Subaru Purchase Complete

[Pat Germain]

You may recall I sought advice several few weeks ago about whether to buy a Subaru with onboard GPS or just use a portable unit. Based on comments from SMC folks, Mrs. Patrick and I selected a higher trim line Legacy, but without the sunroof and GPS. Thanks again for the information. We will soon start shopping for a portable GPS. Other notable trivia:

- I flashed my USAA card at the dealer and got an amazing price. I brought a Consumer Reports printout with me, but didn't even need to negotiate. For USAA members, I highly recommend asking for a discount when buying a new car. It could likely save you some serious dough. Sure, I might have been able to negotiate a similar price on my own, but it was sure nice not having to bother.

- I opted for the 0.9% financing Subaru offered. It's not 0%, but it's pretty close!

- My insurance agent informed me rates for the brand new Subaru will be very similar to the rates I pay for the 1997 Jeep Cherokee Mrs. Patrick had been driving. He said I save money because the Legacy is not an SUV, it's all-wheel-drive, and it has outstanding safety ratings. I expect other AWD cars, like the Ford Taurus, would get similar discounts. This is a significant cost-of-ownership factor which I had not considered.

- I wasn't sure whether to opt for the 4-cylinder Legacy, or the 6-cylinder model. I drove both. The 6-cylinder did indeed have more power, but not in an earth-shattering way. And the 4-cylinder has an SVT tranny, which I liked. So I opted for the 4-cylinder. Of course, it also gets better MPG than the 6-cylinder. (Although the SVT has been available for a short time in the US, Subaru has been offering it for several more years in Japan. So, I'm not really buying "new technology".)

-Here in Colorado, Subarus are as common as pine trees. Getting maintenance performed on a Subaru is easy-peasy.

Best of all, Mrs. Patrick is very happy with her new ride. And when Momma is happy, everyone's happy. :)

[Bob Turkovich]

[QUOTE=Pat Germain;1675507]- I wasn't sure whether to opt for the 4-cylinder Legacy, or the 6-cylinder model. I drove both. The 6-cylinder did indeed have more power, but not in an earth-shattering way. And the 4-cylinder has an SVT tranny, which I liked. So I opted for the 4-cylinder. Of course, it also gets better MPG than the 6-cylinder. (Although the SVT has been available for a short time in the US, Subaru has been offering it for several more years in Japan. So, I'm not really buying "new technology".)

-I think you mean CVT (continuously variable transmission), Pat. Think of a transmission with an infinite number of gear ratio steps between the highest and lowest gear ratios. That technology has been around for years - first launched in Europe (can't remember who) and then on Ford, Chrysler, Honda & Nissan in the US in the mid 2000's. (I think Subaru was first in the US, though.) I hope you keep continuing to like it - from a "feel" perspective, people either love it or grow to absolutely hate it.

[Pat Germain]

Ah, of course, you are right, Bob. It's "CVT".

Interestingly, I can put the trans in manual mode and shift through six gears using paddles on the steering wheel. While I personally prefer a good-ole stick on the floor, I do like having the paddle shift option; especially with six gears. I expect they are actually six, pre-determined positions of the pulleys inside the trans. But it's still kinda cool.

[Bill Cunningham]

Ah, of course, you are right, Bob. It's "CVT".

Interestingly, I can put the trans in manual mode and shift through six gears using paddles on the steering wheel. While I personally prefer a good-ole stick on the floor, I do like having the paddle shift option; especially with six gears. I expect they are actually six, pre-determined positions of the pulleys inside the trans. But it's still kinda cool.

We had a Subaru w/ a cvt. The CVT started howling shortly after the warranty expired. The Dealer we bought it from basically said gee, tough luck! We went to another dealer (who also handled Hondas) in another town and he went to bat for us with Subaru. Because the inside damage started unnoticed before the warranty expired, Subaru (very reluctantly) Agreed to replace the transmission if I paid the labor. (transmission $5k/labor $800) We left the car, and the dealer gave us a brand new Ford Neon to drive while the car was in the shop. The car was used primarily for business, so the miles got racked up pretty quick. Subaru basically screwed around trying to get the dealer to replace 1/2 the transmission (the dealer said Honda would have replaced the whole thing immediately) every time they stuck it in, it would not work. THREE MONTHS LATER, they finally decided to replace the entire transmission and we had our car back. We dropped off the neon with 12,000 Klm on it, and the dealer never blinked. He was under the impression that Subaru, like Honda, would reimburse for the loaner car. They would not! The dealer (part of the massive hongkong group), told us he had never had a manufacturer screw a customer around this bad before. Less than 6 months later, they dropped Subaru and took on Volvo in it's place. Would I buy another Subaru? Not on a bet!

[Pat Germain]

Sorry you had a bad experience, Bob. Subaru is pretty much the official Colorado state car. Everyone I talked to has been very happy with their Subaru. Of course, there are going to be problems with any car brand.

If you had a Neon, it was a Chrysler product. If it was a Ford, it would be another model. :)

[Jeff Monson]

Of course, there are going to be problems with any car brand.


Amen to that Pat, congrats on the new car. Subaru makes a great car IMO

[Pat Germain]

Amen to that Pat, congrats on the new car. Subaru makes a great car IMO

Thanks, Jeff. I'm wondering if Bill's experience was actually with a Saturn and not a Subaru. Saturn offered the CVT before Subaru.

[Mike Archambeau]

[QUOTE=Pat Germain;1675507]- I wasn't sure whether to opt for the 4-cylinder Legacy, or the 6-cylinder model. I drove both. The 6-cylinder did indeed have more power, but not in an earth-shattering way. And the 4-cylinder has an SVT tranny, which I liked. So I opted for the 4-cylinder. Of course, it also gets better MPG than the 6-cylinder. (Although the SVT has been available for a short time in the US, Subaru has been offering it for several more years in Japan. So, I'm not really buying "new technology".)

-I think you mean CVT (continuously variable transmission), Pat. Think of a transmission with an infinite number of gear ratio steps between the highest and lowest gear ratios. That technology has been around for years - first launched in Europe (can't remember who) and then on Ford, Chrysler, Honda & Nissan in the US in the mid 2000's. (I think Subaru was first in the US, though.) I hope you keep continuing to like it - from a "feel" perspective, people either love it or grow to absolutely hate it.


CVT was the way most snowmobiles put the power down way back in 1970. I think that means it is no longer "new technology"

[Pat Germain]

[QUOTE=Bob Turkovich;1675800]


CVT was the way most snowmobiles put the power down way back in 1970. I think that means it is no longer "new technology"

Good point, Mike. When I was a kid, a friend of mine had a "Tote Goat" which was also equipped with CVT technology.

[Charles Goodnight]

Don't know when my 10+ year old Subaru outback will die, but it has worked like a champ, and aside from a tiny bit of rust on one quarter panel and a few scratches and dings it really looks as good as new.

[Bill Cunningham]

Thanks, Jeff. I'm wondering if Bill's experience was actually with a Saturn and not a Subaru. Saturn offered the CVT before Subaru.

Nope it was a Subaru.. I know every Manuf. can make a dud, but other than that, ALL the problems were with Subaru Canada. Maybe Subaru U.S.A has more ethics, and a better sense of customer satisfaction. We even had the original Subaru dealer tell us he would void our warranty (I wanted a replacement burned out head light two months after we bought the car) if we didn't get all our oil changes done by a 'authorized Subaru dealer'. Which of course, he does not has the legal authority to do. He came to this conclusion after scanning our service record to see if we were 'worthy' of the light bulb..

[Angela micinski]

Cvt transmissions are good for light torque applications but they struggle to stay together under heavy load. It really is like a snowmobile.

[Steve Griffin]

Never in a million years would I expect any car company to provide any repair service after the warrantee expires, but remarkably that was Bills experience.

I know when I replaced the engine in a Pontiac which was only 5K over warrantee it never occurred to me to try to get anything from Pontiac. I'll have to remember the "damage started unnoticed while under warrantee" line.

Enjoy the new car! -Steve

[Bill Cunningham]

A transmission does not just fall apart one day in normal use. The damage over a long period of time was un noticed until the howling started shortly after the dial read 100k 'kilometers, not miles' . I appreciated the transmission, and had no problem paying for the labour part, but THREE MONTHS in the shop while they screwed the dealer around on what they promised is not acceptable.. 100,000 kilometers is 62 thousand miles.. Do you really expect a transmission to utterly fail in 62,000 miles? My current Hyundai has almost 300,000 on it and it runs like a clock..

[Steve Griffin]

Bill that does sound like a bad situation for all parties.

But frankly, with anything mechanical a failure can occur just about at any mileage. Believe me, we were not pleased replace the engine in a Pontiac Vibe with 65K. The main reason we bought that car was for the highly rated toyota engine! But hey, stuff happens. The second engine in the Vibe has maybe 100K on it and it works perfectly. (The funny thing is when we bought it I said--"heck for the money saved over a subaru, we could buy a new engine at still come out ahead")

The fact you got any service at all after warrantee is a tribute, not a insult to the Subaru brand in my view. Since we are looking at Suburus as a possible replacement, after hearing about your bad experience I'll definitely look carefully at the service statistics.

-Steve

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Pat,

Congrats on the new drive. Subarus are very numerous around here too.

[Greg Portland]

Do you really expect a transmission to utterly fail in 62,000 miles? Yes, but only in my mid-90s Chrysler minivan.

[Bill Cunningham]

Subaru in the U.S., is probably quite a bit different than Subaru Canada. We are not nearly as large a market, here, and as a result we suffer lower quality warranties and service on many imports. I have driven Hyundais for the last few years, and have had zero problems (my current one will have 250k klm on it when I deal it in this summer), but even with them, the Canadian warranty is quite a bit different from the U.S.. If the U.S. warranty is 10 years and 100k miles, then ours is 6 years, and 100k klm. If you ask a dealer why? they generally say something like "well Canada is further north and the winters are harsher" When you point out the flaw in their logic, that Southern Ontario is further south than 30% of the U.S. they become silent. Canadian consumers as a whole, are just bigger patsies than U.S. consumers and we constantly have to settle for less because of it.. I'm Glad U.S. consumers are getting good service and quality from Subaru. I wish it were the same in Canada..

[Pat Germain]

Subaru in the U.S., is probably quite a bit different than Subaru Canada. We are not nearly as large a market, here, and as a result we suffer lower quality warranties and service on many imports. I have driven Hyundais for the last few years, and have had zero problems (my current one will have 250k klm on it when I deal it in this summer), but even with them, the Canadian warranty is quite a bit different from the U.S.. If the U.S. warranty is 10 years and 100k miles, then ours is 6 years, and 100k klm. If you ask a dealer why? they generally say something like "well Canada is further north and the winters are harsher" When you point out the flaw in their logic, that Southern Ontario is further south than 30% of the U.S. they become silent. Canadian consumers as a whole, are just bigger patsies than U.S. consumers and we constantly have to settle for less because of it.. I'm Glad U.S. consumers are getting good service and quality from Subaru. I wish it were the same in Canada..

That is indeed a lousy situation, Bill. I am glad to hear the Hyundai is treating you well. A friend of mine has the top-of-the-line Hyundai sport sedan and he loves it.

Indeed, the CVT is for light torque applications. That's why it's not available on the 6-cylinder Subarus or the turbo-charged 4-cylinder cars. Mrs. Patrick's Subaru is by no means a torque monster. But it gets up and goes just fine and gets good fule mileage doing so. Being an all wheel drive car, the MPG is going to suffer a little compared to similar sedans. But the MPG is certainly much better than the Jeep Cherokee she's been driving for fourteen years. :)

[Bill Cunningham]

That is indeed a lousy situation, Bill. I am glad to hear the Hyundai is treating you well. A friend of mine has the top-of-the-line Hyundai sport sedan and he loves it.

Indeed, the CVT is for light torque applications. That's why it's not available on the 6-cylinder Subarus or the turbo-charged 4-cylinder cars. Mrs. Patrick's Subaru is by no means a torque monster. But it gets up and goes just fine and gets good fule mileage doing so. Being an all wheel drive car, the MPG is going to suffer a little compared to similar sedans. But the MPG is certainly much better than the Jeep Cherokee she's been driving for fourteen years. :)

The one thing I did find strange with the CVT (I don't know if it's still the same) is it handles hills just like a standard transmission.. I.E. if you take your foot off the brake with the shift in 'drive' it will roll backwards just like taking your foot off the brake while the clutch is down.. So, if your at the lights, on a steep hill, the light turns green, you take your foot off the brake, the car will roll backwards until you hit the gas. If your not used to this, it may roll into the car behind you.. I got used to balancing the gas with gravity, Just like someone learning to drive standard ;-)

[Douglas Clark]

Pat. Congrats on your new purchase. My FIL in Montana has a Subaru that he is determined to reach 300,000 miles with. He's got over 250,000 on it, original trannie and engine and I think he may get there... Of course, he also believes that because he has a Subaru that he can muscle through blizzards that even the 18-wheelers pull over in; perhaps if he sticks with that philosophy he may not get there before it ends up in a ditch. But hey, it's worked for him so far!

[Pat Germain]

The one thing I did find strange with the CVT (I don't know if it's still the same) is it handles hills just like a standard transmission.. I.E. if you take your foot off the brake with the shift in 'drive' it will roll backwards just like taking your foot off the brake while the clutch is down.. So, if your at the lights, on a steep hill, the light turns green, you take your foot off the brake, the car will roll backwards until you hit the gas. If your not used to this, it may roll into the car behind you.. I got used to balancing the gas with gravity, Just like someone learning to drive standard ;-)

Mrs. Patrick's Subaru has a "Hill Hold" brake. I expect it's for this very reason.

[Pat Germain]

Pat. Congrats on your new purchase. My FIL in Montana has a Subaru that he is determined to reach 300,000 miles with. He's got over 250,000 on it, original trannie and engine and I think he may get there... Of course, he also believes that because he has a Subaru that he can muscle through blizzards that even the 18-wheelers pull over in; perhaps if he sticks with that philosophy he may not get there before it ends up in a ditch. But hey, it's worked for him so far!

I lived in Arizona when the off-road 4X4 craze hit in the late 70's. The running gag was no matter how big and bad your truck was, and no matter how far out into the howling wilderness you went, if you looked a little further, you'd see a VW bug. Based on what I've seen in Colorado, Subarus are the new VW bugs.