Picture of new shaper, question about cutters

[Silas Smith]

Well, I picked up my new shaper yesterday. I spent about 2 hours cleaning the top and getting it greased up. I was a little dissapointed to discover that there were no spindles that came with it. One the bright side, it did come with the 1/2 in collet adapter so I can run my bigger router bits in it!

The man who sold it to me also threw in an extra HTC mobile base for $25 that fits my drill press stand perfectly. All total, I spent $68 on a new 3/4 spindle, $25 on the extra base and $400 for the shaper! The shaper has never been used for anything other than a glorified router and has very little wear on the USA made marathon motor.

Here is my question. I still would like to get a router table, would it be crazy to get the rail and stile profile for the router table and the panel raising cutter for the shaper? My though process is along the lines that it will be a little while before I get a power feeder for the shaper and cutting those rails on the shaper is a bit intimidating (not to say that the router isn't dangerous also). What do you think, get one cutter set or split up the work. Another advantage would be that I would be able to have a friend cut the panels while I worked on the rails/stiles.

[Scott Banbury]

You've got a shaper, I say use it!

The larger diameter of the cutters will give you much less tearout.

Get some Board Buddies for it and use a push stick and you'll be fine.

[Larry Copas]

Like Scott said...ya got a shaper use it but take a few precautions.

I very seldom use the stock fence for anything...custom fences are the way to go.

The fence on the left is for rails and stiles with board buddies Scott mentioned. I use it with a push board and have a sled for the cope. Fence on the right is for raised panels.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v12/5tucker/Woodnet%20stuff/shaper.jpg

Btw I have the same model shaper...got it slightly used some 10 years for about twice the price you paid. It has seen hard use running all out with a feeder on flooring, crown, and deck rails. Can’t say enough good things about the machine.

[Scott Banbury]

Larry, I'm gonna make one of those panel cutting fence/guards tomorrow!


Why didn't I think of that? :confused:

[Steve Clardy]

I have a table with double routers for the rail and stiles. I use a shaper for the door panels.
I've never considered doing raised panels with a router. The shaper is best .

[Russ Massery]

Silas, I've had a shaper for about 8yrs now. They do a great job on rail & stiles also but I would recommed a sliding shaper jig from delta for do the cope cuts. You can use it on a router table also. I have a router table also for doing smaller profiles.

Hope it helps, Russ

[John Edwards]

You might try looking at these links.

http://www.relcuttools.com/index.shtml

http://www.riessws.com/

http://www.wynmatic.com/

All super good stuff. I use all these products on a weekly basis in my home shop.
The Crafter series makes making doors safe and easy.
Freeborn cutters are great and priced right, here.
Wayne has some unique products that make difficult tasks simple.
None of this stuff is cheap but it is well made and the safety aspect is worth the cost.

[Larry Copas]

I had two requests for more information on my shaper fences so....

Fence for rails and stiles opened up...by the way all of these fences do great collecting dust. 1st pic

Push block. 2nd pic

Sled for the cope...got 3 different versions of this one. 3rd pic

Raised panel fence. I have several variations of this one for different style cutters. 4th pic

Guard for curved stock. Used both on the router table and shaper. Got maybe 4 more versions of this one. The plastic thingy is Delta’s expensive and not to useful shaper guard. 5th pic

Hope maybe by posting this stuff I will have saved somebodies finger.

Somebody’s gonna jump in here and say forget the fences....just buy a feeder. I have access to a feeder but for a lot of small jobs I would rather use a good jig or fence.

[John Petsche]

Great jig ideas.

[Jeff Duncan]

I had two requests for more information on my shaper fences so....


Somebody’s gonna jump in here and say forget the fences....just buy a feeder. I have access to a feeder but for a lot of small jobs I would rather use a good jig or fence.

OK, just buy the feeder.....there, you happy Larry;)

Feeders are great and will improve many aspects of your experience with a shaper. Improved cut quality, safer operation, less fatigue especially when doing larger quantities. However good fences are also a must. Most of the smaller shapers out there have pretty poor a$$ fences IMHO. The best low end fence I've used is Delta's aluminum version, which is actually a pretty good fence. Custom fences are also great to have and can be made to run all sorts of tricky operations as you discover more uses for the shaper.

Lastly you don't need to go out and spend money for a coping sled. I build my own out of scrap wood and a couple toggle clamps and they work as good if not better than anything I've seen on the market. I have several so I can do cabinet doors on up to 2-1/4" thick passage doors. Put that sled money aside in a fund for something like cutters, or molding heads, or hey....how bout a feeder fund:D

good luck,
JeffD

[frank shic]

how many hp is that thing, silas?

[Peter Quinn]

Here is my question. I still would like to get a router table, would it be crazy to get the rail and stile profile for the router table and the panel raising cutter for the shaper? My though process is along the lines that it will be a little while before I get a power feeder for the shaper and cutting those rails on the shaper is a bit intimidating (not to say that the router isn't dangerous also). What do you think, get one cutter set or split up the work. Another advantage would be that I would be able to have a friend cut the panels while I worked on the rails/stiles.

Crazy? I can't speak to that. Probably most of this wood working endeavor is a bit off center consider the expense to which we go to make things we could probably buy cheaper. So who is to say whats crazy? Better IMO you spend the money on a feeder (even a 1/4HP or 1/2HP), make your own coping sled, build a panel hood like the one shown above, maybe buy a better Delta X-5 hood for split fence use, learn to use a back feeder. That old style Delta fence with no indeed adjustment is a major pain to set up for split fence work, where you are jointing off the whole edge. I ditched mine years ago. The first time I made stiles and rails on a shaper with feeder was the last time I ever wanted to use a router table for that particular task. Now I wouldn't even consider making doors on the router table, though I still love my router table for its various strengths. I suppose ultimately it may depend on what else you want to do with the shaper and how many doors you want to make. Moldings of all kinds come out infinitely better and safer with a feeder, as do raised panels in most cases. But router bits are a fair bit cheaper than shaper cutters. Second choice? Buy the router bits but spin them on the shaper, slow down the feed rate to match. When I make doors on the shaper with a feeder it goes so fast I really don't need a friend pushing parts for me, its over before that. Maybe a friend sanding parts and gluing up would help?

My instincts when I got my first shaper were to go full in as much as budget would allow and embrace the shaper for the work horse it is, glad I did.


,

[frank shic]

peter, please elaborate on building doors with a shaper vs router table! are the cuts cleaner? are they more consistent? or is it just much faster? i usually take one pass to do copes and sticking but it is a slight drag pushing the stiles through the two feather boards i have set up to maintain the wood tight to the fence.

[Gary Curtis]

Here's why a shaper makes cleaner cuts than routers. The diameter of the cutters is much larger. So the cutting edge tends meets the wood with more of a tangential action. This results in a shearing cut. A router comes down at a more perpendicular angle and is more of a chopping action.

The same difference applies to blade height on a tablesaw. They say to keep the blade as low as possible for a cleaner cut. The teeth are a tad more parallel to the grain. And thus they shear the wood.

[Rod Sheridan]

peter, please elaborate on building doors with a shaper vs router table! are the cuts cleaner? are they more consistent? or is it just much faster? i usually take one pass to do copes and sticking but it is a slight drag pushing the stiles through the two feather boards i have set up to maintain the wood tight to the fence.

Hi Frank, yes they're cleaner, more consistent and much faster.

The cutter diameter on the shaper provides better cutting geometry, the shaper doesn't flex, the fences are far superior and the stock feeder provides a consistent feed rate and holds objects flat against the fence or table.

An outboard fence and stock feeder also allow you to dimension and profile in one pass, as the shaper cutters take the entire edge away.

I couldn't imagine using a router table instead of a shaper for most work...........Regards, Rod.

P.S. Buy an insert head and then the knives are in the $20 to $30 range.

[Jeff Duncan]

Shapers really are awesome tools for running a lot of stock and as the others mentioned, faster, more consistent, cleaner, and even safer. Like most things however it comes down to your own usage. If your making a lot of doors a shaper will greatly improve your experience. If your building a couple here and there on the occasional weekend....well then you may or may not appreciate the benefits?

JeffD

[Peter Quinn]

peter, please elaborate on building doors with a shaper vs router table! are the cuts cleaner? are they more consistent? or is it just much faster? i usually take one pass to do copes and sticking but it is a slight drag pushing the stiles through the two feather boards i have set up to maintain the wood tight to the fence.


Gary and Rod covered my thoughts pretty well. Yes to all three of your questions. A feeder exerts several hundred pounds of down force while pushing forward at a near perfect rate, hard to accomplish that with feather boards and manual feed. The cuts per inch are usually higher, very rigid spindle with less chatter, bigger diameter cutters and all that implies. I might add that I'm usually pushing the stock through back to back, so always one board going in, one coming out. This goes pretty fast. On the router I found I'd have to sort of stage each pass, blow off or vacuum more frequently even with decent DC stuff seemed to escape a bit. On the shaper I feed a pile of door parts like it was one long board, requires very minimal sanding. I feed a bit slower than I should for optimal cutter life to keep the knife marks very close together, as slow as a species will allow without burning, and its still much faster than my router table and no fatigue from holding on to push pads for dear life. And you almost never see threads that start "My shaper table is sagging..."...that big flat piece of cast iron helps keep things consistent, though you could certainly get that in a top flight router table too.

As for coping, its basically the same on either machine IME. Panel raising is so much better on the shaper its no comparison. One pass, nearly sand free cuts when the cutters are sharp, perfectly consistent tongue thickness. And then there are moldings. Panel molding, base molding, crowns, coves, beads etc., all the things that tend to go with doors to elaborate a cabinet job, they all come out much better on a power fed shaper. Pattern work is easier too, though for me the first time I turned on the shaper with that big cutter spinning nearly unprotected, it gave me pause. A long pause. But there too the shaper has the advantage in terms of speed and quality.