why are these things so stinkin expensive?????

[Kevin Gregoire]

can anyone please tell me what makes these 3D Square corner jigs cost
around $15 each on average??



http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/ProductImages/clamps/163608.jpg

[Myk Rian]

Corporate greed?

[Larry Norton]

I bought 2 at the last Woodworking Show for $20. ($10 each)

[Gary Curtis]

Wondered the same thing myself.

[Callan Campbell]

Made here in the USA, not overseas. After they're stamped in the press, they get milled for flatness over the whole length. Best way to buy them seems to be at woodworking show cause they'll cut you a deal for a set of 4.
And yes, I'm regretting not buying the second set like everyone else while I was there !!!.

[Brian Kent]

I just found them 2 for $32.99 from Peachtree.

[David Kumm]

Having been in the accounting business for 35 years, I doubt there is much corporate greed in that product. The greed comes from manufacturing them overseas at 1/10th the cost and selling them here for half. And from all of us buying them. Dave

[Bill Miltner]

Sorry, but these are made in the USA.

[Frank Drew]

Not intending to speak for David, but I took him to mean manufacturing overseas in general, not these specific items.

[ed vitanovec]

Yes they are made in the USA. They are stamped and then machined true and square, these are not mass produced on automated assembly lines. I have a pair and they have been very useful to have, plus the quality and accuracy is really good. You can get them cheaper at the woodworking shows, direct from the manufacture. If you buy them from the stores they are going to be more expensive. If the originator of this thread thinks they are poor quality and expensive, "make your own"!

Regards!
Ed

[Frank Drew]

Just curious, what are they used for?

[Jim Summers]

Just curious, what are they used for?

If it is what I think they are, they are used for squaring up during glueing stuff like drawers / boxes.

[David Kumm]

I was defending the price. Costs for products add up quickly, especially if made here and even if produced at a non union wage rate. My point was that corporate greed is more likely a reason if produced overseas and that as consumers our preference for low price makes us greedy also. Dave

[Ray Newman]

I will wager that probably another cost-related factor is low demand for the product.
From the Jevons web page:“Stamped of 3/16th" aluminum, and machined to a tolerance of .002" along the entire 6" edges for the precision of an engineer's square at a fraction of the cost, and much more versatile! “Made in the USA (in Kansas City, Kansas)”http://jevonstoolco.com/_wsn/page3.html

[Brian Kent]

Since it is machined after stamping, it seems fair to me. I might pick some up at a show.

[Bruce Wrenn]

Hit a salvage yard and pick up a length of aluminum angle and slice off as many as you want. Sure they won't be machined to the thousandth, but neither will your wood. They are as expensive as they are because if they were more expensive, no one would buy them.

[Rick Lizek]

Seems pretty reasonably priced for where it's made and the quantities it's made in. You could make your own out of plywood for a lot less, just your time and plywood scraps. Pretty simple design and concept. Simple as making ZCI, push sticks, cauls, etc. I would have never thought anyone would buy these items if I sold them.

[Jeff Duncan]

If you think those are costly you haven't spent much time shopping for machinists tools. Accuracy costs.....the more accurate the more costly. I don't think that's a bad price at all....but then again I bought a 4' Starett straightedge....talk about cheap:eek:

good luck,
JeffD

[John McClanahan]

I saw these at the woodworking show in Kansas City. I almost bought a pair, but opted for the aluminum ones that Woodpeckers sells. They are suppose to be more accurate on the inside of the square, at about the same price.

As for the price, I can find 10", 40 tooth carbide tipped saw blades for less than $20 at the BORG. Why would anyone pay $100 for a Forrest WW2? :cool::D

John

[Dan Rude]

I bought them at a show from the owner of the company. I like them and use them all the time. I even have a set of mini ones for small boxes, that he tried adding to his product line. They are machined out of a block of AL. I haven't seen them again though. If I see them at a show agaoin, I'll be buying another set.

[Kevin W Johnson]

Having been in the accounting business for 35 years, I doubt there is much corporate greed in that product. The greed comes from manufacturing them overseas at 1/10th the cost and selling them here for half. And from all of us buying them. Dave

Actually, the greed comes from manufacturing stuff overseas at 1/10th the cost and selling here at the same cost as if made here.

As for this item in question, i dont think $15 is bad given that it has machined surfaces and is made here in the USA. I'd love to here from the company that makes these, and know the portion of the sales price that goes to taxes alone (all tax liabilites related to running a business in the US these days).... I'm willing to bet it's more than the profit they make on it.

[Larry Edgerton]

I was defending the price. Costs for products add up quickly, especially if made here and even if produced at a non union wage rate. My point was that corporate greed is more likely a reason if produced overseas and that as consumers our preference for low price makes us greedy also. Dave

!00% in agreement, especially that last bit. I think the price is just fine myself, don't see the problem.

[Ellen Benkin]

They are not expensive. They are small tools that do one thing and do it excellently and they will last longer than you do. Yes, you can spend your time making squares out of plywood but wouldn't you rather be making more interesting things out of wood?

[Chris Fournier]

They are not expensive. They are small tools that do one thing and do it excellently and they will last longer than you do. Yes, you can spend your time making squares out of plywood but wouldn't you rather be making more interesting things out of wood?

I understand your point but honestly I could knock out four of these things in scrap plywood in 5 to 10 minutes. That's pretty good payback! Now you can use the money you saved to buy something that you can't easily make. Way ahead of the game now!

David's observations about greed are SPOT ON!

[Kevin Gregoire]

i used to work as a machinist so i know the quality of good tools and also the price of how cheap things can get when mass produced
all this is is bent up aluminum angle stock and then milled. it is good these are made in America but still $15 or so just seems like a lot
to me for a simple little item.
but for comparison i just bought a little hand held camcorder the size of a cell phone and it has a little LCD screen and it holds hours of
video and it was the same price as the 3D square, but of course it is of Asian origin but still... its a camcorder for same price!

i know im going to catch a ton of flack for this but its just wacky the difference in something for same price.

[Myk Rian]

i know im going to catch a ton of flack for this but its just wacky the difference in something for same price.
Getting flack seems to be the norm around here.
Maybe people didn't pay attention to the ? at the end of my post.

[Mike Heidrick]

Seeing how they are boxed at the woodworking shows I would not put these in any category of precision or value. I think I would spend the difference and get one from woodpecker.
http://www.woodpeck.com/clampingsquare6.html

[Matt Meiser]

i used to work as a machinist so i know the quality of good tools and also the price of how cheap things can get when mass produced
all this is is bent up aluminum angle stock and then milled. it is good these are made in America but still $15 or so just seems like a lot
to me for a simple little item.

Junky isn't really a fair portrayal--they are pretty well made. Junky is the plastic Rockler one I have that I can flex with my hands. Its not angle stock. Its cut from flat stock (around 1/8") and then the two sides are bent. I imagine you could make it from angle, but then you'd have to tig weld the inside corner because that's where all the stress on them is in use and you'd need to cut some clearance on the outside corner weakening it. If you were going to do that, perhaps you could just accurately cut the 45 and weld the whole thing and forgo the bending process.

So, what could you make these for, after paying wages to yourself or others, marketing, insurance, taxes, materials, and everything else they are doing?

My local hardware store sells a 6" corner brace for about $8. Of course made in China and much more simple to manufacture. An extra $7, actually seems pretty cheap.

I'm sure the Woodpecker ones are a whole other level.

[peter leyden]

Before recycling my beat up old aluminum storm door I pulled it apart and saved the die cast corner bracers which serve to keep the door square. When checked with a square they looked , well, square. The price was right!
Pete Leyden

[Gary Max]

Heck this whole tread went a different direction than I thought-----I spent the day hunting around the shop looking for scrap Aluminum-----have you folks been watch the cost??????????????

[John R Green]

You're not asking the right question.......

Am I willing to pay $15 for this item (little piece of junk) & what will it do for me?
I paid 10x that amount for bifocals that weigh a lot less and are machined to finer tolerances.
No one made me buy them, but what I get in return is of far greater value than keeping $150 in the piggy bank.
The first question all marketing folks ask "Are there enough people out there willing to pay the price for this product or service for me to make a profit and stay in business ?"
You're really the only one that can answer your question.

[Rick Thom]

these work perfectly fine for me and cost no $.
make them any size you want but larger yields more accuracy.

[Tony Zaffuto]

Own a pair and would not hesitate to buy again at full price.

[glenn bradley]

I have a few but, like Rick T. I reach for these more often than not.

191062

Of course if I factor in my tablesaw, my time aligning it, my sled, the time to build it and align it and the scrap plywood; maybe the commercial ones are cheaper :D

[Jim Leslie]

I have a pair of these and they were expensive! But for cabinet and drawer glue up I found them indispensable.

[Dave Lehnert]

And we wonder why a company moves over seas to manufacture.

[Gerald Senburn]

"Are the overpriced?" Simply put, no. Because people are buying them. If they were overpriced and that easy to make, people would simply do that or a much cheaper alternative would pop up quickly. I think you're vastly underestimating the difficulty of making them and vastly overestimating the profit margin. Cost of production and getting a product into your hands is far more than just materials and labor.

"Corporate greed" is a myth. "Corporate desire for profit" is why they exist. If your rent suddenly drops, do you go to your employer and say "hey, I'll work for less now". Of course not. Does that make you "greedy"?

[John Coloccia]

A sandwich at Subway costs about $5.00 and takes about 2 minutes to make. I think those squares are worth 3 sandwiches. There's plenty of cheap alternatives if you're only willing to pay bowl of rice.

[Paul Johnstone]

I have a set of four of these. They are worth it.. I use them often.

I've definitely spent more money on other woodworking gadgets that were used less. I think they are a good value.

Of course, there's a homemade version of just about every tool/jig out there.. so DIYing this is an option.. I'm happy I bought these though.
I also have the Rockler plastic versions of these, but I like the alunimum version pictured better.

[Bill Hinds]

Mark Twain said the single most cause of high prices is the people willing to pay them!

[Lee Schierer]

I think the metal ones are fairly priced at $15. You can buy plastic ones for $11.99 at some of the larger woodworking store chains.http://images.rockler.com/rockler/images/29190-03-500.jpg. Personally, I wouldn't spend the money on them as I have learned that if you cut parts square, they will assemble square and it pays to check everything for being square before the glue sets up.:D

[Joe Adams]

I bought a pair at the Woodworking show. The first time I used them I wished I had bought four. They work great and will last a lifetime. Made in USA means a lot to me and I'm willing to pay more for quality.

[Paul Steiner]

I love mine, I bought them about 5 years ago after seening them on NYW. I think I paid 45 for a set of 4. These are a 3rd hand that knows to hold at 90 and my wife does not even know how to do that.

Why are these better that the one's picture above? The 1/4" machined aluminum edge can be clamped with a pinch clamp or quick grip toggling pinch clamp making assembly easier and faster than having to assemble something with the help of my wife.