Wood ID Consensus Request.

[James Combs]

What do you think this wood is? I turned it thinking it was Osage Orange and still do but in my original posting for my No. 33 Osage Orange HF, http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?163724-No.-33-Osage-Orange-HF&highlight=, some contended that it maybe something else such as Mulberry.

So actually I have two questions. What do you think and is Mulberry typically yellow like Osage?

Here are some photos of the bowl blank cutoffs. I have played with the white balance a little in these photos but it seem to only effect the background. On my monitor these appear to me the same as they do in the shop wood in hand. BTW I had thought that there was some difference in grain to Osage Orange that I had previously turned but after a closer look at the cut offs I believe I had a small burl buried in the crotch piece I used.


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190721

These two show the original two colors of the split wood as I saw them at the wood pile. The left section was in direct exposure to the sun, it is a slivery gray with a reddish caste. The right section was face down in the wood pile and it is definitely a rustic red. Both have some natural chatoyancy in their natural state.
190723

This is the same section as above. Note the difference in back ground color to the above yet the wood color is pretty much the same. The back ground difference is my playing with the white balance.
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I include the completed birdhouse here to show the added butternut lower and to point out how yellow it is. It is from a corner of the same blank as above.
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The main reason I am interested in determining for sure what this is, is that I have access to a whole pile of it. Probably a whole tree.

[Mark Hubl]

Could be mulberry, the fresh cut stuff I have seen is very yellow. Also, the bark looks like that on the mulberry in my backyard. Here is a little piece that is pretty yellow. It is mulberry.

The birdhouse finished up nice. You are getting pretty good at those. I enjoy the variety.

P.S. Here is a link to mulberry stuff. Makes it even more confusing with different colors. http://www.hobbithouseinc.com/personal/woodpics/mulberry.htm

[Dennis Ford]

With a piece of Osage and a piece of Mulberry next to each other, it is fairly easy to pick out which one is Osage (if they are both freshly cut). Mulberry is a little more pale and its pores are usually larger. I am guessing yours is Mulberry but would not be certain enough to bet more than one beer on it.

[Reed Gray]

Looking at the top pic, I would guess Black Locust. With the others, I am not sure. Biggest difference I notice with the Mulberry and Osage out here is that the Osage has much tighter/smaller growth rings. Osage does tend to be a bit harder, and darker orange in color. I believe that they are related.

robo hippy

[John Hart]

Sure looks like all the mulberry 'round these parts.

[Gary Max]

James if you stop by the shop I will give you a block of Osage. The sawdust is yellow.

[James Combs]

Folks I am leaning towards OO. Mainly because of these two pages from the http://www.hobbithouseinc.com site.

If you want to take the time, bring this picture and the following up in separate tabs or windows and compare them.

My Bowl
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From Hobbit House: (Scroll to the bottom of each page for finished bowls.)
Mulberry - http://www.hobbithouseinc.com/personal/woodpics/mulberry.htm
Osage Orange - http://www.hobbithouseinc.com/personal/woodpics/osage%20orange.htm

I don't think there is any question when comparing these.

I really appreciate everyone's input into trying to solve my issue:) but I believe the wood is definitely Osage Orange and that is what I will refer to it as for future turnings. In any case right or wrong It is some very dramatic and interesting wood and I am going to stock up on as much as I can store.;) Thanks again folks.

[James Combs]

James if you stop by the shop I will give you a block of Osage. The sawdust is yellow.

Thanks Gary but I am pretty sure that is what I have. The chain saw chips and turning chips that I got were also very yellow. See my previous post for some direct comparison of finished bowls.

I appreciate the offer but I don't think I need any, however, I would love to visit and tour your shop sometime. PM me your address & phone and maybe I can look you up if I get in the neighborhood. If I happen to know that I will be in your neighborhood I will PM you or call or something and let you know that I will be close and if you are open to it maybe I could stop in. You are also invited to tour my shop at anytime. I will PM you my address & phone as well.

[Bob Bergstrom]

The first chuck looks to be Osage. The deep fissures are there, and the burn marks mean some really hard wood. Mulberry is softer and turns easier(especially when dry). If you have a branch try bending it. The Osage indians made their bows from it and could trade a horse for one of them.

[Cody Colston]

James,

I still think it's Mulberry. Both the color and the bark are more like Mulberry than Osage. Also, OO has a thin band of white sap wood which I don't see on the pieces you showed.

I've had this OO over two years. It came from a friend's farm just north of Victoria, Texas. This particular piece of OO has been cut over two years and has been in the shop a few months. Notice that it still hasn't turned russet red on the exposed ends. Mulberry will turn that color in days.

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Here's the fresh-cut face. I bandsawed the short log in two just before taking these pics tonight. Notice the thin band of white sap wood.

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And a pic of the bark for comparison.

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Whichever species you have, it's certainly beautiful wood and I wouldn't fret too much over what it's called.

Hope this helps.

[Tony Joyce]

Not that my opinion matters but, I agree with Reed. The first two pictures definitely look like Locust, bark, grain and color, at least in these parts that's what it looks like.

[Craig Powers]

FWIW, mulberry can have a thin white ban of sapwood as well.

[James Combs]

OK, I give up, I am just going to call it Mulorange... no wait maybe Osageberry... no wait... what the heck I got it, it's "Yellow Wood":cool::D:)

Thanks folks.;)

[Leo Van Der Loo]

OK, I give up, I am just going to call it Mulorange... no wait maybe Osageberry... no wait... what the heck I got it, it's "Yellow Wood":cool::D:)

Thanks folks.;)

James you still have some of the shavings ???, put a handfull in some hot water and see if the water turns a Very Yellow color.

Here are a couple of pictures of both a Osage Orange log that shows the bark color and a picture of some Mulberry logs.

Then also one picture with 4 turned pieces, can you tell which is which for sure by just looking at the picture of the wood???

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[Dan Forman]

Looks like black locust to me, but then I've never seen mulberry or OO. Does the bark look anything like this?

Dan

[James Combs]

This thread has gotten a lot more response then I expected. Although I am perfectly happy with "Yellow Wood":) here is some more info and responses to your comments.


James you still have some of the shavings ???, put a handfull in some hot water and see if the water turns a Very Yellow color.

Here are a couple of pictures of both a Osage Orange log that shows the bark color and a picture of some Mulberry logs.

Then also one picture with 4 turned pieces, can you tell which is which for sure by just looking at the picture of the wood???

Thanks Leo for the photos. To compare what you are showing to what I have I would say that the little bowl in the lower right is closest to the same wood I have and the bark on what I have is closest to the long double piece log you are showing. Here is what the bark on my looks like. I have indicated some camera settings for each photo. BTW Leo I don't have any shavings as I have already cleaned up from the project but I will try your suggestion at the next turning of this wood.

Natural light Cloudy day.
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Flash portrait mode.
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Looks like black locust to me, but then I've never seen mulberry or OO. Does the bark look anything like this?

Dan

Dan as you can see from the above photos the wood is definitely not locust. Here are a few more photos for comparison.
First is with flash second is w/o
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A second log Flash - No Flash
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Another blank cut from the first log.
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[Reed Gray]

You can't call it 'Yellow Wood' because there is an American Yellow Wood tree, and your wood is not that.

I was at a show in Davis, CA a few years back and a young woman was looking at my turnings, and noticed some Osage that I had. She died, and sewed up her own fabric. Well, she bought back a skirt to show me that was died from Osage Orange extract. Had that wonderful Osage color, no mistake.

robo hippy

[Kelvin Burton]

Cody, that looks exactly like the Osage I got from my Uncle's farm just outside of Owensboro, KY. Here's a pic of a bowl I turned from it.

[Leo Van Der Loo]

James what you are showing is Mulberry, The wood color is something that changes a lot in this particular wood, and the same applies to Osage Orange, (just having a log sit for a while the color will change some) also depending where a particular tree grows, the year rings, narrow or wide are more an identification on the site being either a perfect site for the tree or a poor site, orientation, soil and moisture and minerals all play a role, and very often influence the color in a tree as well.

For instance, right here where I live, if I go a few miles east the White Ashes wood is all white and going a bit West and the White Ash wood has large amounts of brown coloration/stain.

I know it is very hard to tell just by looking if you have Mulberry or Osage Orange, I think weight, that is the specific weight of Osage Orange and Mulberry is a good way to ID it, if there is no leafs, branches or bark to go by.
Osage Orange is noticeable heavier than Mulberry, it's a tactile thing, but with some experience you can tell readily, ............. though it seems all wood is getting heavier lately ;-))


Oh BTW Osage was used for the Yellow color that could be extracted from it, especially the root bark but the wood will also give you the yellow color.

[James Combs]

You can't call it 'Yellow Wood' because there is an American Yellow Wood tree, and your wood is not that.

I was at a show in Davis, CA a few years back and a young woman was looking at my turnings, and noticed some Osage that I had. She died, and sewed up her own fabric. Well, she bought back a skirt to show me that was died from Osage Orange extract. Had that wonderful Osage color, no mistake.

robo hippy

My apologies Mr. Reed... err... I mean sorry robo:D I was just trying to be facetious. Certainly didn't mean to step on another trees toes. :eek::D



James what you are showing is Mulberry, The wood color is something that changes a lot in this particular wood, and the same applies to Osage Orange, (just having a log sit for a while the color will change some) also depending where a particular tree grows, the year rings, narrow or wide are more an identification on the site being either a perfect site for the tree or a poor site, orientation, soil and moisture and minerals all play a role, and very often influence the color in a tree as well.

For instance, right here where I live, if I go a few miles east the White Ashes wood is all white and going a bit West and the White Ash wood has large amounts of brown coloration/stain.

I know it is very hard to tell just by looking if you have Mulberry or Osage Orange, I think weight, that is the specific weight of Osage Orange and Mulberry is a good way to ID it, if there is no leafs, branches or bark to go by.
Osage Orange is noticeable heavier than Mulberry, it's a tactile thing, but with some experience you can tell readily, ............. though it seems all wood is getting heavier lately ;-))

Oh BTW Osage was used for the Yellow color that could be extracted from it, especially the root bark but the wood will also give you the yellow color.

Leo thanks again for the great info. I don't think I will be mistaking the two in the future.;)

Thanks to everyone for all your input...even robo.:D:)

[Leo Van Der Loo]

Robo, I'm not being picky, but died and dyed are not the same thing ;-)))))))

But yes Osage has been used for dying cloth and other things, they used the root bark for this mostly apparently.