Potential bowl?

[Aaron Buys]

I received this blank from a friend who isn't a turner. Its about 12 inches across and 2.5 inches think. She says she thinks its spalted sugar maple and that it belonged to her father who isn't well. She asked me to turn a bowl or platter out of it for her to give to him before he dies (no pressure =). Although I have several blanks ready to turn for bowls I have yet to do one and I'm hesitant to use the blank period in fear of wrecking it. I'm currently planning on turning a few bowls using other wood to try to get some experience before I attempt it but I have a few questions I'm hoping you more experienced turners can help me address.

1: This blank appears to be extremely old and very dry. What are the chances it just blows apart on me? High risk? Low risk?

2: As you can see from the pictures the whole blank has warped slightly with the grain. Should this be planed flat on the bottom side to attach a faceplate to?

3: Is turning a spalted blank something a novice turner should do (even if I do a few bowls with standard wood first?

I'm wading into new water here with bowls but I'd really like to do my friend a favor while not destroying the piece which seems to have sentimental value. Any advice you can give would be much appreciated.

[Steve Vaughan]

You're right. Not a bit of pressure there. You've got a beautiful bowl right there just waiting to show itself. I'd drill a 5/16" hole in the middle on one side and turn the bottom/outside shape and a tenon, then turn the inside. It's beautiful and what a cool gift to make for someone!

[Wally Dickerman]

Looks like a great chunk of wood. To old and too dry? No such thing. I've turned bowls from 100 year old hand hewn timbers from an old barn. Wonderful wood. If the wood is solid, the fact that it has some spalting won't affect the turning.

I think that since this piece is to be given as a gift, you would be wise to get a little bowl turning experience before tackling this one. I strongly suggest that you take a lesson or two on bowl turning if you can. You'll be glad you did. Join a turning club or if you have a local Woodcraft store, check out their turning classes. Before you turn this piece, get some advice on good form for a bowl.

You won't want to use a faceplate attached directly to the wood except to mount it on the top to prepare the bottom to accept a glue block. Don't let anybody tell you that you have to have a chuck to turn a bowl. You don't. If you decide to use a glue block and need help, just ask. I've turned lots of pieces using a glue block. It's a good way to go.

[Steve Schlumpf]

I think that since this piece is to be given as a gift, you would be wise to get a little bowl turning experience before tackling this one. I strongly suggest that you take a lesson or two on bowl turning if you can. You'll be glad you did. Join a turning club or if you have a local Woodcraft store, check out their turning classes. Before you turn this piece, get some advice on good form for a bowl.

Strongly agree with everything Wally just said! Get some lessons first! You don't state where in Michigan you are located. If it's not to far of a drive for you - I would be happy to show you how to turn a bowl.

[David E Keller]

1. Low Risk
2. No need to plane it and lots of ways to hold it
3. No reason you can't turn a spalted piece
4. Go to Steve's house and learn from a really good turner

Best wishes on completing the project!

[Aaron Buys]

Thanks for all the replies. I've been turning for a few years but haven't gotten into bowls too much due to lack of a proper stand. My current setup (until today) didn't have the weight needed to keep my lathe from dancing across the floor. I think I have Bill Grumbine's video memorized word for word so I'm hoping that will help my lack of experience. I'm in Grand Rapids by the way =).

Those of you that suggested a glued block...are you recommending I mount it in the chuck that way so I don't loose as much material turning a tenon on such a small piece?

[Wally Dickerman]

You didn't mention whether or not you have a 4-jaw scroll chuck. The glue block can be used with a faceplate or after cutting a tenon, with chuck. Or, another option, if you do have a chuck, you can cut a tenon on the blank itself. Way back in the dark ages, we screwed a faceplate directly to the blank. That meant screw holes on the bottom of the bowl which had to be dealt with in various ways.

If you opt to use glue blocks there are some "musts". Both surfaces must true and flat. You're making a glue joint. I use med CA glue. Make sure that you use enough glue. I want to see squeezout. A glue block does't work well on end grain wood. Not a good glue joint. Unless you make a tenon to go inside the glue block.

[Jim Burr]

Follow all the above, but...everyone said it's ok to turn spalt, but no one the precautions that must be observed. Spalt is fungus/mold growing in the wood. Although sometimes dead, not all of them are and there is research that shows dead spores can be just as hazardous as live ones. Some spoes can live for thousands of years. Turning releases these spores into the atmosphere...specifically the atmosphere in your shop. Sanding does the same thing. A dust mask is useless for this purpose. If you do not have a powered respirator or a professionally fitted N95…don’t turn it until you do.

[Pete Jordan]

Hey Aaron,

I am in Mason. I have next week off so if you want to come over I would be glad to help.

Pete

[Aaron Buys]

You didn't mention whether or not you have a 4-jaw scroll chuck. The glue block can be used with a faceplate or after cutting a tenon, with chuck. Or, another option, if you do have a chuck, you can cut a tenon on the blank itself. Way back in the dark ages, we screwed a faceplate directly to the blank. That meant screw holes on the bottom of the bowl which had to be dealt with in various ways.

If you opt to use glue blocks there are some "musts". Both surfaces must true and flat. You're making a glue joint. I use med CA glue. Make sure that you use enough glue. I want to see squeezout. A glue block does't work well on end grain wood. Not a good glue joint. Unless you make a tenon to go inside the glue block.


I have a Oneway Talon and a power respirator. The blank is not even close to flat so I'm not sure a glue block is an option. In the examples in Bill's video he uses a face plate screwed to the blank, turns the bottom of the bowl with a tenon and then flips it around to turn the inside of the bowl by mounting the tenon in the chuck, thus removing the damage the screws do. Are you recommending not doing it this way? I guess I'm confused =).

[Wally Dickerman]

Follow all the above, but...everyone said it's ok to turn spalt, but no one the precautions that must be observed. Spalt is fungus/mold growing in the wood. Although sometimes dead, not all of them are and there is research that shows dead spores can be just as hazardous as live ones. Some spoes can live for thousands of years. Turning releases these spores into the atmosphere...specifically the atmosphere in your shop. Sanding does the same thing. A dust mask is useless for this purpose. If you do not have a powered respirator or a professionally fitted N95…don’t turn it until you do.

I'm sorry Jim but I must disagree on the absolute need for a respirator for turning spalted wood. I think that has been overblown. I do agree that some caution should be taken. In the last 40 or 50 years I've turned hundreds of pieces of spalted wood. All turned without the use of a dust mask except for sanding. In the old days I didn't even use a mask for sanding. At age 89, my lungs are clear. Perhaps I've been lucky, but I know many other old timers who would tell the same story.

On the other side of the coin, I have heard some rather scary stories of people who've had serious problems from the spores in spalted wood. I do think that they are rare however.

I don't knock the use of respirators when turning wood. I don't own one myself, but there may be one in my future.

[Wally Dickerman]

I have a Oneway Talon and a power respirator. The blank is not even close to flat so I'm not sure a glue block is an option. In the examples in Bill's video he uses a face plate screwed to the blank, turns the bottom of the bowl with a tenon and then flips it around to turn the inside of the bowl by mounting the tenon in the chuck, thus removing the damage the screws do. Are you recommending not doing it this way? I guess I'm confused =).

No, I recommend that that is exactly what you do. If you're careful you can even shim up the faceplate to make the blank run true while you turn a tenon or true the bottom for a glue block. If you do this it's a good idea to bring up the tailstock for support.

[Jim Burr]

You are free to disagree Wally, but I'll get ya in the long run. Since I'm licensed as an Respiratory Care Practionier and have a big love of woodworking, I have read dozens studies on the subject and been involved in several research studies. What I preach isn't fantasy...it's all documented fact. No one is susceptible to everything all the time. As an example, my grandmother smoked all her life and had not one ill effect. The former president of the British Columbia Woodworkers Assoc died three years ago from pulmonary fibrosis caused by wood dust. I'd rather not flip a coin. My pulmonologist is 100% positive the tumor I had removed last week from my lung was not caused by wood work, but the inflammation I have is. I added a 1000cfm air scrubber.
Although it sounds like I harp on people about it...I'd be neglectful not to help people avoid the risks and to protect themselves for their families sake if not their own.

[Doug Wolf]

Aaron,
I would mount the blank between centers with the cupped side facing the headstock. Turn a tenon on the tailstock side for your chuck. While it's still between centers work on the bottom (outside). Remove it from between the centers a mount it in your chuck to turn the inside. I turn 95% of my bowls this way, there is alway an exception, but this is the normal way. Reverse it and clean up the bottom with a jamb chuck or vacuum chuck.

[Peter Fabricius]

Hi Aaron;
It is a very nice piece of wood and will make a fantastic bowl.
It is only 12 x 2.5 so it is not too cumbersome for a new turner...
First take the corners off, bandsaw it round or cut them off with whatever you have.
Next, mount in the Talon. Use the Worm screw, drill 3/8" hole in the centre of the blank and screw it onto the woodworm. The blank does not have to be trued up on the woodworm screw side, just make sure the blank is as even as possible and touches the jaws of the chuck.
Use a bowl gouge to turn it round. Come at it from the outside edge and work across the end to make it round. Face off the piece as well.
Now, decide if you want to use a glue block or cut a tenon on the blank itself. The glue block will allow a taller bowl but only by about 1/4 inch.
If you face off and check with a straight edge you are ready to glue on a hardwood block and use the tailstock to put pressure on the two pieces. Aim for a little glue squeeze out to ensure you have enough. Use of brown paper in the joint is controvercial and probably best not to use.
Finish turn the outside shape of the bowl including sanding and applying a finish. (you cannot finish all of the exterior but you can get pretty close to the chuck, watch your fingers). Tung Oil applied as per instructions on the can, works really well.
Again Now, you are ready to turn the bowl around so you can hollow the interior. Bowl gouge or other tools you prefer. (Termite, round nose scraper etc.).
Sand and finish the interior.
Turn the bowl around to finish removing/remodelling the bottom. Using a Cole Jaws, Jam chuck, vacuum chuck etc. lots of options. Sand smooth to match the rest of the exterior. Apply Tung Oil same as you did inside the bowl and the upper part of the exterior. The Tung Oil blends in easily and you will not be able to tell that the exterior was done in two stages.

Good luck and get comfortable with a few test bowls, good advice and wear your respirator.
Peter F.