How much should i charge???

[Adrian Anguiano]

I have a neighbor that has a slab of stone with their family crest. They wanted a custom frame for it. So i designed something on paper, and made it, stained it and such.

Prob took 12 hrs for everything.

how much do I charge them?? I have no clue where even to start.

[Dave Carteret]

Did you talk price at all with them before beginning? If not, you might be in a difficult position if they assumed you were volunteering (i.e. free) to make something.

That aside, the next question is how good is your friendship? With some of my neighbors, I would probably make it and expect little to nothing in return and maybe hope they gave me what they thought it was worth (like maybe a good bottle of Scotch :) )

[Kurt Rosenzweig]

I guess it matters how close you are to them. Free would be the neighborly thing to do but the cost should be as such as not to put you or them in a bad position. The best thing IMHO would have been to agree on the price before hand. You could always tell them to give you what they think is fair. That way they'll be no hard feelings.

[Adrian Anguiano]

ive probably talked to them about 15 minutes max. Never seen their house, but i do know they are my neighbors and i wave. they see me woodworking all the time so they asked me to do it for them.

yes i should of asked before hand, but being the first time ive done a special request for someone, that thought process of asking beforehand didnt pop into my head. Hence the sticky situation im in. :/

[Gerald Senburn]

Tell them "the materials were $x" and leave it at that. Keep the time in mind for when you need a neighborly favor yourself.

[John R Green]

If you didn't address this issue prior to starting, you're at their mercy.
When you present it to them, they'll ask "How much do I owe you?"
I'd tell them "I have 12 hrs invested in your project, pay me what you think is fair."
The check will tell you what your neighbors think of you and your work.
If it's a fair amount, you'll be happy, if it's not, consider it a payment towards your tuition in the school of hard knocks.
I've earned a PhD there...LOL

[John Towns]

I tend to agree with John. I have done this for neighbors and certain friends. I would tell them how much you have invested in the project for materials and tell them that anything that equals or exceeds that amount would be fine. This, of course, only works if that is what you really want. If they only gave you what the materials cost, would you feel 'cheated'? If so, then give them an amount that gets you out of the 'feeling cheated' zone and more into the 'not too bad' zone.
To give you an example, I had rebuilt a yard ornament wheelbarrow plant holder for a neighbor and I used the approach I described. The neighbor wasn't comfortable so I 'helped' them by giving them a nominal amount...something like $50, and the immediately gave me $100. I acted surprised and pleased, they were delighted and we are still neighborly.

[Brad Shipton]

Since there are not a ton of materials for the project, lets say you had the materials in stock from something else. I can see the effort that went into the planning, building and finishing, so lets also assume a custom shop would also take 12hrs. That means this would have cost at least $600 if the shop time were $50/hr. Since it is a friend, I would start at $300. If they are affluent I would be tempted to start at $400 or $500.

Brad

[Rick Moyer]

I couldn't imagine charging a neighbor (or anyone else for that matter) several hundred dollars for something I didn't negotiate up front. The real question is: why did you do it? If you were just being neighborly then you should expect nothing and be happy with anything. If you were expecting a certain level of compensation then you should ask for that compensation. I guess it depends on what you expect to come from this situation down the road. Do you want to be tight with the neighbor, or do you not want them to expect you to make things for them for free or cheaply; how concerned are you about your relationship with them, etc. Is this a next door neighbor or a little further away? Did they indicate their level of committment to you for the project? Lots of factors to weigh in this IMO.

[Gary Max]

The safest way out--------tell them how many hours you have invested------give it to them and tell them to pay you what they think is fair.
It's the only way to stay out of the frying pan.

[keith ouellette]

I agree with those that say you can't expect much if you didn't talk cash before you started. They may have no idea at all what goes into a project like that and even if you give them the number of hours they may feel it took you to long or not understand its actually worth $60 an hour. They may be completely clueless and say "$700! thats crazy. its just a little piece of wood." Off course we all know better but if they didn't know better up front then its a bad situation. I just did work for a friend and made certain they knew up front what they were paying and what they were getting because I knew they had no idea how much work was involved.

I would tell them you would have normally charged X amount for custom work like this but I wouldn't expect X Amount. If they end up giving X then all the better.

[Tony Bilello]

Since you didn't discuss money up front, it's kind of awkward to do it now, especially with a casual neighbor. If the materials cost more than $30, just ask them to pay for the materials. If anything less than that, just tell them it's a one time gift and leave it at that. You will know better next time.

[johnny means]

It's way to late for you to think about any sort of a fair reward. Make it a gift and consider it tuition for the lesson you just learned.

[Joe Adams]

As many woodworkers have learned the first time they sell something, if you take the price and divide it by the hours invested the result is a figure well below minimum wage. In other words, there is no way to come up with a "fair" price that will adequately compensate you for your time but not fill your neighbor with resentment. Consider this a good opportunity to be a blessing to others and give it freely.

[Dan Hahr]

At the risk of sounding crass, I'll tell you what I'd pay, knowing what it would take to make the same thing. First, I'll explain my reasoning.

It doesn't look like more than 5 bucks worth of materials. That's assuming that it actually is cherry, not poplar or birch stained to look like cherry. If you bought the smallest can of stain, and varnish, you might have another 10 bucks wrapped up in it. If you had to buy a longer board and have a lot left over, you might have spent a little more on the wood. Unless you have some really expensive hardware on the back, there's not much to add other than a 20 cent hanger.

If you really have 12 hours of solid work in the project, and you assign even minimum wages to the project, you are looking at around 84 bucks worth of labor.

You might not like this, but....I think that 20 bucks would be about right. I'd be happier if the wife made me a pie or two. Chalk of the rest of your costs to supplies you will later use. The lessons learned during the process...? Priceless!

Me..? I'd tell them I enjoyed making it, and hope they like it. Wouldn't charge a thing...and would hope that one day, they wanted me to make something that you could justifiably charge a lot of money. Just MHO, though.

Dan

[John Lanciani]

I sort of agree with the others, you're going to have to eat it. Instead of making it an awkward issue, use this as an opportunity to get to know your neighbors. When they ask how much, just suggest to them that you'd love to deliver and install it and at the same time share some drinks of choice and a nice dinner for 4. You may well gain some new friends or a repeat client. At the least you'll get to know more about the people you live near.

In short; you've got lemons, make lemonade.

[Adrian Anguiano]

Thanks for the reccomendations fellow woodworkers.

Since the first time I met him was a week ago, and he lived 10 houses down and I dont know them very well, I think I'm going to charge him just a little over the cost. Tell him I appreciate him trusting me with his family herloom. If he gives me more yipee, if not, then at least i didnt loose money and i did learn some new techniques.

And of course I learned to always talk price BEFORE doing the project :) :) When i put the polyurethane on Ill take a better picture and post it.

[Tom Walz]

I think I would just give it to the neighbor. How they respond will tell you a lot about them.

In my world folks seem to be very careful about reciprocating. It’s kind of funny. You really don’t keep strict track but you do sort of notice when the other guy isn’t doing anything.

On the other hand I seem to be the one that arranges camping and fishing trips. I maybe do more work than the others but it is my choice and I like it.

I also think I would take a bunch of pictures until I got a really good one. Then I would build a couple simpler frames and start a business. Square for so much, oval more and custom shapes by quote. Advertise on ETSY.

I did a Google image search and can’t find anything as elaborate and well done as your work.

[Neil Brooks]

I agree with those who say just give it to them.

They probably have NO idea how to value your time, your expertise, and the materials.

Asking a fair price will probably shock the snot out of them.

Having THEM pay you what THEY think is fair ... will probably insult you.

If you gift it to them, it WILL come back to you. That's how kindness works ... most of the time :)

And ... yeah .... valuable lesson learned for next time ;)

Looks great, by the way !

[Barry Lyndon]

I don't know anything about you Adrian but since you said that you've never charged someone for a piece I'll assume you're not a professional wood worker. If this is a hobby for you and something you do for fun then I don't think you need to think of your time as everyone else is suggesting ($50 or $60/hr.) This is not your profession, you are doing something you enjoy doing. You'd have spent that 12 hours in the shop making something else if you weren't making this. The average professional (in anything) would not be getting up at 8am to head to the shop for an 8 hour day 5 times a week if they weren't getting paid. I think there is a big distinction to be made here between a professional and a hobbyist. It's not the same. Is a hobbyist's time worth nothing? Absolutely not! Depending on the situation, the individual, etc... the hobbyists time could be worth a lot more than a professionals, less, the same, whatever. I'm just saying there is a distinction to be made.

[Adrian Anguiano]

I hear you.. Im a hobbyist that works when i have spare time. Although I hope my work looks professional, im not expecting to get rich. Just hopefully pay for some tools here and there :)

This was just the first time ive done something custom like this. Most of the time I sell things that I make a few of so I know how much I can charge. And usually I make things where the cost of materials and time are pretty equivalent and easy to price. Unlike say a carver who made a chess set out of 3 bucks of scrap wood but spent 100 hrs in carving and has to price it out.

[Brian Tymchak]

Whatever you choose to do, you do NOT want to leave the impression that your time is free going forward. And if the neighbor likes what you've done, he may tell others in the neighborhood about you and that your prices was free. So, you may give the frame away for free, or for cost of materials, but I'd recommend some words along the lines that this is a 1 time special deal because <fill in your best excuse here>....

[Joe Adams]

At the risk of offending you. I'm going to add one more point to consider. Some people can be very critical and this tendency gets worse when they pay for something. Your workmanship on this project is very good but there are always things that can be nitpicked. Just food for thought.

[Lee Schierer]

I would just give it to him. If he asks what he owes you , decline. If he insists on paying, don't argue, tell him you have $X in material and Y hours in labor ( I think 12 hours is a bit much for this project unless there is something I'm not seeing.) Pay me for the materials and something for my time. Then no matter what he gives you, take it, say thanks, stick it in your pocket and don't count it until you get home.

If the friendship grows, then you can discuss payments for future projects. It may turn out that he is a computer technician, master plumber or HVAC specialist and you'll need your computer, plumbing or A/C fixed some time down the road. Paying a favor forward never hurts.

As far as the word getting around the neighborhood that you are a soft touch, don't worry about it, you will always have the option to say no to any and all future requests for freebies or pay jobs.

[Adrian Anguiano]

Heres why it took 12 hours

Drawing Phase
I etched an exact copy of the shield outline that was on his crest onto paper. I then drew several grid squares in a larger format on paper until the right size was made for the crest to show in the opening, but not show any empty spots because the stone is square. Then after making the paper drawing of the inside I then had to make a larger pattern of the exact same thing for the frame. But I couldnt just blow it up on a printer, because its bigger than a sheet of paper. and driving to kinkos would be way to much in V8 Truck Gas. Also i dont have a pantograph. So i had to use a compass and some french curves and get it pretty close. I then only used half of the drawing and cut it in half and copied that side to the other so it would be perfectly symetrical.

Building
Plane, Joint, Crosscut, Rip, drumsand board.
then i had to first cut out a square recess on the board. Which involved plunge routing and some guides. But the tricky part is I had to do that first because doing it after the frame hole was cut, the router would have no support. And i couldnt just make a square cut out. the logo on the slate isnt perfectly center horizontally or vertical. So i had to account where the frame was gonna be, where the slate would have to be positioned to show just the logo in the center, then figure out where to cut the recess. Then had to make a template for the frame. which cutting didnt take too long, but sanding the outside and the inside perfect did take a while. Then cutting it out on the real wood, then flush trim to the jig, then sanding it like crazy.. alot by hand. then routing the profile... and once again lots of sanding.

Finally Finishing. No secrets there.

So thats why it took 12 hrs.

[Shawn Christ]

So thats why it took 12 hrs.

If it makes you feel any better, it would have taken me a lot longer than 12 hours. I'm too much of a perfectionist. The frame looks great and your neighbor should love it.

[Larry Rasmussen]

Not much left unsaid at this point but the initial direction of the thread responses advising you to throw it back on the neighbor to name a price struck me as really inappropriate. Putting them on the spot to judge the value of the item may be quite hard for them and is certainly unkind and unfair. I would not tell them that you spent 12 hours either. Regardless of whether you are charged they will feel you went way further than what was discussed and feel guilty if they don't offer money but mad to be made to feel they have to. If you didn't have the wood on hand I'd charge for materials at most and tell them it was a pleasure to get aquainted. They are probably starting to worry about what the expectation is from your side and wondering if you thought you were doing some big custom job and will charge them a bundle. On the other hand they may have assumed you'd have less than an hour into the whole thing since you offerred to make something without even mentioning the idea of money being exchanged. I've had a few Homer moments in my time, we all have. Good luck.

[Joe Adams]

Please don't keep us in suspense. How did everything work out?

[Adrian Anguiano]

I had some urgent stuff come up this week so I didn't get to put a finish on it. Don't worry, I'll let you know what happens :)

[Dan Hahr]

Larry- well said...

[Adrian Anguiano]

Sorry for the delay my faithful helpers.

I went to his house and delivered it, and he thought I said I WOULD charge him 20$ an hour and id spent 13hours on it. when i really said WOULDNT! That made him happy :)

I told him what I did, and the time I spent, and told him I really appreciated it, and wanted to still be friends afterwards :) so I said "is $50 reasonable with you????" Before I could take a breath he said "how bout $100." I told him I want you to be comfortable and not pressured and once again still want to be friends, and he insisted and liked what he saw. So I said ill accept with much thanks.

All in all it turned out to be a great transaction... thank the Lord. And we chatted for at least an hour, and think we will get to be even better neighbors now. Thanks everyone for your help.

[scott vroom]

Sounds like a win-win....nicely handled. I'll bet he comes to you for future projects, too.