cabinet saw candidates: need to thin out the pack

[David Dixson]

After deciding on a new jointer and planer, I've decided to also upgrade my tablesaw from a basic hobbyist to a cabinet saw. After looking over the net, I've come up with the following candidates and want to thin out the list:

Harbor Freight 43578-1VGA (Has anyone ever actually bought this?)
General International 50-250M1
Grizzly 1023S
Jet JTAS-10
Bridgewood BW10LTS
Woodtek 114-761
Shop Fox W1677EXT1
Delta 36-831A Unisaw
Delta Industrial 36-732 (731 or 732?)
Sunhill CT250T

My basic objective is to reach the best performance vs. pricepoint possible. I'd like to keep the "as delivered" price as close to $1000.00 as possible (I realize that may be very tough.) while getting as fully featured a cabinet saw as I can. My upper limit will likely be around $1500.00. I think I'll be more than satisifed with 3HP and a Beisemeyer or clone fence. I'm sure there's a lot of thought process I'm not looking at about what to look for in a cabinet saw, so I'd like to get folk's thoughts on what they've felt was important in a cabinet saw. Also, what negative features I may want to avoid or are unnecessary in the cabinet saw. I am interested in future dust collection capabilities and I'm also interested in compatability with aftermarket "widgets."

Can you folks help me get to thinking about what's important in a cabinet saw and what's not?

Thank you,

Dave

[Stephen Dixon]

Dave, I have a Grizzly 1023SL, I believe it is close to, or as good as, any saw you will find in the sub $1200 market. I don't know how it competes with a Delta or a Jet cabinet saw, but it is priced to compete with a Delta or Powermatic contractor saw, and it will blow them away, as would any 3hp cabinet saw, ie. Grizzley, Yorkcraft, Shop Fox, Bridgewood, etc. Steve

[Kirk (KC) Constable]

You won't find many people unhappy owners of their 'first' cabinet saws, because they're almost certainly an improvement over the saw they replaced. I've used Powermatic(s), Unisaw(s), Xacta(s), and a Grizzly 1023ZX. Of these, the only one I wouldn't buy is the Grizzly. When I bought the JET for my shop, I went shopping with money in hand for the Unisaw, but the Woodcraft boys convinced me I'd be just as happy with the JET...and I'd go home with about $300 more in my pocket than I'd planned on. They were right. I see no functional difference between the JET, Delta, and PM. In my opinion, the Grizzly I worked with didn't belong in the same category...but they've made great strides in the past few years, and most buyers seem pleased.

Kinda like buying a car...they'll all get you where you're going. What color do you like, and which way do you want the motor cover door to open?

KC

[Tim Morton]

What is your preference in terms of delivery? Do you want to pick it up in a store, or are you OK buying it based on recomendations and reputaion? Not sure why kirk ruled OUT the grizzly, but he is in the minority, most people LOVE grizzly, I have used one and it would be on my short list with Bridgewood and General. Nut the last 2 may put you over your limit. Have you looked at redmund-machinery.com? They are in GA and have an excellent reputaion. I would get the grizzly if i were you.

[Brian Hale]

Quick, call the folks at Wilke and have them throw that BW10LTS on the truck with the jointer and planer. :D

I'm real pleased with mine. The top is as flat right out of the box as i could measure, no burrs or sharp edges to clean up, 50" rip capacity. It doesn't come with a table and legs for the right side so i made my own and saved $100.

I'm not sure about the other sellers but Wilke does a setup and test run of the machines they sell which greatly reduces any possible problems when your saw is delivered.

Check out this thread where i've posted a couple saws with CI tops removed.
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=13579

Some things to check for:
Magnetic switch (starter). Prevents the saw from restarting after a power failure. IMHO, this is a Must-Have.

A fence that can me picked up and rremoved without having to slide it off the end of the saw. This is more of a personal preferance and it does prevent the use of fence mounted holdowns. If you want an aftermarket fence, most places will give you a slight discount if you order the saw without a fence.

Rip capacity. Most fall into one of two sizes ~30" or ~50". You can gain a few inches from either by redrilling the holes in the rails and shifting the whole setup to the right.

Right or left tilt. Many prefer left (me included) but thats your choice.

Does it come with a motor cover. Metal or plastic?

Any of the saws you listed should perform well and last long enough for your great grandson to use. As we've stated before, good customer support should be high on your What-to-look-for list, followed closely by how close the seller is to where you are.

Good luck with your choice!

Brian :)

[Kirk (KC) Constable]

As I said, most buyers of RECENT Grizzly saws are happy...but that hasn't always been the case. My experience is based on a several year (five or six) old saw. I've posted about that saw many times over the years on several forums, and usually heap praise on the 8" jointer and 20" planer we got at the same time just so folks don't think I'm anti-green. Maybe we got a lemon...

[Bob Johnson2]

A very unprofessional opinion, I have yet to use any of them, awaiting delivery, so this is just buyers homework, too much of it...

It's almost a pick your color kind of thing, I just got done doing the same thing you are and since Griz raised their prices they all can be dropped in the street in front of your house for almost exactly the same $$$. Forget the $1000 you mentioned though, figure $1400 give or take a few. For me it was either the Jet or Uni but only cause go look at those two, the rest I would have had to do on faith (I did see the PM66 and General 350, nice saws if you can swing it). After market add ons seem to be most plentiful for the Uni and Jet, with the Griz gaining. They all have a Bies knockoff if not the real deal available if that's what you want, the newer jet might even be a step up. The $1000 saws couldn't get close to meeting the $1400 units in quality. Suprisingly to me I could find more of the cheaper ones to check out then the better ones. If you're willing to spend 1500, then the difference leaves the 1000 ones out. This should pare down your list some.
If it matters to you the only saw I could find made in the US is the PM with the Delta close behind this year. The General 350/650's are made in Canada, the rest are overseas, somewhere.
No where did I see a $1000 saw measure up to a $1400 one, two different classes. Same can be said of a $1400 measuring up to a $2000 one.

[Stefan Antwarg]

I have no idea or opinion on the saws. But I have a unifence and like it. I haven't figured out a great way to clamp a sacrificial fence to it without it moving slightly. Other than that, it is a great fence. The feature that allows you to slide it toward you has been indispensable to me.

Stefan

[Ken Wright]

came home 2 1/2 years ago for $980. Other than a maintenance routine every 6 months that I've done ... I haven't even had to adjust the fence. Its a great cabinet saw and doubt seriously if putting out another $600 would have enable me do to anything more than this one has done. It'll still balance a nickel even though its home is in the back of a horse stable and has to have a tarp kept over it to protect it.

[Scott Coffelt]

I very, very happy with my 1023S. But given you choice I would think seriously about the General. One heck of a saw. WW Supply you cna get a first buyers discount and get a good deal on the Delta. But again, I am very pleased with my Grizzly.

[Bart Leetch]

Have you considered purchasing a good used cabinet saw.

You can go to my web site by clicking on the bullet next to my name & select my home page & then select 1953 Unisaw at the top of the page.

Beware my web site has pop ups it is the price I pay for a free site.

It take a bit more work but I think the old machines are pretty neat.

I especially like the heavy duty quality's like the cast iron base & thick sidewalls of the case & cast iron control wheels.

Sometimes I wondered if all the work was worth it, but now that I have it in my shop I'd do it all over again.

Hmm I wonder rehab a 10" jointer hmmmmm? Well I'd probably have to re-arrange the shop......

[Bob Reeve]

I say go with a used saw if you have the opportunity. I bought a used Jet saw last year and it was in better than new shape. I paid around a $1,000 for it as I bought a package that included a bunch of extras including a 6" jet jointer. I love the saw.

Save money go used and help someone upgrade to the next level.

[Mark Singer]

About 10 years ago, I bought the Powermatic 66 with the Beismeyer fence. I consider it my "Best friend" in the shop...it is accurate and dependable. I haven't even serviced it. I never feel like I need to upgrade either.

[Joe Spear]

Right now Amazon.com has the left-tilt Jet Xacta saw (#708663MBK) with 50" Xacta fence and micro adjust upgrade and mobile base for $1499.99. It has free shipping, and until Feb. 14 you can get another $25 off, making the total $1474.99. I ordered one two weeks ago, and it's sitting at a truck dock 30 miles from my house, to be delivered on Tuesday. According to all the reviews I've read, it is an excellent choice. Woodworkers Supply in Atlanta has some Delta Unisaws on sale for $1499.99, also with free shipping. It seems that with Grizzly's recent price increases, there's hardly any economic difference between the 1023 and Delta or Jet cabinet saws. In fact, a Grizzly comparably equipped to the Jet I bought would come to a higher price (with shipping) than the Amazon deal. If you don't need the long fence rails, you could probably do even better than $1500 on a Unisaw, Jet, Bridgewood, or Shop Fox (which is also a good one to consider).

[JayStPeter]

Consider the full picture. When I was shopping, I had narrowed it down to the Grizzly, Jet, and Delta (the Bridgewood wasn't around then). I wanted the saw with a 50" Bies style fence, a moble base, DC hookup and motor cover. Most of these things are optional on some saws and included in others. When I went to the WW show, I wound up getting a Unisaw with everything for about $75 more than the Grizzly would've cost to upgrade everything. That was nearly made up for by using the $29 Delta removable splitter instead of ordering a Bies for any of the other saws.
Overall, I'm certain I would be happy with any of the saws. A year later, the Bridgewood may have won. It looks pretty nice. Plus, the show deal I got on the Uni wasn't as good any more.
From what I had heard, I expected to come home with a Jet. But, they had no deal at the show at all (full Amazon price). I guess it depends on the show and who the dealer representing the brand is.

Jay

[David Dixson]

Wow, lots of replies with lots of good information. What do you fellas think of the Jet sale Southern Tool has going right now? Is it ok to ask that?

Thanks,

Dave

[Bob Johnson2]

If your looking at the Jet 10" it can be had $25 cheaper at Amazon, but if it's local go for it. Really the same price just that Amazoin give you a $25 discount on orders over 199.

[Mike Holbrook]

Hi David,

I just returned from the Atlanta Woodworking Show. I was also shopping for a saw. I had set my $ limit at almost the same place as you. I was also favoring the Grzzly 1023. Grizzly was not at the show but Redmond & Son was there with ShopFox (kinda the retail form of Grizzly). I was very impressed with the General saws (they are green too). There were so many other things that I either wanted or needed I just could not quite pull the trigger on the ShopFox/Grizzly. I became convinced that I could cut sheet material easier with a Ez Smart rig and a good table set up. I also wanted some safety features Grip-Tites, GRR-Rippers, Zero Clearance insert, etc.

I ended up buying the General 50-185LM. IMHO this is the best deal on a Table Saw there is. Yes, it is a contractor saw but it has a table, fence and miter gage that equal or surpass most of the cabinet saws in the price range you are shopping in. Although it is an "Internationsl" saw many of the key components are superior to the other table saws and many cabinet saws. I believe the excellent 2 hp motor will handle anything I plan to throw at it. I have always planned to surround my saw with work cabinets, so it will be easy to enclose the exposed part of the saw, improve its stability and give it improved dust removal.

The fact that I could get the General 50-185LM for half the cost of a low end cabinet saw made it possible for me to buy all the other things I need. I talked to quite a number of people that have this saw and they all like it a great deal as I am sure I will. I

[John Miliunas]

I'm with Brian H. on this one. BW10lts is the one I picked after going through much of the same decision making you're now doing. As a few of the guys have said, you'd probably be happy with just about all the ones you mention. (Well, maybe not the HF one! :rolleyes: ) I chose the BW for several reasons, much of which Brian has mentioned in this and his previous thread. It's heavier construction on par with that of the Powermatic and the General. BUT, it's quite a bit less expensive than either of those two. :) One of the absolute greatest reasons I went with BW is because of previous experience with Wilke Machinery. Simply put: Outstanding! 'Tis just my opinion. I'm sure most everyone having a different flavor saw will be able to equally justify their purchasing decision. Good luck! :) :cool:

[Norman Hitt]

As others have said, any on your list will do the job for you (except I wouldn't consider he HF in that same class). Some will do the job a little better/easier with features & options differing from each other. The secret is picking the one that has the most features that fit Your uses, and in your budget, and THEN, Pick the one YOU LIKE best, that's what I did.

Fourteen years ago I went into a very large Tool Store In Louisville, while at The Nat'l VICA contest with my wife. I went in with the intention to buy a Unisaw (even though I didn't like a right tilt saw). To my surprise, they had the Unisaw, and a PM-66 sitting side beside along with several other brands/models of saws. I was all over every one of the Cabinet saws for about three hours, fell in love with the PM-66, (and left tilt as well), and had one shipped to Tx. the next day. I have never regretted my decision, because the saw lived up to my every expectation, but mainly, Because I Bought The one "I" Liked Best.

If at all possible, go look at your choices in person, and do the "Touchy-Feely" thing, and then pick the one "YOU" Like Best. You won't be sorry you did. Good Luck and have fun shopping.

[scott spencer]

The basic Griz 1023 will keep you close to your preferred budget, but by the time your done adding things, the price will creep up. The GI is a good choice IMO....very similar to the Jet and saves another 100-$200. What's the SF going for these days? I wouldn't even consider the HF for this much money.

[Arnie Grammon]

Another vote for considering used......

As Mark Singer suggested, a high quality saw (his is a Powermatic) just doesn't lose value with time. If you want to save tons of money, want to test-run the saw, and possibly get quite a few accessories thrown in the deal, then a good used cabinet may be your best bet.

I'd go with Powermatic or Unisaw/Delta if more than 10 yrs old. If you want something less than 3 years old, than go with the standard Jet, BW, General, Grizz, etc. in addition to the two mentioned above.

I bought a used Jet Cab for $750 three years ago.....came with $300 worth of extras.....sleds, tables, blades, etc., and I have no regrets whatsoever. Remember, it's considered used once it's home and set up, even if you haven't ripped a board yet!

Arnie

[Chris Livingston]

I have the Grizzly G5959 12" 5hp monster and love it. I am replacing the standard fence with a Biesemeyer but even with the standard fence it is a great saw. Plus I can cut through 4" materials without flipping it over.


http://home.comcast.net/~onawa.dbltap/pictures/Saw7.JPG

[Ken Garlock]

Hi David. Here is a late vote from the remote areas :)

I took delivery on my Bridgewood 10LTS this last summer. I bought it for several reasons.

1. Wilke has a good reputation for service, should I need it.

2. It is a heavy saw, in your shop running it will weigh about 480+ lbs.

3. I am told, but have not seen for myself, that Wilke has a 10LTS setting beside a PM-66, (with tops off) for comparison. That is a strong statement about the quality of the 10LTS.

4. Delivered with a lift-gate truck. $210 shipping to north Texas.

Yes, I would buy it again without question. :cool:

[Alan Turner]

Stephan,
I have the Unifence also, and made a sacrificail fence by drilling through the fence and serewing it on. Large hole through the first layer, smaller, screw size hole through the second. I PITA to put on and off, but it is on almost aways.
Alan

[Kent Cori]

Another extremely pleased Griz 1023 owner. Although I have the left tilt SL model, I recommend you go with whatever tilt direction you find comfortable.

[Tom Peterson]

I'll put another vote in for the gray Unisaw. I purchased mine from Woodworker Supply. At the time they had 10% off for first time customers and free liftgate delivery. I do not think you can go wrong with most of the ones on your list. I would echo the point of looking at the woodworking shows. Some vendors have saws sitting in trailers ready for delivery at sometines good prices.

[Clint deal]

1023sl here also and an very satisfies with it. I upgraded from a Jet cotractors saw so I did'nt jump right from a table top to a Grizzly.
I could do anything I needed on the Jet but wanted less vibration and better ability to hold accuracy. the Jet was bad about loosing it's accuracy if tilted.
For the money I like the Grizzly. Fit and finish is excellent, very heavy built under the table-top
clint

[Chris Padilla]

1023Z here (right-tilt). 4 years old and just fine.

One thing you should pay attention to are the people who have acutally used several brands. KC made a good point about that: my TS before the 1023 was my dads old C-man contractors saw (he still has it) and so moving up to almost any cabinet saw was bound to be superduper and amazing.

I have never used a Jet, Delta, Powermatic, General, or Shop Fox so I have no basis for comparison. I have a feeling if I do upgrade (which I'm not sure I'll do yet), it might be to a larger Europeran slider or perhaps the SawStop once its been field-tested for several years.

[DrGrafix]

FWIW, my local Delta dealer quoted me on a new Unisaw, barebones which means it's 3HP, 110v/220v, one cast iron wing, small MDF side table with legs, 30" capacity, and a Unifence. His price is $1299.00 and for $100 more you get a Biesemeyer Fence. This is way over my budget, but I'm looking for a turnkey used cabinet saw, and a local had a Unisaw vintage 1975-1980 asking $1150, and the dealer told me to pass since it was missing motor cover ($65) and louver vent cover (?) and the guy wasn't too flexible. Said I should be looking at around $700 +/- $150 depending on condition. My alternative is to consider a used Jet, General, Grizzly, or Bridgewood... or give serious consideration to a new Craftsman 22124 with the Biesemeyer fence when they go on sale again. Some guys have been able to pick up this saw for $650.

Note that the used Unisaw still hasn't been sold after a month of people looking at it. The guy feels he'll get his price... which is around $1050-$1075. I say maybe not.

Doc

[Kelly C. Hanna]

I love my 1023s....had I not opted for the slider it would have been less than $1k....very nice saw for the money.

[John Scane]

I got a Unisaw x5 version from WW supply 1 year ago and it ran me a little under $1400 with a 50" bies fence delivered. I know it was a deal but maybe they are still out there. It never hurts to ask what they can do for you.

I think if you should get the saw that you want most.....IMO with a Uni, PM or General you will be set for life. Look at it in the long term ...what's a little extra $$ for something that you want.

[David Mills]

Last month I was doing a little shopping at Rockler, and they had a deal going. . . buy one of their snazzy "Rockler Coffee Cups" for $3000.00, and it came with a free delta x5 5hp unisaw AND a delta x5 14" band saw, I just couldn't pass up that deal!

[Bart Leetch]

FWIW, but I'm looking for a turnkey used cabinet saw, and a local had a Unisaw vintage 1975-1980 asking $1150, and the dealer told me to pass since it was missing motor cover ($65) and louver vent cover (?) and the guy wasn't too flexible. Said I should be looking at around $700 +/- $150 depending on condition. Doc

Maybe & maybe not My old 1953 saw purchase price was $250 + Grizzly motor + Classic Shopfox fence + material for tables & router table insert & paint & Grizzly motor cover about $29 & switch final price around $900. You would be getting it all finished & ready to go just purchase the motor cover from Grizzly & paint it to match & mount it. I sometimes wonder just how much latitude we need to give for getting a goooooooooooood deal? Some would say I spent to much on my saw but a new Grizzly with the same size fence costs more & doesn't look a cool as my saw IMO & ain't old arn either besides that I had the fuuuuun of rehabbing my saw & by the time I got done it was like an old friend. Sentimental ain't I?