View Full Version : Piano refinishing
steve fleischmann
04-10-2011, 8:19 AM
I was given an upright piano from 1893. Unfortunately somewhere along the line it was painted, and repainted.... I began to strip the paint and it appears to be oak with quite an open grain so a lot of the paint is in the pores. I tried sanding a piece and now it looks like it is actually a veneer. Is this possible considering the age? If so what is my best bet for getting it back to a wood finish. I just love the fact that this was built in 1893, I now feel responsible for restoring it as a piece of Americana. I can't just kick it to the curb.
Thanks,
Steve
Tony Bilello
04-10-2011, 11:21 AM
Veneer has been around thousands of years, but not exactly like what we are used to. In your case, veneer is very likely what is on there. Veneer became common in the piano industry in the early to mid 1800's. It was much thicker than what we use today, but it is veneer just the same. I dont know what method you used for stripping chemical ar scraping and sanding?
Chemical stripping will work best and would be my personal option. Get something with a relatively high concentration of methylene chloride from a quality manufacturer. This means that Home Depot and Walmart are probably out of the picture. Also carefully read the MSDS sheets. This contains important health and safety onfo and in this case - it is all true.
As for bringing it back, you might want to google some info on that piano because many of them had painted finishes and not necessarily a natural wood finish. This could be anything from some form of paint, colored lacquers or shellacs.
Howard Acheson
04-10-2011, 11:58 AM
Let me concur that veneering has been used for a long time, particularly on factory type items. Removing the finish should be done using a chemical paint stripper containing methylene chloride. Follow the directions on the label. The paint stripper will do the fastest and most complete job or removing old finishes. It's also the best to remove the prior finish that will be embedded in the large pores of oak. Be careful about sanding veneers as you risk sanding through to the substrate wood. This makes for a problem that is very difficult to repair.
Neal Clayton
04-10-2011, 1:11 PM
Chemical stripping will work best and would be my personal option. Get something with a relatively high concentration of methylene chloride from a quality manufacturer. This means that Home Depot and Walmart are probably out of the picture. Also carefully read the MSDS sheets. This contains important health and safety onfo and in this case - it is all true.
qfe, have a bucket of water nearby. meth chloride chemical burns aren't very fun.
Ernie Miller
04-10-2011, 4:37 PM
In my 30+ years as a registered piano technician, I have seen way too many old upright pianos that were carefully refinished by their owners - only to find out that the piano was incapable of being tuned. There is nothing worse than having to tell someone who has just spent a lot of time, effort, and money on refinishing a piano case that they no longer have a working instrument. If your intention is to actually have a playing instrument, please have it checked out by a qualified piano tech before you tackle the refinishing. The life span of a decent piano is about 50 to 75 years - yours is much older than that. While I have seen a few instruments that old that were still capable of making music, they are the exception rather than the rule.
Ernie
Tony Bilello
04-10-2011, 8:29 PM
qfe, have a bucket of water nearby. meth chloride chemical burns aren't very fun.
YES!!!!!!!!!!!!! I forgot to mention that. In my stripping area, we have water hoses and a water bucket handy. Something I do without realizing it. If you get any on you, wash it off immediately. If you don't wash it off and you dont feel it burn you.....count to 5 and I promise you it will. By then it's too late.
Phil Thien
04-10-2011, 8:50 PM
In my 30+ years as a registered piano technician, I have seen way too many old upright pianos that were carefully refinished by their owners - only to find out that the piano was incapable of being tuned.
Ernie, what happens to older pianos that prevents them from being tuned?
Ernie Miller
04-10-2011, 9:32 PM
Phil,
The steel tuning pins are embedded into a plank of wood (usually hard maple in older pianos)called the pinblock. The holes are drilled to a smaller diameter than the tuning pins so the pins are quite tight in the holes when the piano is new. Every summer, when the maple expands, some of the fibers are crushed against the tuning pin. In the winter, when the wood shrinks, those crushed fibers fall off. Over many years of this expansion and contraction, the hole in the wood has enlarged to the point where the tuning pin is no longer tight. When the torque drops below 30 inch/pounds, the tension of the string is enough to unwind the string that's wrapped around the tuning pin - and the piano can no longer hold its tuning. This is the main reason, but there are others. The pinblock is not a solid plank but is almost always laminated using anywhere from 5 to over 40 layers (in a modern piano). These laminations can separate over many years and severely weaken the pinblock. Even if there's no delamination, the tuning pin holes are so close together that, over many years, cracks developed from tuning pin hole to tuning pin hole. If a larger tuning pin is inserted to make the fit of the pin tighter, it just spreads the crack and the situation worsens.
Ernie
Neal Clayton
04-10-2011, 10:45 PM
YES!!!!!!!!!!!!! I forgot to mention that. In my stripping area, we have water hoses and a water bucket handy. Something I do without realizing it. If you get any on you, wash it off immediately. If you don't wash it off and you dont feel it burn you.....count to 5 and I promise you it will. By then it's too late.
yeah that's the great property of meth chloride isn't it ;). first time you get it on you it feels cool, you wipe it off with a rag and think "ehhh, i'm fine it didn't get me". then 30 seconds later you're running for a faucet.
Phil Thien
04-10-2011, 11:22 PM
Ernie, thanks for the information. Man this site is a treasure trove of valuable data.
steve fleischmann
04-14-2011, 8:39 PM
Thanks to everyone for the input. I spoke with a tuner and the piano is beyond what I'm willing to spend to get it into playing shape.
Ernie Miller
04-14-2011, 9:07 PM
Thanks to everyone for the input. I spoke with a tuner and the piano is beyond what I'm willing to spend to get it into playing shape.
Steve
While I'm sorry that your piano needs more work than you're willing to put into it, I'm glad you learned of its true condition before you went to the trouble of refinishing it. Good move!
Ernie
Phil Thien
04-14-2011, 10:15 PM
Steve
While I'm sorry that your piano needs more work than you're willing to put into it, I'm glad you learned of its true condition before you went to the trouble of refinishing it. Good move!
Ernie
Hey Ernie, I have another question.
If a piano was old but historically significant ("historically" being the operative word, as it is old and unable to be tuned), are there methods/techniques to bring it back? Even if it is expensive, just curious.
Ernie Miller
04-14-2011, 11:17 PM
Hey Ernie, I have another question.
If a piano was old but historically significant ("historically" being the operative word, as it is old and unable to be tuned), are there methods/techniques to bring it back? Even if it is expensive, just curious.
Phil,
Certainly there is. With the possible exception of the cast iron plate, any part can be replaced. Throw enough money at it and you can make any piano as good, or better, than new. This can get quite expensive in that parts for many of these old pianos are no longer commercially available and must be reproduced one at a time in the workshop. In quality grand pianos, restoration is routinely done - including the replacement of the pinblock and soundboard. Upright pianos are not routinely restored because the potential value does not usually warrant the cost of the restoration. Another factor to consider, if the piano is truly an antique, is the necessity of replacing original, historical parts with new modern ones and destroying a piece of historical documentation in the process. In many cases, these pianos are left un-restored (and usually unplayable) in order to preserve their historical significance.
Ernie
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