Inlay with difficult pieces

[John Coloccia]

My logo is a bit difficult to inlay just because of how thin it is. My smallest mill just barely fits to cut the cavity (1/32")...and that doesn't really fit for much of it. Beyond that, it's difficult just to hold the pieces in place to mark them, so this is my process on difficult inlays like this.

First, here is the victim...

http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac335/jcoloccia/Headstock%20Inlay/1.jpg

and here are the individual pieces that I cut out....this happens to be mother of pearl.

http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac335/jcoloccia/Headstock%20Inlay/2.jpg

The first thing I do is put some double sided tape where the logo goes. I need to cut out around the tuner holes. This is facilitated by shining a flashlight from the back so I can actually see the hole.

http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac335/jcoloccia/Headstock%20Inlay/3.jpg

Next I just lay the tuner nut and washer on the headstock so I can see where everything fits. You'll see why in a second...the logo just barely fits so I want to be sure to get it aligned properly and that it's aesthetically pleasing.

http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac335/jcoloccia/Headstock%20Inlay/4.jpg

Here it is all aligned and happy.

http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac335/jcoloccia/Headstock%20Inlay/5.jpg

Now I go over it with a sharp x-acto blade and carefully cut away the double sided tape. I think I used three blades for this. I like working with sharp blades as a slightly dull blade will tug on the tape and make a mess.

http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac335/jcoloccia/Headstock%20Inlay/6.jpg

Now I mask it off so I don't make a mess.

http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac335/jcoloccia/Headstock%20Inlay/7.jpg

Then I spray it with some rustoleom white primer. Anything would work, I guess, but this is what I happen to use.

http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac335/jcoloccia/Headstock%20Inlay/8.jpg

So now this is what I have when I remove the tape...

http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac335/jcoloccia/Headstock%20Inlay/9.jpg

Now I get some more fresh blades and scribe around the inlay again. There is a lot of over spray and general messiness when you first spray the primer, so scribing makes it that much more precise. I often use the x-acto blade upside down...I find it leaves a better line like that sometimes. Then I carefully....VERY carefully grab the inlay pieces with tweezers, and gently wiggle them back and forth. It will eventually come free. When I'm done with all that, it looks something like this:

http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac335/jcoloccia/Headstock%20Inlay/10.jpg

The rest is pretty straightforward, but for the uninitiated that happen to be reading this thread, now I grab my trusty dremel with the StewMac base...

http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac335/jcoloccia/Headstock%20Inlay/11.jpg

...and have at it. As you're fitting it, be sure to remember to scrape the primer off the individual inlay pieces! The back and front don't matter, but the sides certainly do. When I'm done, it looks a little like this:

http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac335/jcoloccia/Headstock%20Inlay/12.jpg

Normally, you strive to not make all the little bobbles that you see here, but again I'm a little limited by my cutter. If it where really important to be perfect, I would do this particular inlay by hand. In this case, a slight bit of sloppiness is okay, and you'll see why in a second.

Then I glue it in with black epoxy. The fiberboard veneer it's inlayed into will be pitch black once I shoot it with lacquer.

http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac335/jcoloccia/Headstock%20Inlay/13.jpg

When it's all sanded flush, you'll never see the tiny mistakes.

http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac335/jcoloccia/Headstock%20Inlay/14.jpg

For larger inlays, I usually just hold it down and scribe so it's a far simpler process. I could probably hold these down too, their alignment to each other is critical so it's far easier for me to get the alignment done on the double sided tape where I can see everything all at one.

One thing I'll be experimenting with in the coming months is using one of those turbine carvers that use dental burrs and spin at 400,000RPM. That should be a significant upgrade and should bring a whole new level of precision to the inlay process.

[Chris Fournier]

Nothing wrong with that! That is fine work. I like your logo I think that it is very elegant.

Have you considered shopping this procedure out to a fella with a laser - mortising and cutting out the inlay? Souless perhaps but I've been getting stuff done by laser for some time and the quality is flawless. In the end my customers get more for less when I sub the laser work out. I realise that it may not work with the intent of handbuilding guitars!

[Harvey Pascoe]

I'm still struggling with inlays. I've tried the double bevel method with scroll saw, direct carving and the routing method and I've not found any of them very good. Could you do that inlay directly in wood without any means of hiding mistakes?

Routing by hand never gives me clean enough lines and neither does hand carving. I read about other people doing it just fine and can't figure out why I can't. I'm doing wood in wood inlays that are not as small and delicate as yours.

[John Coloccia]

Nothing wrong with that! That is fine work. I like your logo I think that it is very elegant.

Have you considered shopping this procedure out to a fella with a laser - mortising and cutting out the inlay? Souless perhaps but I've been getting stuff done by laser for some time and the quality is flawless. In the end my customers get more for less when I sub the laser work out. I realise that it may not work with the intent of handbuilding guitars!

Actually, there's a guy I'm working with now and we are experimenting with laser cutting pearl. At a minimum, I may have him laser my headstocks, even if I still cut the MOP by hand. Maybe I'll start ordering the logo too. I don't mind having a machine cut logo. Honestly, I think it's a very poor use of my time. I'm always open to making things better :D

Re: the logo
I worked with a graphic designer for a couple if months to nail that down. It was a great process. Once I cut it out, though, I noticed some funniness in the outline. Some of the lines have not so gracefull transitions in them. It looks ok on paper but it's very noticeable when it's cut out in stark white on black! I'm going to give him a ring tommorow and gave him go over the whole thing carefully to smooth it all out. That's the first time I've tried to inlay this new one, and I have to admit I'm pretty pleased overall.

That Turbocarver will be incredible, though, if I ever get around to it.

[John Coloccia]

I'm still struggling with inlays. I've tried the double bevel method with scroll saw, direct carving and the routing method and I've not found any of them very good. Could you do that inlay directly in wood without any means of hiding mistakes?

Routing by hand never gives me clean enough lines and neither does hand carving. I read about other people doing it just fine and can't figure out why I can't. I'm doing wood in wood inlays that are not as small and delicate as yours.


Look at the lower part of my C. That's the thickest part of the logo and really the only place I have more than a whisper of room for my bit to fit. The fit is practically perfect. The key is removing the waste before going for the outline. If you try and remove more than just a hair of material at a time, the router will get yanked all over the place. Thats why where the bit is practically the sane size as the inlay, I can't hold the line. I can't react quickly enough to keep the bit centered. Where I have a bit more room, I remove the waste first, and then I slowly attack that edge until it's perfect. Since you're only removing a whisp of material, it slices through like butter.

On any inlay larger than you see here, I'm confident could achieve a very tight fit. If I'm going to be honest with myself, I don't think I would get good results on anything much smaller than this. I know people who can. I'm an inlay hack...I'm just good enough to get by! I don't think I could go this small and have it come out perfectly though I'd like to get there one of these days.

Another helpful hint is use a foot switch! I can't tell you how many times I screwed up looking for the off button.

[Chris Fournier]

It's pretty tough to make such a fluid and sparse logo look just right isn't it! I think that it looks great but as you point out perhaps the J/C intersection and J between the C could be a bit nicer? VERY fussy evaluation I admit. I hand sign my signature on my flyfishing nets and the graphic artist who cleaned up my ink and brush efforts for my web-site really spent a lot of time on it. I know where you're coming from. http://www.cflandingnets.com I barterd with the artist that did my work and he ended up with a built-in unit in his house as repayment! Lots of hidden hours when it comes to good graphics.

The fellow that does the laser work for me charges $1/minute plus set up and he can get a lot done in a minute. If I could avoid shell dust in my shop I would! Pride of ownership being set aside of course.

[Harvey Pascoe]

I understand what you mean, John, but yours are no better than mine and you are filling, In raw wood you can't do that. I use carving knives to inscribe a deep line, then cut it to a vee on the inside of the line so, then bring on the router. Still not perfect. Could be that I just need more practice as there are people who can do this in wood perfectly. I'd like to go visit Ervin Symogi sometime, that man is incredible with inlays. Maybe Chris has got the right idea IF you got a laser nearby. If you have to ship it off, that's a cost/time problem.

Oh, yeah, the infamous off switch and Dremel reverses the position of every vertical switch in the world: up is off, down is on which I still get wrong after years of use.

[John Coloccia]

I understand what you mean, John, but yours are no better than mine and you are filling, In raw wood you can't do that.

The point I was trying to make is that mine is imperfect in the spots where I had practically no room to work, but I can nail it pretty well if I have even just a little room to work. You can to, and it really is just a matter of practice and discipline to stay away from that line until there's barely just a touch of it left. Then you can carefully chip away at it and it will be perfect. You can also go around the edge with a hammer and gently squash the wood. It will expand and fill in any small gaps. You do need to be careful not to make it TOO tight or you'll never get it out to actually glue it. It's not so much an issue with wood, but I've made mother of pearl inlays so tight that I couldn't get them back out and was forced to just glue them in with thin CA. A little bit of play is not necessarily a bad thing. Even if you have tiny gaps, a little filling with dust and hide glue will make disappear.

The next time you're out somewhere, check out the inlay work in furniture. Go into a music store, and check out the inlays up close. Look closely at the binding. You're going to start finding that even the most expensive instruments and furniture have a surprising number of flaws in them that are only perceptible when you're looking for them. I'm not suggesting that you shouldn't strive for perfection, but maybe you're being too hard on yourself.

If I have time, maybe I'll get around to posting something later this weekend on larger inlays and getting a good fit. I'll see if I can get a close up video of what it looks like from my point of view. It's very difficult to find close up videos of people doing inlay work, though you see a lot of before and after :) I'm guessing it's because people don't want to show all the mistakes and warts before they've had a chance to fudge them.

Post a sample of your work here if you can.

[Harvey Pascoe]

Thanks for the tips and encouragement, John. I do need more practice that's for sure. But as you said, you have to wonder if its a good use of your time and the thing that constantly keeps me looking toward carved inlays is that it puts my work a notch above the others. Any inlay that that tapers to fine points, similar to your logo, is tough whereas doing a more or less regular shape is easy. A simple example is a crescent moon, carving those fine points is tough. Also difficult are fair sweeping curves which must be accurate or it not only throws the whole design off, but leaves big gaps. I've done quite a bit of filling, I've even used artists paints to color filled gaps, but whatever I do I cannot completely hide the fix, but then maybe I'm the only one who sees it. Nay, my wife who is my QC expert, will find it every time.

The only samples of my work that I could post are those done with double bevel inlays on the scroll saw. They are far better than anything we could do by carving, EXCEPT when it comes to fine points which is where that method really falls down. You can't make a 180 or reversing turn without leaving a small hole at every sharp turn.

[Harvey Pascoe]

Here's a practice piece I just did, cutting the inlay on a scroll saw with table tilted 8 degrees putting a reverse bevel on the inlay piece which is hard rosewood. The recess in cherry was cut using a beveled knife and the Dremel, so the sides are also slightly beveled. I did not bring the router bit to the line but used the beveled side of the knife to outline the recess. Then I put glue in the recess, placed the inlay over the recess, put a piece of hard wood over that then whacked it into place with an 8lb hammer, doing a forced fit that minimizes inaccuracy. Inlay size is 1.25", no filling done. The result is passable.

Obviously one cannot do that with anything that is brittle and likely to break, like mother of pearl. This method only works with a hard inlay into soft wood, or vice versa. Note that the fine points of the moon are perfect but once again it is the sweeping curves that are not. This was a first attempt but with practice I think it could be perfected.

A technique that helps getting those fine points is, again, the beveled knife, cutting first the finish side of the outline, then veeing it out on the inside. That way your outline is a tapered groove and this will help getting the router bit to the line but not over it. Or, you can just go up to the groove, then use the knife to clean it up to the line. Actually, I employed both methods where one or the other worked best.

[John Coloccia]

That's nice work, Harvey. There's always room for improvement, but that's very nice. I have a hard time believing that if you went over that with some sand paper to fill it with sanding dust, and then put a drop of glue, that anyone would ever find it. I prefer epoxy or hot hide glue for such things. The hide glue is really my favorite because it seems to be the least noticeable to my eye, especially if a piece is to be stained.

You're right, though...the long, graceful curves are the hardest things to do...at least they are for me.

What size mills are you using? My smallest one at the moment goes down to 1/32", but even that is a little grabby and anyhow, it's too big. I just picked up some really tiny diamond burrs...one of them come to a sharp point. I didn't bother to use it on the headstock because it really doesn't matter...any little filling will completely disappear because the whole thing is black. I have fooled around with it, though, and it does makes things easier, especially on the curves. You can sit there and nibble away until it's perfect.

On e problem with the StewMac base is that it's a little sticky. I'm going to put some of that drawer glide plastic tape on the bottom of mine to slick it up a bit. This is hard enough without fighting your tools :)

[Harvey Pascoe]

Its encouraging that you think that is good and, no, I really haven't seem much work by others first hand, mostly just pictures. The problem with inlays is that they draw attention so people are sure to see mistakes. But, as I like to say, the difference between the master and amateur is the ability to hide one's mistakes.

I have 1/32" bit also but I think the bit size is less of a problem than the top heavy Dremel, but then you are not carving into wood are you? What, plastic? That has to be tougher to do than wood where I can carve a deep outline, then vee it out and that helps keep the bit away from the line.

On the sweeping curves I tried a quarter round gouge, chipping, nibbling away at the line vertically. This was the first time I'd done that but it was far superior to the unweildy router. Gives me very precise control. Don't even get near the line with it. Try that if your material permits it.

Once again I"m reminded that the key to success is the right tool for the job. Its easier and faster than pure skill, Hahaha.

[John Coloccia]

re: plastic
The material is called fiberboard. It's made with wood fibers and then pressed. There must be some sort of binder because it feels kind of like plastic and it seems to melt a little sometimes. It machines pretty well, but it does not work by hand very well. It's almost like trying to carve plastic.

[Harvey Pascoe]

You really got me going on this, John. I tried my hand at double bevel inlays when I bought a scroll saw about 4 years ago, Did some passably good inlays but altogether disappointed. I pick it up again and all of sudden I'm doing what I couldn't do back then, a go-figure moment.

Anyway, here's a practice piece with a marlin inlay done with the scroll saw with pieces of scrap. This piece is rough, no sanding or filling, just glued in place. The lines are near perfect BUT at every sharp turning point the blade makes a small hole which is no problem as they can be filled to invisible with just glue and sandpaper. Notice how fine a point the fish's bill comes to. I was surprised that I could get it this fine without breaking. Your logo would be a snap with this method. The inlay piece and the background piece are taped together, then a hole is drilled thru them to insert the saw blade at the start point, which was the tip of the bill. The table is tilted 8 degrees so that both pieces are beveled when cut and the inlay piece fits perfectly into the background piece with the matching bevels.190975

[Chris Fournier]

Your last crack at it is how I do it Harvey. Also I like to use the omni-directional blades in the scroll saw, no turning just change direction, very tidy. I think that the marlin came out very nicely!

My laser guy lives 200 miles away and it's emailed files and Canada Post to get the job done. Hasn't been a problem yet.

[Harvey Pascoe]

Don't you have a problem with the round blade leaving huge kerfs? The blades I used is so small I have to hold them with tweezers!

[george wilson]

You think you are bad,I inlay my signature into mine. I prefer to use a 1/32" bit in my drill press because I can see what I'm doing better than with a Dremel router. I also use the Stewmac down cutting bits that don't fuzz up the line.

My drill press is an old 1964 Craftsman I bought new,but it has the optional high speed attachment that goes 10,000 rpm,which you really need for cutters that small. The sharp corners get cut out by hand with very narrow chisels I make.

Some time ago,I saw an imported guitar that had a bunch of very thin,tapering elements in its headstock. They were a lot thinner than yours,and there were MANY pieces. They had done it by inlaying a sheet of pearl and masking off the "inlay" and spraying everything black. I thought the best part was that you could not(for the time being) see the outline of the large pearl sheet!!!!:)

I think Gibson also does that now also. Inlaying a block of pearl,and masking the name off. Most likely by silk screening it!!

Anyway,doing this type of difficult inlay is how ambitious young men,and old fools torture themselves. Probably 99.9% of customers out there never look closely at it,or give it any thought,do you think??? Yet,we keep on.

[John Coloccia]

Harry: Actually, the reason I started this thread wasn't about the inlay itself. When I'm trying, I can do that pretty well. It was more how to hold and mark the pieces. I just included the actual inlaying for giggles. The technique you used is a pretty standard Marquetry technique. You can do quite elaborate patterns using that technique. You do some nice work.

[george wilson]

I sometimes glue mine down in LITTLE spots with super glue,trace them GENTLY with a sharp knife,or point,and carefully pop the pieces loose. Then,rout them.

[John Coloccia]

You think you are bad,I inlay my signature into mine. I prefer to use a 1/32" bit in my drill press because I can see what I'm doing better than with a Dremel router. I also use the Stewmac down cutting bits that don't fuzz up the line.

My drill press is an old 1964 Craftsman I bought new,but it has the optional high speed attachment that goes 10,000 rpm,which you really need for cutters that small. The sharp corners get cut out by hand with very narrow chisels I make.

Some time ago,I saw an imported guitar that had a bunch of very thin,tapering elements in its headstock. They were a lot thinner than yours,and there were MANY pieces. They had done it by inlaying a sheet of pearl and masking off the "inlay" and spraying everything black. I thought the best part was that you could not(for the time being) see the outline of the large pearl sheet!!!!:)

I think Gibson also does that now also. Inlaying a block of pearl,and masking the name off. Most likely by silk screening it!!

Well, that's certainly easier than actually cutting anything, isn't it? LOL.

re: drill press work
So you must inlay the headstock veneer before gluing it on, and then just move the veneer around, like a George powered mill table. I'd never thought of that. It sounds like something I'd like to try. Maybe I'll pickup the dremel "drill press" attachment and try it. The more I think about it, the more I think this is a good way to do it. I'd really like to get much better at inlay work. It's always been a weakness in my skill set. Maybe this will help.

I still think that using one of those high speed air turbine powered cutters is going to be the ultimate inlay tool. I'm really surprised that no one's latched on to that yet.

[Bryan Morgan]

Great tutorial! Thanks John! I'm saving this as a PDF

[Dave MacArthur]

Great thread, thanks!
I've only done the task once on a guitar, but I also double-side taped my pieces down. I believe I sprayed them also to mark the cut outs, then used x-acto knife to cut the edges, then a dremel with router base to waste out the material. But all the discussion above with George and Harvey had me remembering how difficult it was to match the mortise to the inlay due to the mill size--I remember being very glad my background wood was solid black!

I just went to look at my job, and it's nowhere near as fine as yours. I also used wood-dust with epoxy to fill any small voids. It worked great on the solid black ebony fretboard, but is more noticeable on the walnut headstock.
191127191126

I actually had planned on inlaying my name in a script inside the "banner" of mother of pearl... in "Feanorian", the elven writing used in Tolkien's Lord of the Rings. Never got around to it, and can't even remember what material I was going to use. I was kind of into Tolkien when I built this thing in my teens heh.

Got me thinking, I used to actually make "downhill skateboards", basically a solid oak plank, and inlay guy's initials in the boards for them. That was one of my high-school woodworking "businesses" I used to do to pay for flight lessons, along with cheese platters and cutting boards. Your post got me thinking I may have one laying around in the shop, so I just went out and found it, waaay back under a pile of balusters.
191124191125
WOW, I remember exactly what your post above is talking about now, the smallest bit I had for my dremel router setup was way too large for my sharp corners... Looking at it now, it's pretty sloppy, and I just filled in with wood-dust filler. The mother of pearl part is actually a "D" in Feanorian, and the rest was supposed to be an Elven leaf (brazilian rosewood) with black ebony lightning bolts coming from it... Apparently this was my "Crest" I made up for myself when I was 16 ;)

Not too bad for a 16 year old, but nowhere near your work! Still, I sold a lot of monogrammed skateboards at $15 a letter, and it did pay for my pilot's license!

Glad to read your excellent post, it brought back a lot of memories, and I'll be referring to it soon--planning on trying my hand at an acoustic in the next year.

[John Coloccia]

I just strung it up tonight, Dave :)

http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac335/jcoloccia/Headstock%20Inlay/15-1.jpg

If you can believe it, the intonations is absolutely dead nuts. I've never had that happen before. Dumb luck as I didn't even check the position of the saddles before installing the bridge.

Chambered alder body, with a carved spruce top. The neck is honduran mahogany, and the fingerboard is bolivian rosewood. It's the first time I'm trying bolivian...I happened to find a particularly nice piece at Woodcraft. I've gone through several prototypes. I think I finally nailed it with this one, although I botched the neck angle. I tried to get cute to see just how close I could get the bridge to the top... uhm, well the action is perfect and the bridge is resting directly ON the top on the treble side. Woops. I still haven't really drop the slots in the bridge yet, so there's plenty of room to play, but I cut this one a bit closer than I'd really intended. I'm still not exactly sure why I ended up off. I did decide to do a 3/16" fingerboard instead of a 1/4". Maybe I didn't take that into account. Anyhow, I got away with it without having to do something dumb like recess the bridge. I think I'll add 1 degree....LOL. All that's left is carving the neck heal and some sanding, and then finish.

By the way, I think your inlays are much neater than mine, not the other way around.

[Harvey Pascoe]

Dave, that ribbon banner looks great but I can see your boo-boo repairs. The great problem is in getting the fill color so that it doesn't stand out. You might want to try artists water colors and a very fine brush. Paint pigment can stand out against the wood after finishing, particularly lacquer, so what I do is use a wash, a watered down color rather than pure pigment, which will stand out even if the color is exact. I do several wash coats over the fill, gradually bringing the color up to matching. Takes like maybe 15 minutes to do it and blend it in. With a bit of experience in mixing colors, the job goes much faster and I end up with invisible fixes.

[Dave MacArthur]

Harvey, thanks, that's a good idea! I think I just made some dust, mixed with epoxy, and hoped, but your way sounds much better.

John, that's a beauty! Glad the bridge worked for you, getting good action so it plays as nice as it looks can be hard--I recall working on those frets and string height for weeks to get rid of a few errant string buzzes. And trust me, if my phone camera were better you'd be able to see that your inlay is nicer! That delicate JC is so thin, really difficult to fit. By the way, I do think that logo and it's particular curves is just fantastic looking, a really nice graphic design. Something to be proud of for sure.

I hope you try that air turbine and see how it works. I don't currently have a fine router for inlay, and was thinking I should get the dremel setup with that base (or whatever the best setup is). I really like inlay, a small piece here and there in a design, so your continued thoughts on what works "the best" are appreciated.

[Harvey Pascoe]

Well, Dave, if you did that strictly by hand, that is pretty darn good. Years ago I played around with Japanese block printing which uses extremely fine carved wood blocks which is not unlike inlay. I ran into people who do inlays like that with ease and it was all because of practice and technique. And it was amazing how fast they could do it. And they had some pretty fine hand tools, many of them self-made. Rather than scrapping the whole piece if they made a mistake, they would inlay a small piece of wood at the point of error and then recarve that.

Whether you use a knife or a Dremel or whatever, learning how to control the implement is the key. I would have to disagree with John that the turbine is going to solve all problems as he still has a rotary tool in hand and he still has to learn how to control it and that, I think, is tougher than controlling carving tools. Even in using the double bevel method with scroll saw, there is still a learning curve requiring lots of practice.

I think the bottom line is, choose a method and then stick with it until you get it perfected. Jumping from one to another will just take up more of your time, result in high expenditure and likely lead to disappointment

[george wilson]

Another thing you can do is to lightly glue the pearl pieces on top of the veneer,and drill a tiny hole through both layers. Then,using a fine jeweler's saw blade(6/0,or so),saw through both layers. Tilting the blade at a slight angle as you saw will cause a snug fit when you finish up,and slip fit the pearl down into the wood. This is called marquetry,and is how I made this inlaid 17th.C. guitar,and some others I never photographed.

The big challenge for me was controlling the weight of the saw. I had to make a saw with a 20" deep throat from yew wood. Using a 6/0 jeweler's saw blade,the slightest twist,and the blade would pop. The saw frame had to be deep enough to encompass the whole body of the guitar. The general public was just a few feet away from my shoulder while I was making this guitar,which took getting used to,as I was in the museum's Musical Instrument Maker's Shop at the time.

This is not pearl,obviously,but the same method applies. Actually,pearl would be easier as it is rigid enough to not fall apart,and a logo would be very small compared to this guitar back. To keep the thin wood veneer from just falling apart,I had glued a layer of vellum type tracing paper onto each layer of veneer. Caslon Vidalon is what was used. It is a very tough,vellum like tracing paper. After the white and brown layers were sawn out,slip fitted together,and glued to a substrate,the tracing paper was sanded off. Without this paper,where the veneer elements were cross grained,they would have broken to pieces and made a helpless mess of pieces. There are other vellum tracing papers available that are also tough and thin. Don't try mylar.

[John Coloccia]

Forget about cutting it out....what I don't understand is how you keep those piece from breaking? Even if I managed to somehow cut it out, it seems like they would break on me just trying to separate them. Egads!

[george wilson]

Read again,John,I did a bunch of editing. The tracing paper kept the whole mess from falling apart. Needless to say,it was a very delicate process.

[Dan Hintz]

Actually, there's a guy I'm working with now and we are experimenting with laser cutting pearl. At a minimum, I may have him laser my headstocks, even if I still cut the MOP by hand. Maybe I'll start ordering the logo too. I don't mind having a machine cut logo. Honestly, I think it's a very poor use of my time. I'm always open to making things better :D
When I first read this thread, all I could think of was "Man, it would be soooo much faster to laser the headstock and pearl... assembly would take 2-3 minutes followed by a sanding!". Glad to know you're heading down that road.

[John Coloccia]

When I first read this thread, all I could think of was "Man, it would be soooo much faster to laser the headstock and pearl... assembly would take 2-3 minutes followed by a sanding!". Glad to know you're heading down that road.

We tried a couple of times but haven't gotten any stellar results yet. The MOP seems to almost want to melt, and the edges are not clean. We need to play with it some more. The industry is still mostly cutting shell with mills or by hand (believe it or not). Still, it's fun and in the mean time I can hone my skills. I always wanted to become good at inlay work, and I'll only get there by doing it, so I don't mind doing it by hand for the time being until we figure it out, or I break down and buy a CNC mill :)

[John Coloccia]

Read again,John,I did a bunch of editing. The tracing paper kept the whole mess from falling apart. Needless to say,it was a very delicate process.

Yes, I just re-read it. Now I understand. It was exactly all those cross grain parts I was thinking about. Just imagining working with it I can just see exactly where everything wants to break! The tracing paper makes sense. Once it's glued down, it's tough as nails. I may try this technique on my next headstock. It will be walnut so this one really does need to fit pretty well. I think I'll try the dremel-in-a-drill press technique like you had mentioned (where you move the veneer, not the tool), and I'll try match sawing it as though I were doing marquetry. I'll even try some 6/0 blades. Smallest I have is 3/0, and I already break those every couple of minutes. I wonder how 6/0 will be? :)

[george wilson]

I had a customer who I used my self made automatic tuning peg lathe to make pegs for. He made lute kits. This was in the late 70's. He showed me a new lute top he was making. It had a very cleanly cut rose. It was a big secret how he was getting the roses cut,but he couldn't help telling me how he was getting them cut by laser. I noticed that the rose was a little peculiar looking,not being quite round. It turned out that the laser was being bounced off a mirror,and entering the lute rose at a slight angle.

I don't know. The use of lasers,cnc,and all that have their place,but for me it just destroys the craft of making something by hand. At the same time,use of technology makes our lives better in many ways, making things cheaper and more available,even keeping us alive longer. Still,when I see things like otherwise nice wooden rules with graduations and names cut by laser,it leaves me cold. A confusing issue for me to deal with,I suppose.

[Dan Hintz]

We tried a couple of times but haven't gotten any stellar results yet. The MOP seems to almost want to melt, and the edges are not clean.
Consider lasering the neck completely but only engraving an outline in the MOP. You can still cut the MOP by hand, but the laser engraved outline will keep it consistent from unit to unit. It should fit right down into the lasered neck.

EDIT: If you need contrast in the MOP for the outline, do a quick spritz of black paint over the top and laser away the outline in the paint.

[John Coloccia]

Consider lasering the neck completely but only engraving an outline in the MOP. You can still cut the MOP by hand, but the laser engraved outline will keep it consistent from unit to unit. It should fit right down into the lasered neck.

EDIT: If you need contrast in the MOP for the outline, do a quick spritz of black paint over the top and laser away the outline in the paint.

Funny you should say that. An idea I had was to have him laser frisket. Then I could just put that on the MOP, and the negative on the headstock, and then just cut to that. The hand cutting is really not that bad. The scribing and aligning of fiddly stuff like this is time consuming and not very fun...it's just tedious. If all I had was a sheet I could put down with some alignment fiducials, and then lift and leave behind a pattern, I would be pretty happy, and this is where we're headed I think.

[Dave MacArthur]

Wow that guitar from George Wilson... just amazing. I spent a night once reading everything I could on your work, George, and every time I see those pics I'm just awed. I know you produced a lot of work that you don't have pictures of, and it's a great loss. Puts me in mind of Jameel Abraham's work (think I got that name right), both are great art.

[raul segura]

Here is a great and simple build and a little less pricy than having your own laser, perhaps just a little more hands on than a CNC etc. etc.. etc...

Pantograph
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PQlDAg971c&feature=related

Adjusting a drawer hing for CNC like work.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPkwIG7og44&feature=related

[raul segura]

wrong post