Tool gloat...been a while

[Mike Cruz]

Well, I haven't scored any nice deals in a while missed a few by a couple minutes, didn't have room in the shop for a deal. But this one came around and I ended up with it. Mind you, when I found it, it wasn't for me... The day before I saw this on CL, I was at an auction with Tony D. and he almost bid on a belt/disc sander combo. Long story short, I warned him away from that one. So, the next day this Powermatic 30 B comes up on CL. I immediately answer with interest, just to get in line (for Tony). I send Tony the link, but he replies that it has too big of a footprint and says he'll pass. I crossed my fingers and prayed the guy wouldn't call me back. While I WANTED it, yes, I don't NEED it...but I'm a sucker for sanders like Van is a sucker for band saws. Again, long story short, I picked this up for $250. Yes it is three phase, but I have two options...Get an FM50 VFD for $150, or swap out the motor with a pretty new single phase 1.5 hp that I have. The first option is quick and simple, but costs money. The second option is basically free, but requires pulling the 1.5 hp motor from a sanding station that I made, putting a 1 hp motor in its place, removing the 1.5 hp 3 phase motor, and installing the 1.5 hp single phase motor. I'm on the fence. Especially because the VFD gives me options that the single phase motor won't, like slower start up and quicker wind down, and slowing down the rpms if the belt or disc is burning the wood. That sort of thing. There is a little red paint on the areas where you are not supposed to "touch" or "use". It came from a school. But that'll come off pretty easily. Also, it has the dust collector in the bottom...for whatever that is worth... Anyway, here she is...

[Kent A Bathurst]

.........I picked this up for $250.......

Mike-with al due respect, you suck.

[gary Zimmel]

Nice addition to the shop Mike. Can't beat when one gets a real good deal...

[Bruce Page]

I second what Kent said.

[Stephen Cherry]

Looks a little flimsy.

[Stephen Cherry]

One more option would be to use a capacitor to get the three phase motor running. You would need a relay to duplicate the start button, and a start capacitor. This would give about 2/3 of the rated power.

[Mike Schuch]

That beauty deserves a VFD!!!!

I have been talking with a guy that has had a lot of luck with the Hong-Kong VFD's on ebay. $100 for a 2hp + $30 delivery. He actually went with 4hp version for his mill.

To bad the previous owner painted it such an ugly color. ;-)

[george wilson]

I have a variable speed motor on my belt GRINDER. It comes in very handy when doing the last little bit of delicate grinding on a metal item like a knife blade. I think the same would apply to being able to slow down a belt sander for wood when you want to make a tiny adjustment on something without the full speed and attendant noise.

I also have die filers for filing metal. The files go in vertically,like a jig saw. Slowing them down has made using them in finishing operations MUCH more pleasant and more accurate.

[johnny means]

Another option would be to sell it to me and double, yes, double your money.;)

[johnny means]

BTW you suck!

[Salem Ganzhorn]

Looks like a great deal! I recently installed a VFD on my drill press. This was my first introduction to 3 phase/VFD technology. I used the FM50. factorymation.com shipped it quickly and it is quite inexpensive. Soft start is nice but variable speed is a pain from the keypad. You could of course solve this with a potentiometer but I have not. I am using the original non-magnetic switch as a low voltage switch to start and stop the motor.

For the price I like the FM50. However it does have the following minor drawbacks:
1) When the motor is off the frequency flashes which is a minor annoyance. I usually remove power from the VFD before I leave my "shop" for young children safety concerns so this isn't so bad.
2) The VFD is a little noisy. It has a high pitched whine.
3) You need to fabricate a bracket to mount the unit.
4) The power connections use a screw to hold them in place and it doesn't provide any other form of strain relief. I plan on building this into the bracket but right now I have it mounted to my drill press with rare earth magnets :).
Salem

[Neil Bosdet]

Dude!you really suck!!!

[Carroll Courtney]

Nice score,I just seen a fence(fence only,no mounting bracket) on ebay go for 180. plus so I say you did good.Congrads---Carroll

[John McClanahan]

That would look nice sitting next to my gold PM 66.:D

I really like the fence on the belt! My Craftsman has no clue such a thing exists.:rolleyes:

John

[Timothy Juvenal]

Mike,
You're never gonna be happy with that 3 phase machine in your shop, not even considering the ugly color & silly little fence.
We've all bought stuff we can't really use, and I feel for ya, so if you'll just drop that sander off at my shop here in SE Penna, I'll send you back home with a nice old plug & play 120V Craftsman sander. I'll even pay for your gas to Penna; you're on your own for the trip back though.

Just doin my bit to help out a fellow woodworker, no need to thank me.

Timothy

[Mike Cruz]

Wow, you are all amazing. I didn't realize how much of pain this would be for me. I might have to take one of you up on the offer to take it off my hands. I certainly don't wan to be inconvenienced with this ugly pieceo of junk. :D

Really, though, thanks for the comments.

I really ought to have said "another" FM50. Thanks for the insight on the unit Salem. I have two, and you are very right about not wanting to have to control the speed with the unit's little buttons. For my lathe, I got a pot, because I knew I would be using the variable speed often. For the sander, I can only imgine that it would be a very once in a while thing. But the point is well substantiated.

From the replies, I'm leaning toward the VFD.

Anyone have any experience with the dust collector on this thing? Is it effective at all? Can I just make an attachment for my DC to the backside of the unit to pull the dust out? There seems to be some sort of tray or something...

[Dan Hintz]

Mike,

I expressed my suggestion for a VFD last time I was in your shop... being able to slow things down for fine work or to prevent scorching the substrate seems like a very good reason to have control.

[Mike Cruz]

Well, yeah, in practice and on paper, I think the VFD is the best way to go. But then that great price of $250 just became an OK price of $400...

Now, if I could figure out an easy way to hook it up to my lathe's VFD...

[Dan Hintz]

Don't forget, that "OK" price is only "OK" if you were looking at comparable machines. Adding speed control to yours puts it well above what that machine normally does. Keep that in mind when you start to believe the deal is only so-so because you added more money to it.

[Chip Lindley]

Nice PM sander Mike! Looks Showroom new! You might as well break down and install an RPC to run all these unwanted 3-phase gloats! They will keep popping up--I swear they will!

[Mike Cruz]

You know, Chip, at this point, I probably might as well have... This will be my 3rd VFD. I'm probably getting pretty close to the cost of a RPC.

I just checked into another option, hoping it would be less expensive...a switch box. That way, all I would have to do is switch between the sander and the lathe...using the one VFD to power both machines (separately). But, unfortunately, with all the parts that are involved, It would end up costing about $120...a new VFD is $145. Doesn't make sense to do the switch thing...

Looks like another VFD is in my future...

[Baxter Smith]

.......
Looks like another VFD is in my future...
Nice sander Mike. The VFD will help you avoid burning when you flatten the bottoms of your bowls.;)

[Dan Hintz]

Nice sander Mike. The VFD will help you avoid burning when you flatten the bottoms of your bowls.;)
You mean teacup saucers? :p

[Paul Johnstone]

Wow, what a great score.
I would do a VFD too, simply because it's a lot less hassle. But I would advice against getting one of the cheap generic
VFDs.. You want one with decent documentation. Also, it seems like some of the generic VFDs have longetivity problems.
I read about one guy that said part of the VFD was underdesigned for the current load and got damaged. He was able to fix it by putting larger copper pieces in but spending a Saturday repairing/troubleshooting a VFD is not my idea of fun.

As far as the DC goes, I would fire it up and try it out. Honestly, these sanders are cool machines and life savers when you
need them, but I don't use my that frequently.. Therefore, I must confess that I never got around to rigging up any DC on mine.. I just wear the mask, as they get used maybe an average of 10 minutes a month.. So, my point is, evaluate how often
you see yourself using this. Of course, improving DC is always a good idea, but there's only so much time in life.

[Mike Cruz]

OK, FINALLY got around to giving this thing the once over look-see. I am second guessing all of the "you sucks" and "great grabs". I have a sneaking suspicion that ya'll knew a little more about this thing than I did. Heck, I think you know more about it than the shop teacher at this school did...

I unbolted, yes unbolted...there is your first clue, the dust collection tray. I was a little curious about the "dust collector" when I read in the manual that it had one... Yeah, about that. It is, a multiple bag filter. Effecient? I'd say so. There was 25 years worth of dust backed up in that machine! I mean, I pulled the dust tray out. It was as loaded and packed as the ashes in the ash tray of my wood stove. I scraped out two more dust pans of dust. Hmmmm, I thought. Let me take off this cover and see what's behind that. That cover is was a housing for the dust filter. There are something like 5 filter bags. The outside of the front bag had a 1/2" layer (no exaggeration) of dust on it. The space between each back was packed with dust. I carefully removed the housing from my shop, took it to my waste pile, and started emptying it...Ugh, unbelievable! I vacuumed out the rest of the dust. Then, while trying to figure things out, decided to take off one of the motor housing covers. YUCK! It will be amazing if this motor still runs. The bearings on it seem to still be good. So, I've got that going for me...which is nice. I'm considering trying to remove the dust collector bags all together and just figuring a way to hook up my DC to it. That would be MUCH simpler that periodically cleaning out the machine. This thing was mad in the mid 80's when I don't think shop DC's were big yet. So, I think PM did a good thing by making a dust collection unit inside the machine. Can you imagine if each machine we had sported it's own DC unit inside. Ugh... Anyway, tomorrow, I may tackle getting the dust out of the motor housing area. And see if there is a way to remove the dust collection unit from the housing access panel. If so, I'll figure on how to rig up a port for my DC hose to attach.

I NEED a shower...

[Kent A Bathurst]

OK - lemme get this straight - you got a great machine from the 80's at about 20% of the price of a new one.........and your problem is you had to clean out the dust.

You posted that info looking for what - sympathy or something? Rottsa Ruck with that one, Mike - you picked the wrong audience, I can tell you that for nothing. :D

[Mike Cruz]

Hehe, no, not looking for sympathy. Two reasons for the post: One, I was absolutely amazed at what I found and felt I needed to share it; and two, I thought I'd try to make ya'll feel better...that it was a mess inside. Guess that second part fell flat... I will have to say that for any of the folks here that are dust fobic (which seems to come up in DC threads), it would have been like looking at poison ivy....:D

And, yeah, it is still a sweet sander, and still well worth it.

[Bob Vallaster]

Salem,
RE: the whine from your VFD. I had a similar noise from one (different brand) I installed on my lathe and remarked it to the fellow who sold the VFD (and would have in$talled it if I had been $o inclined). His recommendation was to dig into the manual for instructions to set another carrier frequency. Check with your vendor's tech service for a probable source of the noise---no need to put up with the racket.

BobV

[Salem Ganzhorn]

Thanks Bob, I will check that out. Since this is my first VFD I had figured they all were a little noisy. Good to hear that I may be able to reduce the noise.
Salem

[Salem Ganzhorn]

I bumped up the carrier frequency and now the only noise is the fan! Awesome! Thanks again Bob!
Salem