Festool sander problem

[scott vroom]

I purchased a Festool RS 400 EQ sander several years ago based on the belief that I was getting a high quality German engineeered tool. We use the tool primarly to sand drywall, door jambs, window stools, and other applications where we need to sand into square corners in our remodeling business. The tool performs great with one exception: I'm on my third hook & loop base pad; the hooks eventually stop holding onto the paper. Replacement pads are $25 so not a huge deal but definately not something I expected in a $215 sander. Am I being unrealistic? I haven't had any such problems with my PC and Fein hook and loop sanders.

[Greg Portland]

What happens to the pad? Are the hooks melting, are they getting ground down, or are they clogging? A quick look under a magnifying glass could tell us quite a bit.

[scott vroom]

The hooks are getting worn down...more so on the edges. The pad that was just replaced this week was purchased less than a year ago. The original pad lasted about 2 years. Maybe the drywall dust is contributing to the wear? Maybe I should just shut up, stop complaining and get back to work:rolleyes:

[Scott Coffelt]

I've had mine for years with no issues or need to replace the pad. That said, it sounds as though this unit gets used daily or near there in your business. If this is the case, things were out. I'd be more of the frame of mind that is, this is a great tool as I can replace the pads over and over, yet the main body is like the enigizer bunny. Also, over pressure, you don't need it with these things, can result in more heat which will lead to faster wear out of pads. just a thought.

[Erik Christensen]

Scott

sounds like you are a pro and putting more use on your sander in a week than mine see in a year, so not sure I can comment on your longevity issues. From my perspective - I view the pads as a consumable - that's why they are pretty easy to change out.

if you are running several hundred sheets of paper or more through the sander before the pad gets thrashed I'd say that was within reason - if the pad does not last past a box of 50 then i'd compalin

my 2 cents

[Julian Tracy]

No one has ever accused the Festool pads of being durable. "Stic-fix" is just another word for "Velcro pads that don't last very long".

JT

[Chris Tsutsui]

I agree with the above. Worn out velcro is the number one complaint I've seen posted by professionals, not just on your sander model, but with the rotex and orbitals, etc.

[johnny means]

Yes, you are being unrealistc. Those pads are pretty much consumables, especially on small detail sanders. That's why they're available off the shelf.

[Walt Pater]

I just replaced, for the third time, the pad for my 125. Like you, I use it daily for my business. My Festool dealer says it's the Achilles Heel of Festool, and knocked 20% off the replacement pad so I was out the door for 20 bucks.

So I was without a ROS for an afternoon, since I was on-site and didn't have a backup. There are worse situations. Sanding pads are the only problem I have with any of my Festool tools....everything else has been extremely reliable despite my best attempts to kill them.

[Callan Campbell]

Heavy users seem agree about the velcro pad life, but some sanders are harder on them than others. It could be worse, you could be running the 115 E sander and REALLY see some short pad life if it got too hot. That's the sander that seems to get the most complaints from construction people using it on a daily basis. I have a new pad in my Systainer with the 115E based on their comments as a "just in case" back-up. For all my other Festool Sanders, I'm like everyone else, not a daily user like yourself. As long as you're not killing the sander itself , I agree that it's the cost of doing business with regards to pad wear. Velcro is more fragile than the old center mounted paper[ with the flat backing pad] like on my old Milwaukee 4 1/2" sander. I DID wipe out the Velcro pad on my old Bosch ROS, so it's not just Festool that can kill these plastic pads. :(:(:(

[Tom Ewell]

Heat kills velcro, too much pressure causes excessive heat.
I've burned a few myself, buy extras as backup.

[Rich Engelhardt]

We use the tool primarly to sand drywall, door jambs, window stools, and other applications where we need to sand into square corners in our remodeling business.
Nooooooooooooooooo!!! :O

Don't use it for drywall.
Drywall (dust) is abrasive and will kill off a ROS in short order.( dang it! Edit again - I meant to say any hook and loop, not just a ROS)

PC makes a pole sander/vac unit for drywall if you do enough or use it in habitated areas enough to justify the cost.

Edit: ( I checked online and the Grainger in San Jose looks to be the closest to you. You can probably get hooked up w/a decent price from them on one. They sell for about $425, not including the vac)

I'm a lot simpler & I never power sand joint compound in a habitated setting.
I pick up a B&D 1/3 sheet sander from Wal Mart for ~ $20.00, slap a drywall screen on it and run it till it dies. One usually lasts for 2 whole house remodels.

[Chris Rosenberger]

Nooooooooooooooooo!!! :O

Don't use it for drywall.
Drywall (dust) is abrasive and will kill off a ROS in short order.( dang it! Edit again - I meant to say any hook and loop, not just a ROS)

PC makes a pole sander/vac unit for drywall if you do enough or use it in habitated areas enough to justify the cost.

Edit: ( I checked online and the Grainger in San Jose looks to be the closest to you. You can probably get hooked up w/a decent price from them on one. They sell for about $425, not including the vac)

I'm a lot simpler & I never power sand joint compound in a habitated setting.
I pick up a B&D 1/3 sheet sander from Wal Mart for ~ $20.00, slap a drywall screen on it and run it till it dies. One usually lasts for 2 whole house remodels.

Rich, I have to disagree. I hand sanded drywall for years. I got tired of the room & myself being covered with drywall dust when I was finished. After reading all of the posts on different boards of people using Festool sanders hooked to a vacuum on drywall, I decided to give it a try. I will never hand sand drywall again. I used a Festool DTS 400 sander. When I was finished, the only dust I had to cleanup was a small amount right at the base of the wall. The rest of the room & myself were clean.

Before power sanding the ceiling I was concerned about holding the sander on the ceiling while sanding a 12' X 30' room. What I found was that the suction from the vac helped hold the sander to the ceiling. It was easier then hand sanding. I know sanding drywall is hard on the sander, but it sure makes the job a lot better & easier.

As someone else stated, getting a pad hot is what causes the velcro on a pad to fail. I have been using several Festool sanders since 2007. The only one I have had to replace a pad on is the RAS 115 E. It is very easy to get that pad to hot. I now always keep a new spare pad in the case.

I also keep an old damaged pad in the case. Even though the velcro is melted off of the outer edge of the pad, there are still enough hooks left in the center to hold paper on for those times when I know I will be getting the pad to hot.

Festool does sell a center mount pad for the RAS that uses standard center mount paper that is available at the big box stores. http://www.bobmarinosbesttools.com/fiberfix-sanding-pad-/p/485298/

[Leo Graywacz]

All Velcro pads wear out. The more you change the paper the faster they will wear out. Next time get a couple of them and when they wear out you have them on hand.

[scott vroom]

Thanks for the comments. It sounds like I'm not alone in questioning the Festool velcro pad's useful life. I do use it it my business but not every day. I've probably gone through 50-100 sheets before the latest pad failed. That's not acceptable for a tool that claims to be rugged.

Here's what Festool says about the pad on this model:

"StickFix for Easy Abrasive Changes
Also contributing to the DTS 400's convenience and versatility is the simple, rugged nature of the StickFix hook-and-loop design. This abrasive-attachment method allows for fast and easy abrasive removal whenever you need to change grit types or replace a worn abrasive, and it holds abrasives securely in place while you work. Plus, due to the resilient pad hooks and hard-wearing fabric backing that make up this system's components, you'll experience longer abrasive life and longer pad life."

....and here's a pic from the same Festool ad showing the sander being used in an industrial setting...again inferring it's "rugged" and "longer pad life". I otherwise love the sander and particularly it's unique rectangular shap, which fits my application very nicely. I'll continue to throw money at replacement pads but it does cast a shadow over Festool's reputation IMO.

[Jamie Buxton]

Do you have the sander hooked to a vacuum? The air moving through the pad helps keep the pad cooler, not to speak of saving your lungs.

[Chris Rosenberger]

I'll continue to throw money at replacement pads but it does cast a shadow over Festool's reputation IMO.

As was stated above, velcro failure is not limited to Festool. The only difference is that replacement Festool pads are easy to come by.
That means that a user will change a damaged Festool pad more often. With other brands a user continues to use a damaged pad while wait weeks to get a replacement pad to arrive.
I have been down this road before.

[Jon van der Linden]

Usual problem I get is the velcro material separating from the pad. In any case, yes, these are consumables.

I don't know why people think that the sander is the most expensive part... if you're really using it, it's the sandpaper and pads + the time needed to perform the work. When I bought my last Festool sander, I purchased more in sandpaper than the cost of the sander just to get started!

[scott vroom]

In some ways it's like buying a printer or a shaving razor.....you'll spend far more on ink and razor blades than on the original tool. Festool has little incentive to improve the velcro pad design as long as people like me continue to plop down $25 for replacement pads that probably cost just a few dollars to produce.

[Jon van der Linden]

LOL Scott, just noticed your location, we're neighbors! Must be the air that's killing the pads!

[scott vroom]

Jon, I'm in Mountain View....where R U located?

[Larry Edgerton]

I think it may be the drywall. I use a PC Speeblock for final feathering on drywall and it goes through pads fairly fast too. Its still the best way, and fast, and tools are replacable, time isn't. And, I hate drywall.

I had one Speedblock last about 15 years doing drywall, thats about $7.50 a year, and I hate sanding drywall, so its worth it to me. If I burn't up a sander every house it would still be better than doing it by hand. Did I mention that I hate drywall?

I have a PC pole sander, and they are too rough for final in my own opinion. but what do I know, I hate drywall......

[Jon van der Linden]

Jon, I'm in Mountain View....where R U located?

Mountain View as well!!!

[Mike Christle]

Sanding drywall mud with a power sander? Seriously? What are you guys mudding with, shovels? I've been doing that kind of work for more years than I like to count and have never laid mud on so heavy I needed a power tool to knock it down.

[Rick Fisher]

I have changed the pad on my ETS-150.. Prior to that I had a Bosch and Makita ROS.. neither ever needed replacement.... I think Festool pads are more delicate.. Agree about keeping a spare on hand..

[Chris Rosenberger]

Sanding drywall mud with a power sander? Seriously? What are you guys mudding with, shovels? I've been doing that kind of work for more years than I like to count and have never laid mud on so heavy I needed a power tool to knock it down.

I personally did not use a power sander to knock the mud down, I used a Festool power sander & vac to make drywall sanding dust free.

[russ bransford]

You might want to adjust the vac suction. The suction air is cooling the pad, and heat is detrimental to the velcro. Too much suction will hold the pad to the wall and create heat. So it's a trade-off. Get the suction right, keep the pad moving, etc., etc. But all in all that 25 bucks has saved you a lot of clean up time and it has saved you from breathing a lot dust. So that is a very good trade-off.

[scott vroom]

Sanding drywall mud with a power sander? Seriously? What are you guys mudding with, shovels? I've been doing that kind of work for more years than I like to count and have never laid mud on so heavy I needed a power tool to knock it down.

Mike, we do quite a bit of skim coating in our remodel business. Some customers want to go from textured to smooth plaster-like walls, others simply want to update the texturing. Power sanding greatly reduces the time to smooth the skim coated surface; We'd never consider doing this by hand.