wasnt moving straight and moved in some way to cause the heel marks (which are mostly at the bottom). I have used featherboards in front of the blade...and behind it...it helps. Does grizzly have stores around the country? I am in a small town and live where trucks cant come...I dont know if I can find a place that will let me have Grizzly drop it on their dock. Then there is the issue of getting it home! I really appreciate your help!

[Dave MacArthur]

Honestly, although I usually recommend buying used on CL and have scored some awesome deals... at this point I do think it's better to purchase a new Grizzly (or other if you have higher budget) with the riving knife as well as the improved dust collection. I hate to say it, as a PM66 owner, but those two health/safety improvements make the used market much less desirable.
Go for the Grizzly.

[scott spencer]

I think Im getting sold on the cabinet saw. ... Does grizzly have stores around the country? I am in a small town and live where trucks cant come...I dont know if I can find a place that will let me have Grizzly drop it on their dock. Then there is the issue of getting it home! I really appreciate your help!

Grizzly has 3 showrooms (http://grizzly.com/showrooms.aspx):
Muncy, PA
Springfield, MO
Bellingham, WA

[Myk Rian]

I have used featherboards in front of the blade...and behind it...it helps.
Explain how you use a featherboard behind the blade.

[Joseph Tarantino]

I think Im getting sold on the cabinet saw. I found a unisaw on craigslist for less than $1000.00. Its a 1946 model...or so it was advertised. The thing that surprised me was that it had the tube type fence...same as came with my contractors saw. I loathed that fence...bought a Delta T2...not crazy about it either. As I mentioned getting heel marks...I always felt that the wood wasnt moving straight and moved in some way to cause the heel marks (which are mostly at the bottom). I have used featherboards in front of the blade...and behind it...it helps. Does grizzly have stores around the country? I am in a small town and live where trucks cant come...I dont know if I can find a place that will let me have Grizzly drop it on their dock. Then there is the issue of getting it home! I really appreciate your help!

if you are getting heel marks with your t-2, it's not adjusted properly. i have one on an emerson built 10" c-man that delivers dead on rips with no heal marks (unless i get careless as the workpiece passes the blade)
http://thumb18.webshots.net/t/83/183/9/26/84/2389926840104952478TZrXYl_th.jpg (http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/2389926840104952478TZrXYl) http://thumb18.webshots.net/t/72/72/6/63/22/2617663220104952478bAZAki_th.jpg (http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/2617663220104952478bAZAki) http://thumb18.webshots.net/t/72/72/7/65/68/2946765680104952478SPIYAY_th.jpg (http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/2946765680104952478SPIYAY) http://thumb18.webshots.net/t/72/72/6/45/57/2980645570104952478KToGzp_th.jpg (http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/2980645570104952478KToGzp)

the first 2 pics are on the infeed side and the last 2 are on the outfeed side. note the difference in the readings.

it sounds like you've inspected your saw thoroughly, and if you're committed to a move up, in your price range, the griz, 0691 gets great reviews, as does the customer and tech support of the company. they enjoy a very good reputation and based on comments i've seen on this and other boards, their products deliver good value. if i were to move from my emerson built c-man and ridgid contractor saws, grizzly would be my first stop.

BTW, that 1946 unisaw you mentioned likely is a right tilt, of which i've never been a fan. safety is better served with a left tilt, where the workpiece can't get trapped by the blade during a rip cut.

[Cary Falk]

I agree that something must be wrong with your T2. I had one on a contractor saw and it was great. With riving kinves and better dust collection, I don't think it is worth it to buy used. I sold my Uniasw for those reasons and bought a G1023RL. I don't regret that decision. Buy from Grizzly and pick it up at the freight terminal if you don't think a delivery truck can make it to you.

[Lynn Reid]

Hi and thanks for the input...Im down to deciding between the Grizzly 1023RL and the G0690. I dont want the added router table extension as I have four tables now! Ill buy the mobile base for whichever I decide...Im leaning to the 1023RL. I am at least 500 miles from any of Grizzly's warehouses. I think I can have it dropped off in a town 30 miles away...and do the pickup truck from there. About putting featherboards behind the blade...I leave enough to trim to size...less than a blade's width...and put the featherboard behind the blade to hold it snug to the fence. The fence, by the way, is dead on accurate front and back...I use Ed Bennets TSAligner Jr. However...there is a .005 bulge in the fence just at the back of the blade. The blade itself is within .005 parallel to the miter slot. The specs on the T2 said it was accurate within 1/64"...that sounds like a lot to me. One thing I am looking forward to losing is the right tilt of the contractors saw...I never could figure just why they did that...must be a production money saving thing. Its been a 20 year annoyance to me!

[Cary Falk]

There are many threads about the G1023 vs the G0690. The G1023RL is a great saw. I hear the G0690 is ok too.:D If you have any questions about the G1023RL feel free to ask here or in a PM.

[Kent E. Matthew]

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c56/Goose5/misc/mancave2.jpg

This is my hybrid Delta. It has done everything I have ever asked it to do. CL buy for 500.

[Lynn Reid]

Hi...the good saws I found on CL were mostly 3 phase...one was 16-18" blade (scary)...a few were 7-9000K production type saws. I'm going with the 1023RL...I only hope they have it for immediate shipment. Ill have to find a loading dock but I dont think that will be a big obstacle...also my two sons and son-in-law and maybe more...500+ pounds! I may have to shore up my shop floor too! Sincerely...I want to thank all of you for your input and persuading me to go with a cabinet saw. I got hybrid in my mind when I read so much good stuff about the Ridgid 4511...I am sold on a cabinet saw now. I hope someone on CL takes a shine to my contractors saw! Thanks again!!

[Lynn Reid]

Thanks for your helps guys (and possible gals!) My 1023RL is on scheduled to get here Friday. I sold my contractors saw today...so I am READY to make some sawdust!!

[Paul McGaha]

Congratulations Lynn.

Just my $.02 but I think cabinet saw is the way to go. Good power, mass, dust collection, Big table.

PHM

[Paul Wunder]

Lynn,

Have you explored having Grizzly deliver to the freight company's terminal and then you could pick it up from there? Depending on where the terminal is it might be easier (and less risk of damage) than a secondary drop off. You would also have access to a freight dock and some loading help. Perhaps the freight company and you could cut a separate deal for local delivery on a LTL basis.

Paul

[Don Morris]

The 1023 is a solid choice. I went that way years ago, just 1023SL. I would think the 1023 must in some respects be somewhat of a clone of the Delta Unisaw (certainly held as a gold standard design for years) as I was able to put a Delta Unisaw Biesemyer splitter on mine without any modifications. I had a Delta contractor saw before that. No need to upgrade ever again.

[Jason Dreyer]

Cary - your G1023 setup is exactly what I am looking for. I'm getting ready to buy a G1023 but I'm a little put-off by the 26" rip capacity. Where did you get that extended table? The only extended table I see on Grizz's site is twice that length, and that's just a little too much for me. Did you make it yourself? Where did you get the longer fence rails?

[Don Jeansonne]

I bought a G1023RL just a couple of months ago and am extremely satisfied. It was an upgrade from a Craftsman hybrid which was an upgrade from a Delta contractor saw. I made the jump to the hybrid to save money and regretted spending almost the same money. You won't be disappointed in the 1023rl.

I did swap the ShopFox fence for a Biesemeyer which I had before and just love it. The Beisemeyer gives me a 30.5 inch capacity as oppposed to the 26" on ShopFox. That 4+" makes a difference to me.

[Cary Falk]

Cary - your G1023 setup is exactly what I am looking for. I'm getting ready to buy a G1023 but I'm a little put-off by the 26" rip capacity. Where did you get that extended table? The only extended table I see on Grizz's site is twice that length, and that's just a little too much for me. Did you make it yourself? Where did you get the longer fence rails?
Jason,
I shifted the standard 26" rip tube over to the right. I now have about 34-36" rip. The table I made myself. It is MDF covered in formica.
Cary

[Gene Tereba]

I have the new grizzly polar bear hybrid, runs on 220. love it but in retrospect would have/should have picked up 3 HP cabinet.....still happy but............

[scott spencer]

Jason,
I shifted the standard 26" rip tube over to the right. I now have about 34-36" rip. The table I made myself. It is MDF covered in formica.
Cary

Jason - I did the same to my Shop Fox W1677 and to my Cman 22124...gained 10" both times by sliding to the right the distance of one bolt hole. It's very simple to do and didn't require any drilling that way.

[Jason Dreyer]

Hey that's a great idea. I think I might have to do that myself, since the 26" capacity was the ONLY thing I did not like about this saw. Doesn't it throw off the measurement strip, though? Or is that something that gets applied to the tube after assembly?

[Rick Bunt]

Cary or Scott,

Could either of you say a bit more about moving over the rails? I've read a few threads about moving the rails on other saws (like G0690), but it looks like it might be a bit different on this saw / fence. From the Shop Fox Classic manual it looks like the cutouts in the angle bracket for the miter slots would need to be added. Did you cut out your own?

Any suggestions or observations would be most appreciated. Like Jason, I liked everything about G1023RL except 26" rip, but I ordered it yesterday anyway! I am planning to move the rails once I get a closer look. (Appologies for the stealth pre-gloat. I promise to follow up with pictures and comments once it
arrives.)

Jason - you can buy after-market stick on measuring strips from Woodcraft, Rocker, etc. since you'd want it to go past 26" too.

[Jason Dreyer]

I liked everything about G1023RL except 26" rip, but I ordered it yesterday anyway!

I'm jealous. I've still got at least a couple of months to wait, probably more like 3.


Jason - you can buy after-market stick on measuring strips from Woodcraft, Rocker, etc. since you'd want it to go past 26" too.

Yeah, I guess I shoulda figured there would be something like that available out there. Guess I didn't think that one through. :-)

[scott spencer]

Jason - Install the front angle bracket per the instructions with the miter slot cut outs lined up. Same with the back rail. Then instead of mounting the front rail guide per the instructions, slide it to the right by one bolt hole...you'll end up mounting it with 4 bolts instead of 5...still very secure. Then mount the measuring tape. It's as easy as that. You can fill the gap between the front and back rails with an optional extension table or router table if you want to.

This pic might help illustrate:
http://stusshed.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/t-fencea1.jpg

[Cary Falk]

Rick,
The method Scott describes is the easiest. Since I was adding the JessEm slider, I went ahead and drill new holes in the angle iron and cut new slots for the miter slots. A metal blade in a jig saw made quick work of the slots. I drilled the holes using a drill press. It was a little time consuming but not bad.

[Rick Bunt]

Many thanks Scott and Cary! Very helpful information. -Rick