Soaking stones

[john davey]

I have a Norton 220/1000, King 1000 with attached base and a king 8000 with attached base. Should I leave these in water all of the time? I am assuming the Norton is OK and the king 1000 (not sure if it will affect the connected base). I am not sure about the king 8000. I have read that 8000 stones should not soak and just be misted before use. So I am confused. I know in Cosman's video he pulls his 8000 out of water and looks like they live there. His does not have a base attached. I use the Norton 1000 side to flatten the other 2 stones which are my primary stones. I have not really used the 220 side of that stone but I do have some beat up chisels that may get some use on it... Thanks, John

[Andrew Gibson]

before I got my shaptons, all of my Kings lived in water. my 8000 with base was in water for at least 4 months without any noticeable issue... not that I'm right, but i didn't notice an issue.

make sure you keep those kings flat, mine hollowed very quickly.

[Nelson Howe]

My king 8000 said spritz only, don't soak. My 800 has no base, and soaks all the time. Be sure to flatten often (like after every use.) They're pretty soft. I just got a set of Shapton pros, and I'm glad I did.

[Stuart Tierney]

They should all be ok in the water permanently, but the #8000 may soften a little. It'll still work fine, and will harden up again when it dries out a little, but there is often some effect. Hardly worth worrying about, and some folks prefer the #8000 softened up a little. ;)

And please flatten before you use them, not after. Many stones change shape when wetted, so once they're ready to go, flatten then use.

(Shapton Professional included.)

Stu.

[Niels Cosman]

i used to leave my nortons in the water all the time, but I have noticed that they wear a lot slower (less flattening) when I only put them in the water at the beginning of a work day and leave them to dry when i am finished. leaving them in the water wont damage them, just make them softer. i have no experience with king stones.

[Kevin Foley]

Cold climate note -- don't let them freeze if they are in a garage or outbuilding.

[john davey]

Thanks for the replies. I think I will dunk the Norton and the King 1000. I will mist / nugura the 8000. Damn it looks like everyone is going to the Shapton Pro's. Is it just an ease thing or are they better/faster???

[Stuart Tierney]

Damn it looks like everyone is going to the Shapton Pro's. Is it just an ease thing or are they better/faster???

Only if you put a gun to my head, and even then, I'd accidently/on purpose drop them and break them.

But yes, Shapton Pro are faster, flatter, easier to use and less troublesome than Norton or King, and used up to a high enough grit, will make your tools sharper as well.


I won't mention what I use. The Shapton disciples don't like hearing their stones aren't 'King of the heap' any more and I'm sick of fighting it for the time being.


Stu.

[Andrew Gibson]

Stuart, you sound so defeated.

I have to say I do Love how much simpler it is to use the shaprons over the Kings. some have a problem with soaking, but I found the biggest issue was keeping the kings flat. I would count to 20 and I had to flatten the stone... with the shaptons I can go at least to 40 :P

I wish I has the chance to try all the stones that are available these days, but alas I have not the resources... If someone would like I would be happy to do an independent test of all the high end stones... PM me and I will give you my address for you to send the products.

[Stuart Tierney]

Stuart, you sound so defeated.




It's difficult to go against the flow, especially when it's been perpetuated for several years and now established as 'truth'.

And equally difficult to be believed when you're selling stuff. With the amount of BS that's been thrown around in the past, claiming anything in this game is automatically treated with scepticism.

I'll get there eventually, I hope.

Stu.

[Terry Beadle]

I permanently soak stones up to 3000 grit as a rule but the stone dictates the treatment. By that I mean I have a 8000 grit king that just doesn't want a spritz. It demands a pre-soak so soak it I do. There's a 6000 grit king that doesn't care. Either way pre-soak/spritz, it does about the same. The advertised 12,000 chinese stone demands a soak and it's not really 12,000. It's a natural stone and it seems to be a little more than half the advertised grit. It does however cut swiftly is priced as it is I think it is a bargain. It also does a better job on A2 and the harder steels. HSS likes it too.

I have an Ice Bear 10,000 and it just needs a spritz or two....and it is as advertised. If I use the Ice Bear on a resharpen, no hone-ing green or yellow needed. I know some have said the Ice Bear can't hold a candle to ....etc. My experience is it's a great stone. I look forward to winning the lotto and buying a truly natural super fine Japanese water stone in the 22,000 grit variety but so far no winners...hoot!

Stu....color me stoned ! Hoot!

[george wilson]

My post seems to have vanished. I was wondering how you can keep stones soaking without algae and other stuff starting to grow in it? My choice has been a diamond stone,then black,then whits ceramic stone. No soaking needed. And I don't have space left to put up a big sharpening station anyway.

[David Weaver]

My experience is it's a great stone. I look forward to winning the lotto and buying a truly natural super fine Japanese water stone in the 22,000 grit variety but so far no winners...hoot!



Natural stones are such a can of stuff to get into, too. Even when you do get a really fine one, you find they like old steel better than new steel, and if they're really hard, they may not cut "new steel" at all (at least for practical purposes), unless they are super primo. Even then, the only way to avoid a gamble is to go with a known retailer or specialty shop. I think I have 8 of them, I have had two that I thought I wouldn't feel guilty selling to someone else - and one of those I already sold and took a loss of almost half the price. So I guess that means I have 1 left that I would consider a fine and fast stone (I got that one from alex gilmore), and still, nothing cuts the really tough steels like an artificial stone or diamonds, and they do it for so much less.

Getting into all of the natural stones is something I kind of wish I would've cut off a lot earlier, because I only use one of them regularly and now I have a lot of money sunk into them and I couldn't, in good conscience, try to sell them for half of what I paid for them.

[David Weaver]

I won't mention what I use. The Shapton disciples don't like hearing their stones aren't 'King of the heap' any more and I'm sick of fighting it for the time being.


Maybe not king of the heap, but king of quick and good enough - certainly "sharper and faster" than the king generation of stones if that's the aim (and cheap if bought right).

Signed-
The Barmaid (who can't decide whether to soak the chosera, even though once it's been soaked, it cuts fast and leaves a polish like jewelry)

:p

[Mike Holbrook]

I have King, Shaptons and the stones Stu is not mentioning (Sigma- Power Ceramic & Select 2 stones). I think the general rule is the stones at 1000 and less may benefit more from soaking than the higher grit stones although as others have posted opinions may very. Sounds like John has a good plan. I don't usually leave stones in the water for more than a few hours. Some are more sensitive to the prep work and either leave the lower grit stones in water (Lee Valley has a good bath for this) or only purchase stones that generally do not need soaking.

IMHO..The Kings dish and do not work that great on harder steels. The Shaptons work decent on most steel but in my estimation are way to easy to break. I think the Sigmas work better on more steels than any of the other stones and being harder and thicker are much less prone to breaking. The only down side I find to the Sigmas is the stones below 1,000 may need a little soak time. Sigma stones are sold at Lee Valley and Tools from Japan. Tools from Japan has a much larger selection of the Sigma/Select 2... stones.

[Zach Dillinger]

My post seems to have vanished. I was wondering how you can keep stones soaking without algae and other stuff starting to grow in it? My choice has been a diamond stone,then black,then whits ceramic stone. No soaking needed. And I don't have space left to put up a big sharpening station anyway.

George,

Back when I used waterstones, I kept mine soaking all the time in a plastic tub. To fight algae and other various nasty things from growing, I put a capful of bleach in the water. It didn't have any adverse effects on the stones and it worked quite nicely to control any unwanted residents.

[Curt Putnam]

It's difficult to go against the flow, especially when it's been perpetuated for several years and now established as 'truth'.

And equally difficult to be believed when you're selling stuff. With the amount of BS that's been thrown around in the past, claiming anything in this game is automatically treated with scepticism.

I'll get there eventually, I hope.

Stu.

Well Sir, if it's any comfort, I believe. I bought two of my stones literally weeks before I came to "know" you and curse the timing every time I pull them out. Fortunately, they are consumables and will need to be replaced. When that time comes I will tell how I am working and ask how much money should I send to solve my problem(s.) There is too much trusted anecdotal evidence for that level of trust not to exist. Wish I could do the same with planes. It's not that I don't trust, it's just that I'm not sure I could get this old body to move in new directions. Hope I didn't hurt the cause with this.