No more $500 shop vac

[michael case]

One of our members recently posted Festool Problems (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?164107-Festool-Problems)

I have a Festool vacuum, CT22. It is a few years old, but I don't think it has a lot of use. The problem; it will run for about 3 minutes and then shut down, after a few minutes it will run again for another 3 minutes. I removed filters and bag thinking maybe a clog was over heating it, no...



I have to admit it really ticks me off to hear of a fellow Creeker spending $500.00 for a shop vac! Then the $500.00 shop vac stops working after a couple years of moderate use. And whats Festool's answer? Buy a new motor from us for another $130.00!

Well, Before any more of our members run out and buy $500 dollar shop vacs I would like to point something out. For less than the price of the Festool replacement motor that apparently you need to buy every three years or so, you can buy a Rigid Model # WD1250 12 gallon and plug it into an i-socket tool and vacuum switch. The Festool ct22 is rated at 137 cfm. The Rigid is rated at a higher 168 cfm. I have My old $49 Rigid 9 gallon plugged into an i-socket. Its still going strong four years out. Total out of pocket - $86.00

[johnny means]

Yeah, lets all boycott Festool because of one unsubstantiated complaint!:rolleyes:

[Don Morris]

A year ago I was in need of replacing a many years old Sears wetvac. I've written about this a few months ago. I ended up with the Rigid 14gal version, as at that level they add several upgrades to their machine including a quieter motor and much improved and easy to remove locking mechanism for their top. It absolutely works like a charm. I also attached a Dust Deputy to it and it still rolls around with ease. I admire the Festool system, but I think this has got it beat bang for buck.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Well Johnny...if Richard Wolf said it's so...............it's substantiated. His integrity is never in question.

But.... I fail to see why it matters if I want to spend $500 for a shop vac or $86 for a shop vac........ there is no morale high ground here......

A single failure of a tool by any manufacturer is hardly an indication of any significant trend or worry.

[Chris Rosenberger]

One of our members recently posted Festool Problems (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?164107-Festool-Problems)

I have a Festool vacuum, CT22. It is a few years old, but I don't think it has a lot of use. The problem; it will run for about 3 minutes and then shut down, after a few minutes it will run again for another 3 minutes. I removed filters and bag thinking maybe a clog was over heating it, no...



I have to admit it really ticks me off to hear of a fellow Creeker spending $500.00 for a shop vac! Then the $500.00 shop vac stops working after a couple years of moderate use. And whats Festool's answer? Buy a new motor from us for another $130.00!

Well, Before any more of our members run out and buy $500 dollar shop vacs I would like to point something out. For less than the price of the Festool replacement motor that apparently you need to buy every three years or so, you can buy a Rigid Model # WD1250 12 gallon and plug it into an i-socket tool and vacuum switch. The Festool ct22 is rated at 137 cfm. The Rigid is rated at a higher 168 cfm. I have My old $49 Rigid 9 gallon plugged into an i-socket. Its still going strong four years out. Total out of pocket - $86.00

The Festool vac that was in the other thread was over 3 years old because Festool has a 3 year warranty on there tools. When any product that is out of warranty & something fails, the owner has to pay for the parts if they want it fixed, no matter if it is the highest priced or the lowest priced. It also sounds like the current owner of the vac was not the original owner because he stated he did not think it had been used much. If he is not the original owner, then he has no idea how the vac was used before he got it. The problem could have been caused be miss use by the original owner.
The current owner also does not state how long he has owned the vac. Could it be that he recently bought it used thinking he got a great deal & when it turns out he did not, people want to jump on & bash a band name. Every company has failures in their products no matter if they are the highest priced or the lowest price. I know this because every company sells replacement parts.

[Bryan Cowing]

maybe the part that shuts it off from too much heat is defective. I wonder how hot it gets?

[John Coloccia]

Quick, everyone send me your unreliable and potentially dangerous Festool equipment before it's too late.

[mickey cassiba]

I've got an old PC with the tool triggered switch on board. served me well for about ten years now. It was a little pricey though, the DW sander and it cost about $800 together. I've used the fool out of both of 'm though, both still going strong.

[michael case]

How you doing John? Your humor is good as always!

The only potential danger from Festool is to your wallet. However, you can't have my domino because it still works. This is the second one. The first was a quality control disaster. Its probably been cannibalized for parts. Maybe the motor ended up in a shop vac? But don't weep yet, there's a slightly used Festool shop vac out there that needs some TLC. You might pick up cheap. Keep me laughing!

[Richard Wolf]

Just a few points to clear things up. I am the original of the vac, it was my opinion that I have not used it very often. Not for long durations or heavy use. I was just looking to see if it was a problem that others have experienced. I always try to purchase good equipment, because spending time repairing tools in a pro shop can become very time consuming, equals money.
At this point I haven't decided what to do, but it seems likely I will replace the motor.

[Dave Gaul]

Quick, everyone send me your unreliable and potentially dangerous Festool equipment before it's too late.

Thanks for that John, first smile of the day!!

IF you get overloaded, PM me and I'll give you my shipping address!

[Steve Griffin]

Every company has failures in their products no matter if they are the highest priced or the lowest price. I know this because every company sells replacement parts.

HAh, isn't that the truth.:D

I'm very happy with my Fein hooked up to a sander, and absolutely love my Ridgid toolbox style vac for jobsites.

If I need a replacement for either, I'll look very closely at Festool.

While I disregard a single bad experience, on this thread we have 3--The thread starters, R. Wolfs and M. Case whose first one was a "quality control disaster".

Since the Festool is a "very expensive tool" those who say anything bad can expect a hard time from those who are loyal owners. But I appreciate when they stand up to this predictable flack and post experiences.

-Steve

[Andrew Pitonyak]

When I purchased my Festool vac, I thought that I would decommission my large Craftsman. I chose not to because it moves so much air compared to the festool. I connected my craftsman to small cyclone and I use that for the bundles of shavings that end up all over, I connect it to my home made router table fence... things like that. I like that the festool is very quit while I am sanding, using my Kreg jigs, and other hand tools; and, it has variable suction, which I need for some of these applications. I connected my HUGE vac to a sander once, um, well, boy, that sander really cling to the board.

[Brice Burrell]

When I purchased my Festool vac, I thought that I would decommission my large Craftsman. I chose not to because it moves so much air compared to the festool. I connected my craftsman to small cyclone and I use that for the bundles of shavings that end up all over, I connect it to my home made router table fence... things like that. I like that the festool is very quit while I am sanding, using my Kreg jigs, and other hand tools; and, it has variable suction, which I need for some of these applications. I connected my HUGE vac to a sander once, um, well, boy, that sander really cling to the board.

Andrew, your Festool vac likely has pretty much the same cfm as your Craftsman, the difference is the size hose. The Festool vac comes with a 1 1/4" hose and your Craftsman a 2 1/2" hose so of course it's going to move more air.

[Greg Portland]

Static pressure is the critical rating for shop vacs if you're connecting them to hand held tools, not CFM (like a large DC). Also, dropping a HEPA filter into a vacuum doesn't ensure that the entire system is HEPA rated.

The Rigid has lower static pressure ratings but higher CFM #s than Fein or Festool. This means that it is better suited for general shop cleanup & connecting to large tools (contractor saw, etc.) while the Fein and Festool are optimal for use with hand held equipment. I've noticed blow-through of dust on the Rigid (i.e. dust in the air after vacuuming) while the Fein and Festool keep the dust in the vac. Having said that, the Rigid is an excellent value for the $$$.

[Greg Portland]

Guys, the Festool has a 50mm (~2") inlet. If you use the boom arm you'll have a section of 50mm hose that connects to the standard 27mm? hose. When I use my chopsaw I only use the 50mm hose to get greater CFM @ the tool.

I'm not sure if the manufacturers rate the CFM & s.p. with or without the hoses...

[Brice Burrell]

Static pressure is the critical rating for shop vacs if you're connecting them to hand held tools, not CFM (like a large DC). Also, dropping a HEPA filter into a vacuum doesn't ensure that the entire system is HEPA rated.

The Rigid has lower static pressure ratings but higher CFM #s than Fein or Festool. This means that it is better suited for general shop cleanup & connecting to large tools (contractor saw, etc.) while the Fein and Festool are optimal for use with hand held equipment. I've noticed blow-through of dust on the Rigid (i.e. dust in the air after vacuuming) while the Fein and Festool keep the dust in the vac. Having said that, the Rigid is an excellent value for the $$$.

Static pressure or CFM, however you want to look at it, the quality German vacs aren't easy to compare to the made in China Rigid, Craftsman or ShopVac brands. Remember the Festool vac has two stage filtering and HEPA filter standard, I believe that is optional on the Fein vacs and some of the cheaper brands. Also keep in mind that the Fein and other brands vacs with a HEPA filter and no prefilter bag will kill the HEPA filter in short order.


The Fein and cheaper brands post their static pressure and CFM ratings without HEPA filters. Add the HEPA filter and these are going to drop. Festool's ratings are with the HEPA filter. I've used almost every brand shop vacuum and I can tell you the Fein and Festool vacs are every bit or more powerful than the other brands I've used. The difference is HEPA filtered, tool triggered starting, easy, dust free cleanups and hack of a lot less noise. That makes my Festool vacs a much better value for me over the made in China vacs. Of course not everyone will feel the same....

[Brice Burrell]

Guys, the Festool has a 50mm (~2") inlet. If you use the boom arm you'll have a section of 50mm hose that connects to the standard 27mm? hose. When I use my chopsaw I only use the 50mm hose to get greater CFM @ the tool.

I'm not sure if the manufacturers rate the CFM & s.p. with or without the hoses...

Yes, you are right, also, most other brand hoses will fit the Festool vac, Rigid, Craftsman, ShopVac and other brands will work.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

Andrew, your Festool vac likely has pretty much the same cfm as your Craftsman, the difference is the size hose. The Festool vac comes with a 1 1/4" hose and your Craftsman a 2 1/2" hose so of course it's going to move more air.

I wondered about that..... I think that I will try a larger hose and then perhaps move one of my vacs out of my tiny cramped shop. Thanks for the tip.

Since it was also stated that I can probably use a standard hose, I will see if the standard hose does the trick (as a proof of concept anyway).

[Brice Burrell]

I wondered about that..... I think that I will try a larger hose and then perhaps move one of my vacs out of my tiny cramped shop. Thanks for the tip.

Since it was also stated that I can probably use a standard hose, I will see if the standard hose does the trick (as a proof of concept anyway).

Shouldn't be a problen to try out since your Craftsman hose should fit on the Festool vac. Also see my reply #18.

[Matt Meiser]

If you want a good bigger hose, check out the premium Shop Vac hose at Lowes or Ridgid hose at Home Depot. I've got the latter to use with my CT22. Not quite as nice as a Festool hose but much nicer than the junk that comes with a standard shop vac.

[ian maybury]

If increasing the hose size significantly increases the cfm, then it's going to similarly up the amps drawn. I'd want to be reasonably sure the vacuum was designed to pull those amps.

To the original point that started the thread. I'd be pretty teed off if having bought a top of the range vacuum it quit after relatively little use too. As would I suspect most.

Three questions: (1) Is it possible that something else (e.g. a temp switch or similar) is causing it to shut down?, (2) If indeed it is a failure is it something that others have experienced, or is it an isolated failure?; and (3) Is there a mode of operation likely to cause premature failure? (e.g. running with the filters blocked/the air flow restricted)

If it's an isolated failure for which there's no obvious cause then would it not be worth chasing up Festool to see if some some help might be available? I'd imagine they would want to know anyway...

ian

[Matt Meiser]

Since Festool sells a hose that large, no worries. Just that the "standard" hose for power tools is smaller, and more than sufficient with the design of the tools. I'm glad they do it that way because the small hose is a lot more manageable attached to tools.

[Ken Masco]

I purchased my Festool vac 19 or 15 years ago. Recently it started shutting down (Sounds like the same as yours). Since mine was so old, I took it to a local repair shop and they found it was a faulty connection on the switch. The guy "formed" (read bent) the connectors and said if that didn't fix it I should replace the switch. It's been running fine now for a few weeks.

[Joseph Tarantino]

[QUOTE=Chris Rosenberger;1683987] ...When any product that is out of warranty & something fails, the owner has to pay for the parts if they want it fixed, no matter if it is the highest priced or the lowest priced.... QUOTE]

and that's one of the reasons the majority of my tools are ridgid. they are either gray (lifetime warranty) or registered with the lifetime service agreement (LSA). i only want to buy a tool once and i expect it to last a loooooonnnngg time. i'm not suggesting that ridgids are comparable to festools, but at least when they break, i'm not paying for the repair.

[Brice Burrell]

[QUOTE=Chris Rosenberger;1683987] ...When any product that is out of warranty & something fails, the owner has to pay for the parts if they want it fixed, no matter if it is the highest priced or the lowest priced.... QUOTE]

and that's one of the reasons the majority of my tools are ridgid. they are either gray (lifetime warranty) or registered with the lifetime service agreement (LSA). i only want to buy a tool once and i expect it to last a loooooonnnngg time. i'm not suggesting that ridgids are comparable to festools, but at least when they break, i'm not paying for the repair.

I'm sure you'll pay one way or another.

[Larry Frank]

I recently bought the Festool CT 26 and yes I paid a bunch. I have now used it to finish a bunch of kitchen cabinets and could not be happier. The HEPA filters provide very clean air and with sanding red oak it was much easier on my lungs and sinus. The second part is the noise level which is much less than any other vacuum that I have ever used. I still have my old large Craftsman that is used for some general cleaning but it is loud and dusty. It is also good for picking up water.

Is the Festool expensive - Yes.
Does it collect nearly all of the small dust - Yes.
Is the noise level much less than other vacuums - Yes.

What is great about power tools is that there is a great variety and everyone can pick the one which best fits their needs.

[Bruce Wrenn]

Clean Stream make replacement filters which are far superior to OEM ones. I find them to be the best upgrade you can do to most any vacuum.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

Since Festool sells a hose that large, no worries. Just that the "standard" hose for power tools is smaller, and more than sufficient with the design of the tools. I'm glad they do it that way because the small hose is a lot more manageable attached to tools.

I agree with that. For testing purposes, I will probably just drop on my existing hose. I do like the Festool hose, but the nice Ridgid hose is around $40. The Festool hose (anti-static) if about $160 for a 50mm (almost 2") diameter hose that is about 13 feet long. The 23 foot hose I think is $200, but I need to check.

[george wilson]

I have had 3 Fein vacs,2 at work and 1 at home. They have been around for at least 15 years and are still doing fine(sounds funny!) I like them because they are MUCH quieter than cheaper vacs that scream. They pull the same CFM as the biggest Sears vacs,and by luck,I can jam a soft Sears 2 1/2" vac hose into the opening when I take the long,but smaller Fein hose out. I just use th Fein hose for hooking up with power tools. The automatic start and stop of the vac with the power tools is CERY convenient. I don't see the need to spend more on a vac than the Feins cost.

I find that using the original "bucket" shaped filter bag,and adding a Cleanstream filter inside the bag filter keeps the Cleanstream filter from getting jammed up for a great deal longer than if it is used alone. The vac is still plenty powerful even with both bags on it.

[james bell]

i told my wife to take away all of my tools and keep me out of the workshop if i ever bought another shop vac that wasn't a craftsman. years ago i purchased a shop vac for a second home, and have tried many other brands in the past thirty years. disappointed to say the least. the top craftsman picks up everything (as long as the filter is clean) - nails, concrete chips, practically anything that isn't nailed down.

i have to admit i have never tried any of the 'premium' vacs - fein, festool, etc, but for less than $200, a craftsman can't be beat.

[Steve Rowe]

I wonder if the OP would be equally ticked off for a $500 griz that needed a $130 motor? After all, a cheaper HF with a coupon is much less and just as good. Just food for thought.

[Joseph Tarantino]

[QUOTE=Joseph Tarantino;1684577]

I'm sure you'll pay one way or another.

how? whatever minimal repairs my ridgids have needed so far have either been repaired under warranty, LSA or lifetime guaranty.