Looking for help setting up my Dust Collector.

[Tim Morton]

As I have been posting numerous threads about the shop i am putting together in my basement, it is now come time to think about dust collection. I have a Bridgewood 2HP 220v DC and need to shop for flexpipe and hard pipe over the next 2 weeks. I have read most of the advice on the subject here and would like to hear what size pipe I need to run. I have some kind of splitter attachment for the DC that breaks it out into 2 4" openings. I am thinking it would be better to avoid using this and run a single wider main line where I have marked it out in blue on the drawing. I know NOTHING about CFM calculations, i will read up on it to learn but am just trying to keep it simple and effective. So the quarions are:

1. From the DC itself can I run a short flext pipe up to the main hard pipe? What size and where is the best place to order.I would prefer something cost effective but i want it done well.
2. Maine pipe will be what? S&D pipe? 4" or 6"...
3. Drop downs to the mahines I'm thinking back to flex pipe? 4" ok here?

I know i am over simplifying...but I'm just looking to get an idea here what to order. I have 4-4" blast gates and 1-20' 4" flex pipe that came with the DC from wilke. I also have a 4" contractor saw plate that i will mount up under the saw and was figuring alot of that 20' 4' pipe would go to that.

I have much to read of the nest week, so ant links would be appreciated, and as always...thanks for the help and guidance!!

[John Miliunas]

Tim, as you well know, I used to have that particular DC. Did a great job for me, any-the-who!:) For mine, I took off the "Y" at the impellor housing and got a 5" to 4" reducer. From there, it went to my garbage can "cyclone". Everything in the shop going to that point was via 4" PVC. I tried to get the PVC as close to the equipment as I could and used the flex for the final hookup.

Would the DC have enough "oooomph" to carry 6" ducts. Not sure, though I'm going to error on the side of "no". 5" would probably work better, but that stuff is hard to find in most localities. That said, this ain't gospel. I'd do some more checking, maybe at Bill Pentz's site, as he has an extraordinary amount of research and data on just these types of questions. If you find out that the unit can handle the 6", then definitely go with that! Main point of that is, if/when you upgrade to a cyclone, your ducting will already be done! :D Oh, one more point: Whatever you decide on, make sure you have long sweeps to create your 90* deg. turns. I always used a pair of 45's and, if I had the room, even put a short run of straight pipe in between them. Good luck!:) :cool:

[Jerry Olexa]

http://billpentz.com//woodworking/cyclone/Equipment.cfm

Tim, Maybe more than you want to know but a wealth of info re Dc's.

[Michael Perata]

Tim

I am in the process of upggrading my ductwork from 4" to 6" for my Oneida cyclone. I am using 6" S&D pipe. $12.50 for 10' section. The fittings are expensive, but less than Oneida.

Go 6" as far as you can go and then drop down to 4". I ended up with about 10' of 5" flex tubing to my machines.

[Tim Morton]

Thanks guys...(yes john this is the same DC I bought almost 3 years ago...just getting to hooking it up....hope it still works.) I called Wilke...they tell me they want it hooked up to 5" metal ducting...sounded like they never heard of anyone hooking up a DC to 4" PVC... :confused: I think I was at this point 3 years ago and decided to buy a broom and dustpan. If I'm going to shell out 3 bills to hook this thing up, i just want to do it right. I am sure like john said 4" pVC will be fine....I have always heard steel piping was leaky. not too mention expensive at 3' a foot plus big money for the fittings. Off to call grizzly and see what they recommend.

[Jim Becker]

Tim, you will not likely have any DC vendor "suggest" PVC duct work as it's not allowed for commercial applications, etc. It also sounds like 5" is the ideal size for your particular blower and the main duct run...something to consider. Unfortunately, you can only do that in metal due to availability. 5" will perform better than 4" as you can fit more air in it at a given velocity. (500-600 CFM) But if you need to do 4", do 4". You'll still get 300-300 CFM from that which should work with most tools effectively, or at least until you upgrade to some gonzo "big stuff"!! :D

[Tim Morton]

Tim, you will not likely have any DC vendor "suggest" PVC duct work as it's not allowed for commercial applications, etc. It also sounds like 5" is the ideal size for your particular blower and the main duct run...something to consider. Unfortunately, you can only do that in metal due to availability. 5" will perform better than 4" as you can fit more air in it at a given velocity. (500-600 CFM) But if you need to do 4", do 4". You'll still get 300-300 CFM from that which should work with most tools effectively, or at least until you upgrade to some gonzo "big stuff"!!


I can do 5" metal if that is going to work...can I then drop 4" flex house down to the tools? I am going down to HD tonight to poke around. I'm not against doing anything...just looking for the best solution. I have a couple weeks before i need to start putting it all together. I'm thinking I may simplify the runs a little and maybe bypass the table saw. and drop down a "sweeper" in a place that I couuld sweep up and maybe add a air cleaner over head or something...(just thinking out loud)....my first priority is electricity. Its amazing how little dust my jointer puts out when its unplugged :D

[Jim Becker]

5" 26 Guage metal should be available at your HD if you want to use it. Short radius adjustable elbows are there, too...just use two to make a bigger sweep. On the HD shelf, they should be labeled 26 guage and the display "box" for the components should have a grey or silver label color in their coding system. They may reference this stuff as "stove pipe", too. The straight snap-lock at the 'Depot is often only available in 24" sections, rather than the more convenient 60".

The problem will be for lateral wyes...those at the 'Depot and other sources like that are designed for HVAC work and are "backwards" relative to the ends the crimps are on. (HVAC work flows in the opposite direction from DC...) You may want to order them from KenCraft or Oneide or Penn State or whomever...more expensive, but the right components.

My suggestion for drops is to do 5" drops and only reduce right at the tool with a 5"-4" reducer, also available from HD. You maximize performance that way and leave things open for constructing better hoods in the future. While you can use hose for the entire drop, you'll get better performance if you use duct to as close to the tool as practical...and duct is less expensive than good quality flex hose, too, on a per foot basis.

Get some foil tape, too, to seal things up. Do NOT use "duct tape"...the grey cloth or plastic stuff...it will not last nor seal for a long time. I found that for all but the joints in high-stress areas, the foil tape was all I needed to both seal and construct the runs. For high stress areas, two or three 1/8" x 1/8" pop rivets did the job before hitting it with the tape. I hung mine with 24" heavy duty wire ties...cheap, effective and easy to replace.

You'll have to do the cost comparision between doing 5" 26 guage metal and using 4" PVC...either will work; the larger diameter of the 5" should perform better. If you get a bigger DC later, much of your 5" duct can be retained, too. I would say that 50% of my current configuration is still 5" and it works wonderfully.

And in the understanding of full disclosure, I just plain prefer metal duct. I'm more comfortable with it. But I also have no issue with PVC in a home-shop situation. It has nice cost metrics, works well and is very easy to put together.

[Chris Padilla]

My DC piping will be 6" as much as possible including into my major machines wherever I can get it. I will convert my major machines to 6" wherever possible, too.

The main goal, I think, for DC piping is to maintain the largest diameter possible (6" is usually the ticket for most of us) for as long as possible.


Also, you'll want as straight a pipe into your DC for as long as possible. In other words, I would do something like in the two pics below.

[Tim Morton]

OK...5" metal it is...I have almost a straight shot from the DC across the room going over the Jointer and on to the TS. It is 20 feet. I "could" make up a "Y" connector as shown in my latest drawing and go across to pick up the Miter saw, planer and future router table. Is that better than making a "cross" as show in my previous drawings and in chris's modifications? Notice the fancy metalwork pattern? :cool: I will check out the websites you gave me Jim and figure out what connectors I need. So I will need 5" blast gates as well huh? On making the wide curves in the metal duct work is that via flexible steel or do they make 45 degree corners and I just add short lengths of straight pipe? What do I need to cut this stuff? Is there a major noise difference? I guess thats enough pesky questions...off to shop. One more thing...if I don't do the "Y" splitter as in my pic, how do I make up the connection to "t" it off as in the other pics without having 90 degree intersections?

Thanks for the help.

[Tim Morton]

cool link for all you cyclone owners...but i think it wil help me in shopping for duct work too, you guys might have all seen it years ago....it came up when I was searching for kencraft.

http://www.studio1304.com/silca/cyclone/index.htm

[Jim Becker]

Tim, for your particular situation, your latest drawing is probably going to be the best bet as it helps you avoid some sudden changes in direction. The diagonals are also good as you do NOT want any kind of perimeter path which adds substantially to the distance traveled in the duct. And yes, you'll want 5" gates. Make them or buy them. Making them lets you avoid any...repeat, any...distruption in the duct diameter and is obviously less costly. Terry's are nice and would work fine on your system. Fred V did his similarly, but with metal flanges since his duct work is metal, too.

[Tim Morton]

metal is expensive :mad: I wonder just how MUCH of a hit i will take using 4" S&D pipe...I may just need to move my DC up into the corner near my electrical box...that would cut my duct work in half and make metal more affordable

[Steven Wilson]

Going from 5" to 4" is a big drop, you will notice it. I run a fairly large DC and have 1 4" drop and it really chokes off the CFM that the system is capable of. Running 5" drops is great for almost all machines. To feed those 5" drops 6", 7", and 8" mains are nice depending on how strong your DC is.

[Chris Padilla]

Tim,

6" S+D can be much cheaper. Even the fittings from McMaster-Carr shipped to you are very good prices. Check them out.

[Jerry Olexa]

Tim, yes 5" would be ideal but I see your concerns. Here's a different approach: Remember the most efficient flow of air and CFM is the shortest distance from DC and a straight line (no curves or turns or joints, etc). The Bridgewood, I believe, is mobile. I know many WW'ers who operate their DCs on a portable basis w a flex hose and go from tool to tool w quick adapt. This provide max efficiency/CFM for tool you are using.The 1 1/2 -2 hp units generally do not deliver over 1250 cfm which really says, run one tool at time. In your case, you're setting up a new shop. I always believe in allowing for later flexibility. Once you do hard pipe, you're more or less "locked in" and you've made an investment in time and materials that later, you may want to change. I'd (IMHO) set up the new shop per your plan, hook up the 20ft flex hose w adapter on end and temporarily try this mobile approach for a while. Live/use with your new workshop and then you can make a sound decision on permanent DC piping. This is a bit "off the wall" but might work for you IMO. PS I also know many WWers who have 4" hard pipe systems that work adequately for their needs.

[Tim Morton]

Tim, yes 5" would be ideal but I see your concerns. Here's a different approach: Remember the most efficient flow of air and CFM is the shortest distance from DC and a straight line (no curves or turns or joints, etc). The Bridgewood, I believe, is mobile. I know many WW'ers who operate their DCs on a portable basis w a flex hose and go from tool to tool w quick adapt. This provide max efficiency/CFM for tool you are using.The 1 1/2 -2 hp units generally do not deliver over 1250 cfm which really says, run one tool at time. In your case, you're setting up a new shop. I always believe in allowing for later flexibility. Once you do hard pipe, you're more or less "locked in" and you've made an investment in time and materials that later, you may want to change. I'd (IMHO) set up the new shop per your plan, hook up the 20ft flex hose w adapter on end and temporarily try this mobile approach for a while. Live/use with your new workshop and then you can make a sound decision on permanent DC piping. This is a bit "off the wall" but might work for you IMO. PS I also know many WWers who have 4" hard pipe systems that work adequately for their needs.


I LIKE that idea...I have a 20 4" flex pipe that came with the unit...why not push it around for awhile to get used to the new layout? Thanks for pointing out the obvious....sometimes I'm not that sharp!! I can then use the shop while deciding on a more permanant set-up.

[Tim Morton]

I'm off to HD tonight ( I have to go down twice a week to take my daughter to driving lessons)...it is my intentions to buy either 5" steel or 6" S&D. I have 2 hours to kill and no nudie bars in town :D

[Fred Voorhees]

Tim, for your particular situation, your latest drawing is probably going to be the best bet as it helps you avoid some sudden changes in direction. The diagonals are also good as you do NOT want any kind of perimeter path which adds substantially to the distance traveled in the duct. And yes, you'll want 5" gates. Make them or buy them. Making them lets you avoid any...repeat, any...distruption in the duct diameter and is obviously less costly. Terry's are nice and would work fine on your system. Fred V did his similarly, but with metal flanges since his duct work is metal, too.

Here are two pictures of my rendition of Terry's blast gates. I have no problem recommending them to anyone. These gates are simple to make and work extremely well. They don't cost an arm and a leg to make either.

[Tim Morton]

still no duct work...HD had no 26ga 5" pipe...they only carried 4" and 6". They did have some 5" vent pipe, but that felt pretty flimsy. They also had no 6" S&D pipe. I did see earlier in the day that my local hardware store carried 24ga stove pipe but it was in 24" length's for 4 bucks a pop.(that seemed fair) They thought they could order in longer length's and I will follow that up tomorrow. Buying online looks to be at least 4 or 5 dollars a foot, but more than that the fittings are abound $20 bucks a pop and that add's up quick even in a small shop like mine. I would prefer to keep this between 2 and 3 hundred bucks total.

[Jim Becker]

The 24 guage would be even better, and if they can get your 5' lengths...wonderful! Plus, you're doing business with a local firm. You might as well spend your money there since the "entertainment" situation sounds like it's not going to be making your wallet thinner! :D

[Jerry Olexa]

Tim, where are your priorities?? With the big game Sunday, we haven't heard a word from you about it...Seriously, hope your DC/Workshop project comes together. and you'll take a break to watch "the GAME".:D

[Tim Morton]

Tim, where are your priorities?? With the big game Sunday, we haven't heard a word from you about it...Seriously, hope your DC/Workshop project comes together. and you'll take a break to watch "the GAME".


Is there a GAME this weekend? Who's favored to beat the pats THIS time? :D

j/k...just working on these things to keep busy till sunday night!! It will be a a good thing watching weis(departing offensive coordinator) and brady (winning QB) holding the VL(vince lomardi) trophy up for the last time together....

go pats!!

[Jerry Olexa]

I'm hoping it'll be a decent game . Again, the "guys" are gathering @ a neutral site to watch/eat and drink. Assuming a NE victory, I'll hoist a Sam Adams or Bass Ale to toast a great team AND coach (after the game)!:D

[Tim Morton]

back to the subject at hand...for no other reason than "cost" I chose to do the 4" s&d. It was 25% of the cost of 5" stove pipe. It may not work as well, and may need to be scrapped when I upgrade....but I couldn't justify the biessy fence AND steel ductwork. The yway i figure it i got a free fence for the money I saved in ductwork. I appreciate and afgree with all that was said in here, but it came down to money. If it doesn't work then I'll come up to plan B and i will have only lost out on $100 bucks and a couple days work.

Oh, and guys..I promise it will be a good game tommorrow..

go pats!! :D