Card Scraper Buying Advice Needed

[Steve Friedman]

I have never used a card scraper, but am starting to see how useful it could be. My question is what to buy.

My thoughts were:

1. Lee Valley set (with holder, burnisher, and jointer)
2. Cabinet scraper (not a scraping plane)
3. A card, file, and burnisher (if so, what brand?)
4. Something else?

Thanks

[Kent A Bathurst]

Heh-heh-heh........welcome to the dark side of the force..........

The key to using a card scraper is not using the card scraper, it's prepping + burnishing. Get it right, and its easy to use with good results. Get it wrong, and you'll be frustrated. I use them a lot for things big and small.

Brands - who knows - any of the good names are probably equivalent. They aren't expensive. I have a couple Lee Valley, and more than a couple Lie-Nielsen. All seem OK to me. One of the LN is thinner stock, which is nice. I also have the LV holder, which is also nice when there is a larger area I'm going after - thumbs tire + burn. You don't need a bunch like I have, its just that I'd prefer to burnish a half dozen all at once, and then move them from the "good to go" slots to the "need to rework" slots in the rack, and do them all at once. Plus, one I designated as a junker for stripping glue-out, finish/paint blobs, etc. I actual don't burnish that per se - just clean it up with a few swipes on 400g sandpaper on a piece of glass - not looking for accuracy there.

Never used the tricked-up accessory tools - I have a good file, and a good-enough burnisher - I think it is a Crown, but lotsa folks use a large diameter drill bit, or just a hunka hardened steel rod from a place like Grainger, etc. Also - I spent the time to make a "true 90" block of wood - maybe 2" x 2" x 8" - that has a rabbet on the bottom - so I can lay the file on the bench, sit the block on top of it, and use it for alignment to get a proper 90 on the edge. [BTW - its sister block has a 45 for cabinet scraper and scraper plane].

Once you "get" the burnishing, it is very simple to do. I ended up taking a 2-3 hour evening class @ Highland on this topic, and that cleared it all up for me. I was [a] using way too much pressure [b] too many passes and [c] too steep an angle. I just clamp them in the face vice and go to town. Under 15 minutes to reburnish a half-dozen.

[Steve Friedman]

Thanks Kent. When do you use the cabinet scraper instead of a card scraper?

[David Weaver]

Any round burnisher that has a decent polish (you can do that yourself, though, if you find you nick one).

Any mill bastard file that's flat

and stones that don't mind a card scraper.

I never use a card scraper holder. I have four or five square card scrapers. If I have to scrape a large panel, I use two of them at a time so if one gets warm, I put it down and pick up another one. Economizes the burr rolling process, too.

But in the end, getting and making better smoothing planes has almost eliminated scraping.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

I've used a variety of manufacturers card scrapers. I think my first ones came from Stewart Macdonald. I've since ended up with ones from Lee Valley, Lie Nielsen, Crown, and a handful I made in small sizes/odd shapes out of scrap spring steel or saw blades. I can't really tell much of a difference between any of them, other than some are thinner and flex easier. Some of them hold a burr longer. Those are the ones that I've "jointed" recently, rather than just try and roll a new burr out.

Any decently flat fine file will work. You want the edges of the card nice and square. Learn to hold it well, or make or buy a jig. Whatever you find works for you. When I first started, I was overly picky, and used the guide. Now, I just file by eye using a wider file, and then drawfile with a fine file. For the rough stuff, this is good enough. A few swipes on the sides of my stone and then roll the burr.

The jigs aren't noticably faster, in my opinion, than turning a hook with a rod. Most of them have a hard time (if they function at all) on any sort of scraper with a curved edge, particularly if it's concave. I though I needed the guide when I first started using scrapers, but after practicing three or four times, I figured it out by hand. Pretty much any metal hard enough that the scraper isn't marking it up will work for turning the burr.

The scraper holders are really nice for anytime you're using one a lot.

I agree with what Kent said - I made the same mistakes when I was starting. Particularly in the amount of pressure. I was pushing down way to hard and couldn't figure it out. You're not moving that much metal, it doesn't take much force.

I think the key to them is having your first actual turned edge, so you get shavings, and not dusty chips. Once you figure out what it's actually supposed to be, then it makes sense. This is the hard part, particularly when you're learning on your own.

[glenn bradley]

I have an inexpensive set, rectangle, gooseneck and convex/concave. Probably Rockler; about $10 for the set. I use the rectangle most, then the goose and very occasionally the convex/concave. I squared up a piece of 1-1/2" by 10" long piece of ash and ripped a kerf in it that friction fit a bastard mill file giving me a square reference surface. I cut the head off a fouled Forstner bit and stuck a piece of dowel on the end for a handle; presto, a burnisher. I have been using these same items for several years with good success. I added a Lee Valley super thing milled scraper on a whim awhile back and it has proved to be useful for delicate stuff (http://www.leevalley.com/EN/home/PrintPage.aspx?p=49548&ap=1). One doo-dad that I did receive as a gift is the Lee Valley variable burnisher (http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=32633&cat=1,310,41070&ap=1). Sometimes I use it, sometimes I don't.

[Zach England]

I use a piece of an old saw plate. I just cut it with an angle grinder in the shape I wanted and prepared the edge as usual.

[Chris Fournier]

Don't bother with the holder gadget! Get the array of scrapers that LV sells in a combination pkg. A burnisher is nice but the shank of a drill bit will work okay. A mill file in a vise and you're ready to go! I use old 1 1/2" bandsaw blades and dead saws to make my own profile scrapers in the shop. The card scraper has got to be the best bang for the buck tool that a woodworker can purchase.

[john brenton]

card scrapers are so cheap that making one out of a saw plate is something I've only done out of necessity. The Bahco ones are "supposedly" the best...or at least according to several catalogs. I think I have a two cherries and a crown, and a host of homemade profiles from saw plates.

I think Crown has a cheap HSS burnisher, but I got by on a long spade bit shank I had lying around...the "pro" burnisher was pure vanity.

To me, I think card scrapers are the most potentially dangerous tools in the hand tool shop...if you were to put too much pressure while burnishing and slip you would cut the bejeeeeezus out of your wrist. Ok, maybe the "most dangerous" label was a little exaggerated, but every time I burnish I think about it. In fact, I now burnish with the card laying flat on the table just for that reason.

[Bruce Haugen]

What everyone else said...

My favorite is one I got from Patrick Leach many years ago, maybe .02" thick made of 1095 steel. It takes a great burr and is wonderful for scraping finishes. I also have a cheapo set that works well, and a nice set from LV. Also 4-5 made for special purposes out of rusty saw plate that I cut up. They work just as well as the more expensive ones. Look at any of the YouTube videos on the subject. Any visual guidance will help at this point. A sharp scraper works exceptionally well at taking the nibs off a finish between coats.

[lowell holmes]

I have both Lee Valley and Lie Nielsen card scrapers (as well as some of unknown origin).

I use the LN scrapers exclusively.

I have tools from both companies and I respect both companies equally.

[robert raess]

I have some sheffield card steel.I'm still in the middle of my learning curve,having mixed results and some success. No huge curls.I feel like i'm doing everything right, and started blaming the steel and the burnisher[an old knife burnisher].Now that i read all the feedback i see that steel can probably be checked off the list.I'm sure it's just a matter of nuance on my part..so close, maybe an angle change..? I do hardwood floors [27 yrs.] and use a paint scraper[for the corners], and can sharpen it and pull up curls in seconds.Having mixed results with the card scraper, i tried using a 6" used jointer blade..touched it up, made a handle for it, and immediately was pulling up shaving...liked all the input so far.. rob

[Steve Friedman]

Thanks for all the great feedback. I think I'm convinced to bypass the store-bought jigs and try to joint and burnish "old-school."


I have both Lee Valley and Lie Nielsen card scrapers (as well as some of unknown origin).

I use the LN scrapers exclusively.

I have tools from both companies and I respect both companies equally.

Any particular reason for preferring the LN scrapers? I contribute to the financial success of both companies on a regular basis and love them both - but understand preferring one over the other for a particular tool. Just wonder why in this case.

Steve

[lowell holmes]

I prefer a thinner scraper that is easier to bend when I am scraping. The LV scrapers are a bit thicker. I use a LV burnisher on my LN scrapers.

I'm sure there are some in this forum that have opposite preferences to mine.

I have planes from both companies.

[Kent A Bathurst]

Thanks Kent. When do you use the cabinet scraper instead of a card scraper?


Rougher work to do. I use the cards for finer stuff - final touch type of thing.

[Kent A Bathurst]

..........Don't bother with the holder gadget! ...........The card scraper has got to be the best bang for the buck tool that a woodworker can purchase.

[A] - that's what I thought for the longest time, and I don't use the gadget often. But - when I've got 15 minutes of card scraping to do, my wussie hands + thumbs just plain wear out. And, on hard-hard-hard-woods [QSWO] it don't take very many pushes to get to a pretty hot temp. I've gotten good enough with my glue-up panels that all I usually need on the joints is a card scraper - but it can be a bit tiring. [B] Yep. Definitely in agreement on that point.

[Chris Fournier]

[A] - that's what I thought for the longest time, and I don't use the gadget often. But - when I've got 15 minutes of card scraping to do, my wussie hands + thumbs just plain wear out. And, on hard-hard-hard-woods [QSWO] it don't take very many pushes to get to a pretty hot temp. I've gotten good enough with my glue-up panels that all I usually need on the joints is a card scraper - but it can be a bit tiring. [B] Yep. Definitely in agreement on that point.

I guess that it's the delicious smell of burnin' thumbs that drives me from the gadget. I will tape my thumbs if I'm staring down a real session of scraping.

[Kent A Bathurst]

I guess that it's the delicious smell of burnin' thumbs that drives me from the gadget. I will tape my thumbs if I'm staring down a real session of scraping.


You're a better man than me, Gunga Din................:D

Regards, Rudyard

[Arvind Srivaths]

It's been ten years, but in case you are still on this list, can you please tell me if the TC paint scrapers like: https://www.diy.com/departments/harris-2-heavy-duty-scraper/36385_BQ.prd
can be used as a card scraper? After all the TC will probably stay sharp longer and if a hook is needed, a diamond plate can be used to create one (perhaps with a jig).

Thanks,
Arvind

[Kevin Jenness]

Don't bother with a carbide scraper. Just get a decent steel scraper like this one https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop/tools/hand-tools/scrapers/32671-bahco-scraper?item=97K5002&gclid=Cj0KCQiA6NOPBhCPARIsAHAy2zBWhh81CvtXKiqcazDm rif7L3bKM20WgpvDkB39T89npLXuT-O3sDoaAhAAEALw_wcB and learn to tune it up.

[Jim Koepke]

Arvind, that is a completely different kind of scraper than what is used in woodworking. The handled scrapers are used more for scraping paint to prep a surface before painting.

Of all my scrapers, my favorite is one made from a piece of old saw blade. It is a little heavier than most of the items sold as card scrapers.

A hook (burr) on a card scraper is usually turned with a burnishing rod. Folks have used everything from a screwdriver to a drill bit for a burnisher.

Here is a scratch awl and burnisher made for one of my grandsons:

472613

These were made of hardened High Speed Steel drill stock.

You might want to start a new post on this subject to get advise from others on this. My scraper skills are lacking. It has only been in the last year or so that my attempts at using a scraper have had decent results.

jtk

[Luke Dupont]

Historically, a piece of an old saw plate and a chisel for a burnisher, and you've got yourself a card scraper.
At the end of the day, they're all just thin sheets of steel. The real trick is learning to prepare and "sharpen" them. That's something you'll have to learn no matter what you buy.

[chuck van dyck]

This set is great. https://toolsforworkingwood.com/store/item/PZ-30189

Lots of handy shapes and attractive pricing. Also supporting a great store.

The one thing a lot of people glance over is polishing the faces. Its a cutting edge just like a chisel or plane. Take the time to polish the faces and edge before burnishing and you’ll fall in love with this tool that a lot of people give up on.

If you’re just fairing stuff out you can use the burr straight from the file.

[Von Bickley]

I sharpened and practiced many times before I could get curls but it was very rewarding when I did. There are many you- tube videos on card scrapers. The type of wood also has a lot to do with the curls you get.
472727

[Edward Weber]

I have one of those holders and it sits quietly in a drawer and doesn't bother anyone.
I have many brands, none that really stand out too much, although the Sandvik (Bacho) do seem to hold a burr pretty well.

[Arvind Srivaths]

I tried a steel scraper from two cherries (0.6 mm) and one from Arno ( French Spring Steel Super Hard 1 mm) and a hss plane blade. Flattened the sides and edge (back and bevel for plane blade) and burnished a hook with a carbide rod. Got shavings but the hook doesn't last on the steel scrapers. Hss is decent but I thought why not try TC. Can someone explain why it won't work - after all Robert was able to get shavings.

[Arvind Srivaths]

Thanks Jim. I think I will create a new post - I want to see if someone can explain why TC will/won't work. After all if the geometry is the same and material is harder, it should work.

[Edward Weber]

Thanks Jim. I think I will create a new post - I want to see if someone can explain why TC will/won't work. After all if the geometry is the same and material is harder, it should work.

Short answer is this,
Tungsten Carbide Tungsten carbide is an alloy of tungsten and carbon, made by heating tungsten powder (https://www.thomasnet.com/products/tungsten-powder-62464904-1.html) with carbon and hydrogen at 1,400 - 1,600°C (2,550 - 2,900°F). The resulting alloy is 2-3 times as rigid as steel and has a compressive strength surpassing all known melted, cast, and forged metals. It is highly resistant to deformation and keeps its stability at both extreme cold and hot temperatures.

Normal card (cabinet) scrapers are made of flat steel and a hook is drawn out by using a burnisher which work hardens the edge as it's formed. How long a burr lasts depends on the properties of the steel and how well it was formed.
This process can not be done on TC, due to it's physical properties. You may be able to sharpen a TC scraper with a diamond plate but you can not draw out a hook on it.

Two different types of scraping