Pneumatic sanders

[Acharya Kumarswami]

Hi. My main orbital sander is the 6" Festool, but it is noisy as all get out. Recently the idea of a pnuematic sander occurred to me and a look at Amazon showed they are not too pricey, less than $200 for what seems to be a top of the line tool. I have plenty of air pressure in the shop, so one of these would work fine for us. Hoping to get some feedback on their performance and noise level. I'm thinking this might be a good second sander for coarser work, assuming it is not random orbit. Thanks. This is for woodworking.

[mickey cassiba]

I'm not sure about the higher grade sanders, but the noise of the little Porter Cables and their ilk is horrible, although they did the work in a lot less time. Finish was no different than an electric. We had half a dozen of them spread out through the various departments, and their pull on the air handler was, to say the least, dramatic, to the point that I had to turn on the back-up compressor when they were all running. The primary was a 30HP screw type compressor. As soon as the sanders started up the rotary would peg out to 100%. YMMV

[Sam Babbage]

I much prefer pneumatic sanders to electric, a Dynabrade or similar is much more comfortable and somewhat quieter than an electric. I also find them much better for certain operations like edge sanding. That said, they really chew through the air. I notice you said "plenty of pressure", it's not the pressure that's the limiting factor it's the volume of air in your tank and how fast it can be replenished. I'm only familiar with Australian electrics, but over here at least, the general rule is not to bother with pneumatics unless you have a three phase compressor.

[michael gates]

I have some Festool sanders and don't use them at all since getting my Dynabrade. You need at least an 80 gallon industrial 5 hp compressor. They are not too loud and leave a perfect finish, light and easy to maneuver and about twice as fast when compared to any electric orbital.

[Callan Campbell]

Having used lots of air powered/pneumatic sanders , of several makes and types, I can only stress the needed air VOLUME output to correctly run one. I'd rather have a 7.5HP or 10HP compressor as a minimum for a shop that's running a single sander on a regular basis than worry that my 5HP 2 stage unit is struggling to keep up with a sander, and is also constantly running more than its duty cycle is rated for. Sanders and grinders are hungry tools when it comes to air power. They aren't being run on an intermittent basis like a drill, impact tool or other same demand tool.
You state your 6" Festool isn't cutting it. Which model do you have? And what is the sanding operation that is causing you frustration? I own multiple Festool sanders, I haven't ever found one that was too noisy for me, but I ALWAYS wear ear protection in the way of ear muffs for any power tool operation, whether it's stationary or a hand help tool.
For air sanders, plus1 on Dynabrade, and also Hutchins. I also like Suhner[Swiss], Atlas-Copco, and others, but they may not offer a matching/comparative model in the standard 5 or 6" diameter rotary sander like Dynabrade and Hutchins.

[David Kumm]

Once you go pnuematic you will never go back. Dynabrade or 3m are great. Used dynbrade can be found on ebay or craigslist. Give a used one a try and then commit since you will find you need several. Get the kinds that accepts dust collection. My 17 cfm compressor is adequate because I have no friends and use intermittently. If you are in a humid climate you will need a dryer, probably hi temp hankison type if you use in the summer or you will spit water through the sander. Don't let that discourage you. It is still the way to go. Dave

[Alan Schaffter]

Not much to add, but I picked up a couple of Dynabrades on Ebay a few years ago, and haven't touched any of my PC ROS since! The Dyabrades are great- there has to be a reason many (most?) furniture factories and autobody shops use them or ones like them. They last but if there is a problem they are easy to disassemble and repair parts are readily available. You can configure a Dynabrade with PSA or H&L pad, and easily convert its dust collection from none- to Self (venturi from discharged air), or External Vac. A cabinetmaker friend and I did side-by-side comparison with his Festool (I don't remember the model #), and the Dynabrade performed as good or better and was easier to hold. I have a 7.5 hp, 175 psi, (CFM?) compressor w/80 gal tank. You need a good water separator or dryer- I didn't drain mine once- water filled the reservoir and it was being pumped down the lines- Dynabrades don't run well on water!! :eek:

I've got air and vac hoses over my assembly table (that's a 6" Dynabrade on the table hooked up and ready to go):

http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/data/1404/medium/PB0500161.JPG

[David Kumm]

Can I borrow the person who cleans your shop? Impressive! Dave

[Dan Hintz]

Can I borrow the person who cleans your shop? Impressive! Dave
Forget that, can I borrow his shop?! I need space like that...

[Acharya Kumarswami]

Thanks for all the great info.
We have a big compressor, 80 gallon tank, so I am going to try out one of the Dynabride types. I have a complete collection of the Festool sandpaper, 8 hole. I only wish I could find a hook and loop air sander that this paper fits to.

[Callan Campbell]

Thanks for all the great info.
We have a big compressor, 80 gallon tank, so I am going to try out one of the Dynabride types. I have a complete collection of the Festool sandpaper, 8 hole. I only wish I could find a hook and loop air sander that this paper fits to.
Don't forget, Festool also makes air sanders. Maybe you can fit one of their air sander pads[under $45] to the Dynabrade sander to allow you to run out the paper selection you already own.
Or, buy the Festool sander in the size you want[they offer 2 different 150mm/6"models] and keep using their abrasives. Air consumption rating is 15CFM at 90 psi, with min 3/8" hose. $350 for the LEX2 150/7mm stroke air sander. Just a thought.

[Alan Schaffter]

Can I borrow the person who cleans your shop? Impressive! Dave

It is always that clean when I take a photo for an article, tip, or contest! I bring in the whole crew to clean it up first. :D The rest of the time, better put on your waders! :eek:

http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/data/500/medium/Santas_Helpers_copy.jpg

[Alan Schaffter]

Don't forget, Festool also makes air sanders. Maybe you can fit one of their air sander pads[under $45] to the Dynabrade sander to allow you to run out the paper selection you already own.
Or, buy the Festool sander in the size you want[they offer 2 different 150mm/6"models] and keep using their abrasives. Air consumption rating is 15CFM at 90 psi, with min 3/8" hose. $350 for the LEX2 150/7mm stroke air sander. Just a thought.

Dynabrade sells 3-1/2", 5" (5 hole), 6" (6 hole), and 8" (8 hole) H&L and PSA backer pads. They also sell 5" & 6" PSA & H&L "Channel-Vac" pads that have a 1/8" deep ring channel connecting the holes. It is designed for production work- quick swaps (no need to align holes) and for use with any abrasive disc hole pattern.

[michael gates]

As I said, I use the Dynabrade, I also have a new festool Pneumatic in the box, They do use a screw on pad, I think you could possibly interchange them but they are the multi air pads.

I use my Dynabrade with my Festool vac and it works great.

[Acharya Kumarswami]

Thanks!
What model of Dynabrade do you use?

[David Kumm]

All of dynabrades models are well made. I have not worn out their lighter duty series yet although the heavier ones aren't all that much more. Keep in mind though that dynabrade tells you not to change the pad sizes. Each sander is engineered for the size it comes with so switching a 5 to a 6 supposedly shortens their life. I have no way knowing whether that is true or just hype but have heard it from people not trying to sell. The 5 inch 3/16 orbit handles 70% of my work, followed by the 6" 3/16 and 5" 3/8 and 3/32 in that order. I have a 3 inch 3/16 but it is harder to control. If you need the smaller size, I would look at the 3/32 orbit. I have only bought one new one and they all still work so I keep my eyes on fleabay. Dave

[Acharya Kumarswami]

Thanks David. I notice that the ones Amazon carries say non-vacuum, which I assume means it does not hook up to a vacuum hose.
Yours do? What's the model number to look for?

[Alan Schaffter]

Thanks David. I notice that the ones Amazon carries say non-vacuum, which I assume means it does not hook up to a vacuum hose.
Yours do? What's the model number to look for?

They are all the same inside. If you can't find a central vac ready (I would forget the self-vac) you can buy the few parts it takes to convert a non-vac over to vac. I did that with one of my units. There is almost too much info on the Dynabrade site and in their catalog, but hang in there and you can find just what you need.

It probably won't work as well as a vac-ready unit, but if you remove the muffler and find the right size adapter you can connect a vac nose to a non-vac Dynabrade, but it won't pickup from the skirt.

One suggestion if you are still on the fence is to buy a cheap knock-off (HF?) and try it out for awhile. If you like it, you will love the real thing.

[Peter Quinn]

Wow, I'm going to swim upstream here and say I prefer my festool electrics for use in my home shop. At work I'm using dynabrade and 3M a lot, and they do a fine job. But they are air hogs, and they scream like a cat caught in a fan belt. Not quite by any standard. Its an aggravating whine that will creep up on you and deafen you after a few hours use. I always use muffs with those. My festools by comparison purr like kittens after a big bowl of milk. The pneumatic sanders are a bit lighter and more maneuverable, and they cut faster too, but fast cutting is not really what I generally need in a ROS. It can be handy for production though. In the "Hey my hand is going numb" test its pretty even, either has the potential to give you carpal tunnel. Where I really like the air sanders is in situations where you will be sanding for 7 hours at a clip. This type of duty cycle will kill most electric ROS quick, even festool, but the pneumatics are built for it, and can easily be rebuilt when the time comes for cheap. Remember to consider the noise your compressor makes in the sound level equation if it is in the shop with you, and if you run a 15CFM tool on a 15CFM compressor on a regular basis, remember to factor a new compressor into the cost, because a 100% duty cycle will pretty much eat your compressor. At one shop where I do side work I have used a Grizzly pneumatic ROS the guy says has been in service for years in a pretty busy one to two man shop, and he prefers it to his dynabrades. Having used the Grizzly I'd say its a pretty close second IMO, and I think the cost was maybe 1/3 that of the dynabrades, so consider those too.

I think my next sander will be one of those new mirka compact electrics. Have you seen those? Size of a pneumatic, very light, compact DC motor, virtually no noise. Expensive but looks like a winner and doesn't need air!

[David Kumm]

Peter, there is no current in the water. Both types have good and bad to them. I have no experience with the festool so I appreciate your comments. Sometimes it is just easier to plug and go rather than crank up the converter, run the compressor, turn on the dryer, and then sand. I had the compressor, dryer, etc and could buy a half dozen used dynabrades for less than a couple of festools. That equation doesn't work for everyone. Now I am thinking that when my old Bosch sander goes..... Dave

[michael gates]

6" supreme, 3/16 orbit. The black one with central vac hook up. Dynabrade also sells a channel pad that may work with your paper.

[John Poole]

consider Mirka brand. I'm installing an air system just for the 3" Mirka sander -- talk about the tail wagging the dog. I tried the 3" sander about 10 years ago at a show and it was a delight to use -- small and compact. Now I see Festool has a 3", but with the bulky electric motor that basically defeats its very essence of being "small".

[Doug Walls]

Not intending to hijack Acharya's thread here!
But for those of you that use the Dynabrade sanders how would they run on a smaller compressor.

I have a 3HP compressor 60 gallon tank 12.5 CFM @ 90 PSI 140 PSI tank pressure. Would this compressor be able to handle a Dynabrade for intermittent work, Say 15 or 20 minutes at a time?

[michael gates]

My Dynabrade is not very loud at all, no worse then my festool, however the compressor is.

[Larry Edgerton]

I use air in the shop, and besides the Dynabrade I have a couple of favorites that work out well for me.

One is a little pistolgrip 3" DA that I bought from the SnapOn man. Great in small places and very controlable.

The other and a great addition for getting auto body flat surfaces is the Hutchins randon orbit air board. Its about 2 1/2" wide and 12" long air board, but a very gentle action.

My hobby is cars/trucks so I accmilated all that stuff for cars. A straight line air file is useful for roughing out flat surfaces in a hurry, but you better practice before use.

Look in auto body catalogs for good prices on air sanders, all wood catalogs are overpriced and don't offer much selection. Check "auto body tool mart".

Larry

[Jeremy Brant]

Not intending to hijack Acharya's thread here!
But for those of you that use the Dynabrade sanders how would they run on a smaller compressor.

I have a 3HP compressor 60 gallon tank 12.5 CFM @ 90 PSI 140 PSI tank pressure. Would this compressor be able to handle a Dynabrade for intermittent work, Say 15 or 20 minutes at a time?

It won't work well. A sander will empty out a 60 gallon tank in less than a couple minutes. If you keep running it, you'll be running straight off the compressor. If your compressor doesn't have an output that exceeds the demand of the sander, you'll face losing pressure (and speed) at the sander. It may be enough to keep it struggling along, but it's not going to keep it at optimal speed. I've thought about doing it more than once, as I have a compressor that puts out 19 cfm at 100psi and is rated for continuous duty. I haven't used a pneumatic, so it's hard for me to say that it operates better. I just see that a 5hp baldor motor is going to use a lot more electricity than my PC 343VS (rated at 3.0 amps) and cause additional wear on my expensive compressor, which is why I haven't done it yet.

[Charles McKinley]

If you just want to tryan air sander to test out the set up before taking a big leap try this:

http://www.harborfreight.com/6-inch-self-vacuuming-air-palm-sander-98895.html

Used it this fall and winter restoring a dump truck. Uses 6 inch hook and loop paper. I just didn't have the extra $$$ for even a used Hutchinson that my friend wanted. He was inpressed with how well it worked.

[Larry Edgerton]

Not intending to hijack Acharya's thread here!
But for those of you that use the Dynabrade sanders how would they run on a smaller compressor.

I have a 3HP compressor 60 gallon tank 12.5 CFM @ 90 PSI 140 PSI tank pressure. Would this compressor be able to handle a Dynabrade for intermittent work, Say 15 or 20 minutes at a time?

Yes it would. Keep in mind as well that the air sander is going to do a lot more work in that 10-15 minutes than an electric will. They are just a whole lot faster, that is why I use them. If they did the same amount of work in the same time I would use electric all things considered.

I am not sure what my compressor puts out, its a 100 gal tank I found in the dump with a two stage pump set at 175psi, running at half speed with a large frame 5 hp motor. Its a Johney Cash sort of affair, but it never runs out of air except when I run a straight line sander. Better sanders seem to use less air, but that could just be me trying to justify the cost.

[Craig Michael]

Thanks for all the great info.
We have a big compressor, 80 gallon tank, so I am going to try out one of the Dynabride types. I have a complete collection of the Festool sandpaper, 8 hole. I only wish I could find a hook and loop air sander that this paper fits to.

It's not the tank size or the HP, it's the CFM's that matter with compressors.

[Doug Walls]

It won't work well. A sander will empty out a 60 gallon tank in less than a couple minutes. If you keep running it, you'll be running straight off the compressor. If your compressor doesn't have an output that exceeds the demand of the sander, you'll face losing pressure (and speed) at the sander. It may be enough to keep it struggling along, but it's not going to keep it at optimal speed.


Yes it would. Keep in mind as well that the air sander is going to do a lot more work in that 10-15 minutes than an electric will. They are just a whole lot faster, that is why I use them.

One yes one no! I guess I'll take that as a maybe!


If you just want to try an air sander to test out the set up before taking a big leap
I have a jitterbug air sander that runs fine! And I can run my die grinder quite awhile before the pressure drops below 90PSI.
I was just wondering if the Dynabrade sanders used more air than others!

[Mark Blatter]

Something I have found in using air sanders, is that once the pressure gets down to 100 psi, the speed is slow enough that it starts leaving scatches that can be easily seen. That is one reason why you need to have significant air pressure and volume. If the sander uses 15 cfm, your compressor needs to put out 18 - 20 cfm so it can outpace the outflow from the sander.

Sanders take large volumes of air.....really large volumes, but I love using them.

[David Kumm]

Maybe is the correct answer. I think it might be a little light. Larger die grinders and dynabrade sanders use alot of air. My 5 hp 80 gal two stage keeps up but runs quite a bit. Too much if I were doing it other than as an old hobbyist with a short attention span. My old kellog american pump might not be at full capacity any more but at 17 cfm and 175 psi it has much more than yours. Dave

[michael gates]

I also have a little makita compressor, if I hook up a die grinder it would keep up for about 1 minute, when I hook up my dynabrade at most 30 seconds before it quits working, My opinion is that it would not work, well not good enough for me. You would spend more time waiting for your compressor to catch up then sanding.

[Chris Kowalski]

I think it will be enough for hobby work. Barely enough, but enough.



Not intending to hijack Acharya's thread here!
But for those of you that use the Dynabrade sanders how would they run on a smaller compressor.

I have a 3HP compressor 60 gallon tank 12.5 CFM @ 90 PSI 140 PSI tank pressure. Would this compressor be able to handle a Dynabrade for intermittent work, Say 15 or 20 minutes at a time?

[Acharya Kumarswami]

Our compressor:
CFM @175 PSI: 15.5 CFM

what's the verdict?

[David Kumm]

You are good, one at a time-80 gal tank. Dave