Norm's biscuit joiner observation...

[David Hostetler]

So I was watching some of the episodes of NYW I have on DVR still, and one of them was a kitchen cabinet build that Norm was doing, of course he was using his biscuit joiner. I had never noticed this before, but in this episode he had no dust collection hooked up to the joiner, not even a dust bag, he just let the dust fly, and didn't bother with a respirator...

Now he was working with Poplar, which I don't find in any of the wood toxicity charts that I know of. So I was wondering about that...

Isn't it still a bad idea to be breathing the fines even though they may not be "toxic"? Or was what Norm was doing not as bad as it looked?

[Rod Sheridan]

David, it's like any other respirable particle, it all comes down to how many and how often.

Since I don't feel lucky, I always collect the fine dust at the source............Regards, Rod.

P.S. Of course I also use a guard on my table saw so I definitley don't feel as lucky as Norm.

[David Hostetler]

Kind of what I thought. I *almost* understand Norm operating the saw without the guard "for demonstration purposes", which is risky enough, but blowing sawdust willy nilly like that just struck me as a BAD thing to show people... It looked like a Porter Cable biscuit joiner, and the dust port was on the left side of the tool. Now I figure the bag was removed in order to get clear shots of the operation, but all that sawdust certainly obscured the shot...

[Chris Fournier]

Honestly if the blade is sharp and it is a with the grain plunge cut, there's little dust. In addition my joiner has a directional exhaust which sends the chips down to the floor. In these cuts the dust port plugs up quite a bit so you pick your poison.

Now if the cut was endgrain or sheetgoods then I'd have the bag or vacuum on the joiner every time. As it always is, its a question of what are your tolerances?

[John McClanahan]

In the early episodes, I don't think the workshop had a dust collector. Then, when they got one, it was connected to the stationary tools only, for a while.

John

[Jeff Duncan]

If you can have your vac attachment set up so that it's not in the way then it's great to use with a biscuit joiner. Sometimes that's not practical so just let it fly. Dust bags are worthless, not even sure why they include them as they clog fairly quickly.

Here's my feeling, (rant), Norm does these shows and goes out of his way to try to show safe operations. But he's got thousands of guys watching and inevitably there's going to be a couple who rewind and watch segments over again to catch things they consider unsafe. Guess what...it's woodworking, little of it's safe. People who find Norm unsafe should probably not consider woodworking for a hobby. Maybe something like stamp collecting would be a better choice;)

Most of us have brains in our heads and they should be used to decide how to work in a manner that's safe. If you see something you think is unsafe....don't do it. I personally, (like many small shop owners), do things that are not always safe, things I wouldn't let employees do. And there are things I've seen other guys do that I wouldn't attempt! It comes down to staying within your own comfort level and skill set.

OK rant over.....
good luck,
JeffD

[Michael MacDonald]

I think the handheld router is the worst... he uses that a lot as well in the old shows, and I haven't noticed him using a dust mask. That always makes me cringe.

[Mike Schuch]

The old boy is just tougher and made out of heartier stock than us!

Actually it is just a sign of the time, we have gotten more safety conscious over the years. I really miss "The New Yankee Workshop!" none of the new woodworking shows are aimed at woodworkers with some experience.

[Don Jarvie]

You have to consider how much you may use the biscuit joiner. If its for a few slots then the dust created it probably isn't a big deal. If you have to cut a bunch of slots maybe a mask could be worthwhile.

[Dave Lehnert]

There is risk to anything. You are not suppose to not go outdoors without sun block on, Diet, eat right and exercise but how many do that all the time?

[Neil Brooks]

I'm fairly sure that Norm's now-famous plaid shirts were MADE BY Wynn Environmental, out of that spun-bond, or Nano stuff .... ;)

[Rod Sheridan]

I'm fairly sure that Norm's now-famous plaid shirts were MADE BY Wynn Environmental, out of that spun-bond, or Nano stuff .... ;)


LOL.......Priceless, thanks for that.........Regards, Rod.

[Eric McCune]

I seem to remember reading that Norm had Sinus surgery years ago.

[Will Overton]

While I use dust collection as often as possible, it's not something I'm overly concerned about when I don't. It does make cleanup at the end of the day easier. Aside from sanders dust collection is a 'relatively' new feature of hand held tools. My first PC biscuit joiner had no method of collecting dust.

Dust collection is a good thing, but it's importance might be overblown for the home workshop - IMHO.

[Harry Hagan]

Inhaled particulates have a cumulative effect on your health.

It doesn’t matter whether you’re eight, thirty-eight, or eighty-eight when they enter your body—they’re along for the ride, for the rest of your life. A little here, a little there, it all adds up. The smallest particles, the ones you can’t even see, are the worst because they lodge the deepest when you inhale.

Do yourself a favor and use a quality respirator and hearing protection. Occasional loud noises do have a cumulative detrimental effect on your hearing.

[Chip Lindley]

To each their own! But if you are really PARANOID about wood dust, go for it with one of THESE:

188895

[Neil Brooks]

I think TREND makes one like that, but ... with their own brand identity, instead of that silly "NASA" stuff, which -- frankly -- is for posers, anyway ;)

[Michael MacDonald]

I have been thinking of a micro-sized Thien baffle for each nostril. Each inhale would first circle the baffle before the fines drop out into my mustache.

[Rod Sheridan]

I have been thinking of a micro-sized Thien baffle for each nostril. Each inhale would first circle the baffle before the fines drop out into my mustache.

I tried that, stupid thing can't tell coke from sawdust........Rod.

[Neil Brooks]

I tried that, stupid thing can't tell coke from sawdust........Rod.

Rod, you MAY be thinking about the [Charlie] SHEEN baffle.

Slightly different.

[Joe Angrisani]

The Sheen Baffle. You pretty funny, Neil..... :D

[Rod Sheridan]

Rod, you MAY be thinking about the [Charlie] SHEEN baffle.

Slightly different.

Yeah, that's it!........LOL..............Rod.

[Harry Hagan]

"Where ignorance is bliss, 'tis folly to be wise."
- - Thomas Gray

[Will Overton]

"Where ignorance is bliss, 'tis folly to be wise."
- - Thomas Gray

If you swallow your own saliva in small amounts over long periods of time, you will die!

[Danny Hamsley]

I have a big fan in the back wall of my shop that I use to pull a good flow of air through the shop to keep the dust moving away from me and to the outside. Of course that is easier to do in Georgia than in some other parts of the great white North!

My Freud biscuit jointer only plugs up after about 4 slots when using the dust bag, and it only takes a couple of minutes to clean it out. So, use it for one minute and only spend two minutes cleaning it out........Obviously, I am being sarcastic. I hate the dust bag.

[Eric McCune]

Dust collection is a good thing, but it's importance might be overblown for the home workshop - IMHO.

I wonder how many of these home shops have contaminated the house since most are attached. If the house has fine dust contamination, it's easy to have significant exposure. Hard to see how the importance is overblown.

[Paul Ryan]

If you can have your vac attachment set up so that it's not in the way then it's great to use with a biscuit joiner. Sometimes that's not practical so just let it fly. Dust bags are worthless, not even sure why they include them as they clog fairly quickly.

Here's my feeling, (rant), Norm does these shows and goes out of his way to try to show safe operations. But he's got thousands of guys watching and inevitably there's going to be a couple who rewind and watch segments over again to catch things they consider unsafe. Guess what...it's woodworking, little of it's safe. People who find Norm unsafe should probably not consider woodworking for a hobby. Maybe something like stamp collecting would be a better choice;)

Most of us have brains in our heads and they should be used to decide how to work in a manner that's safe. If you see something you think is unsafe....don't do it. I personally, (like many small shop owners), do things that are not always safe, things I wouldn't let employees do. And there are things I've seen other guys do that I wouldn't attempt! It comes down to staying within your own comfort level and skill set.

OK rant over.....
good luck,
JeffD

I couldn't have said it any better. If you feel better using dust collection when you use your biscuit cutter so be it. But Norm was pretty saftey conscious. I get so sick of you have to use the guard for this, you have to wear ear protection, you have to capture every dust particle. Our society is becoming a bunch of "pansies". Safety conscious is going over board. Pretty soon, it wont be recommended to leave the house.

Most of us rode in cars that were very very unsafe considering what we drive today, and as children were rarely in a child seat. Dont get me started about lawsuits. For some reason there is no such thing as an accident anymore, someone always has to be at fault.

I am not saying you are wrong for trying to be safe. If it makes you feel better, go for it, you will may live longer than me. But I refuse to worry about things as simple as chips from a jointer, planer, hand plane. I am more worried about sanding dust, dust from saws, and large amounts of really fine dust.

On second thought I dont know if I ever saw Norm use the guard on his table saw. I sure think that is more dangerous than not using proper dust collection on a biscuit jointer.

[Will Overton]

I wonder how many of these home shops have contaminated the house since most are attached. If the house has fine dust contamination, it's easy to have significant exposure. Hard to see how the importance is overblown.

Growing up having dust in the house wasn't equated with the house being contaminated ... it was just dusty ... Saturday morning Mom dusted. Mom did die when she was 90, I guess she didn't dust enough. :rolleyes:

[Neil Brooks]

Growing up having dust in the house wasn't equated with the house being contaminated ... it was just dusty ... Saturday morning Mom dusted. Mom did die when she was 90, I guess she didn't dust enough. :rolleyes:

I presume you're not talking about sawdust -- dust from various species of wood, some of which is known to be toxic.

Similarly, I presume that Eric McCune WAS talking about sawdust.

[Will Overton]

I presume you're not talking about sawdust -- dust from various species of wood, some of which is known to be toxic.

Similarly, I presume that Eric McCune WAS talking about sawdust.

Yeah I was. Dad's shop was in the basement. There's nothing wrong with dust collection, it's just that folks today feel they need to be protected from every day life. I'd rather just concentrate on enjoying every day. News Flash - nobody gets out alive! :)

[Neil Brooks]

News Flash - nobody gets out alive! :)

I forget who I'm quoting, but ... somebody once said ... "I'm planning to live forever, and -- as of right now -- I'm off to a pretty good start !"

:)

[Will Overton]

I forget who I'm quoting, but ... somebody once said ... "I'm planning to live forever, and -- as of right now -- I'm off to a pretty good start !"

:)


:) http://www.runemasterstudios.com/graemlins/images/thumbsup.gif :)

[Chris Parks]

Everyone is on about dust, I just want less work so collecting all the chips etc that comes off the saw/jointer etc saves me work and if it collects the fine dust, which it does, along the way I am on a winner. I am sick of cleaning up the workshop every time I make something, the floor is relatively easy, it is the fine dust that is the problem.

[Eric McCune]

Growing up having dust in the house wasn't equated with the house being contaminated ... it was just dusty ... Saturday morning Mom dusted. Mom did die when she was 90, I guess she didn't dust enough. :rolleyes:

Good to know that household dust is the same has wood dust. I guess that means that all wood dust is the same.