Help with photo

[Deb Kaiser]

Hello
I am also new to laser engraving. I got this bright idea for one of the guys in my husbands golf group that had a hole in one last year. I took a photo of the hole and would like to put it on a plague with his name date and type of club. My problem is the trees in the background are dark. I have tried to search the archives for help. Found one picture but not much help. Attaced is the photo any HELP would be greatly appreciated. If I can get this down maybe I can market it to the local golf clubs for those that do get holes in one.
Thanks in advance.
Deb

[Larry Bratton]

Deb:
What are you planning to engrave this on? Granite, wood, marble etc.? Regardless, you have a major contrast problem. IMHO this photo falls into the category of difficult to achieve good results. (Probably not going to be a huge market to players that make hole in ones..that just doesn't happen very often)

[Dan Hintz]

This is a horrible pic if you hope to achieve any sort of detail/contrast in the final engraving. Despite its detractors, this is an instance in which I would highly recommend HDR photography... that will get you the contrast/detail you need without destroying the contrast. Without HDR, you'll either lose detail in the bright fountain, or you'll lose it in the dark trees. And use a good camera... if you plan to market it to golfers, this is not the time to be trying your skills out with a $200 point-and-shoot pocket camera.

[David Takes]

Deb,

Most people who have holes in one like to make a collage of the items resulting from the achievement. That would be the ball, the witness-signed scorecard and a newspaper clipping. In one case, I even had some people have me mount their bar tab. In addition to these items I also make an engraved plate that has the details of the achievement. All of these things are mounted on a plaque.

I don't see it as much these days, but at many private golf clubs the members used to pay about $5 into a fund for hole-in-one insurance. It would cover the bar tab up to the amount in the fund when the member had a hole in one. Most of the time the funds are in the $1,500 - $2,500 range. Every time an invested member had a hole in one and they "consumed" the fund, they would bill the membership again to replenish it. The whole fund would get spent that day or over a series of days in celebration and honor of the achievement.

[Deb Kaiser]

Thanks for the help. I was going to engrve it on wood. I will have to rethink my project.

[Michael Conley]

Deb, just a thought but have you considered retaking the photo at a different time of day? It looks like the contrast problem might not be as bad if the sun were higher in the sky so that the shadows in the trees would not be as pronounced.

[lucas kreft]

i can try and adjust the levels in photoshop.. if you like

[Dee Gallo]

Deb, the photo posted is tiny and only 72 dpi...not something that is going to give you a great result. But, here it is touched up very quickly using Photoshop, about 1 minute's worth. I used the burn tool on midrange and highlights after the shadow/highlight tool, and that's it. If you really spent some time on it, you could probably get it to a usable form. There's very little to be done with the trees in the background, they are too blurry.

If it's really worth your while to pursue this area, I'd take a real camera out to each hole and get some decent photos at 600 dpi for future use.

cheers, dee

[Hannu Rinne]

Hi Deb (and all),

I don't know if this would help, but here is one test I made with the picture...

Regards,
Hannu

[Mike Chance in Iowa]

Deb,

This is a great photo to post as a learning example. Can you get this photo to engrave well? Yes, but it will take some work on your part and some experimentation with the dodge/burn/lighten tools available in your photo editing program. You would also need to tweak your shadows/midtones/highlights as well as sharpen or clarify and basically experiment with any tools you have!

You do not need to invest in HDR photography lessons and/or equipment. If your little Olympus had it's date/time set correct, try going in the afternoon instead of the morning like you did in this photo. It would be better to go back at a different time of day and take photos when the sun/shadows work to your advantage. Ideally, it would be to your advantage to borrow someone else's better DSLR camera then your little camera.

[Dan Hintz]

You do not need to invest in HDR photography lessons and/or equipment.
What equipment? And what lessons? Any run of the mill DSLR these days allows you to adjust the exposure... several pics and you throw it into a freebie program. The most complicated part is figuring out how to adjust exposure on your camera.

And it would get you an image that is 100 times better than what you could engrave onto wood...

[Mike Null]

I do work for 3 clubs here in the St. Louis area. None has ever purchased a hole in one remembrance. Individual members may do that on their own from time to time but I agree with David Takes that the scorecard and the ball are the most important items with a plate listing date, time and location. The ones I've done actually had no engraving at all, using the actual items and a sublimated plate.

At least 90% of the work I do for these clubs is diamond drag on silver and pewter club awards for tournaments.

This one was done for a neighbor for which I received a bottle of amber colored liquid from Scotland.

[greg lindsey]

I think this represents what most golfers are happy with when it comes to an award. I was with mine :) Simple bragging rights. BTW, thats me in the back, sorry had to show off. LOL- Photo's courtesy of Sandcarved Awards.

[Dee Gallo]

Deb,

It occurred to me that a better photo would be to find one of those fly-over pics taken by private airplane guys, showing the whole area with better (more even) lighting.

[Mike Chance in Iowa]

What equipment? And what lessons? Any run of the mill DSLR these days allows you to adjust the exposure... several pics and you throw it into a freebie program. The most complicated part is figuring out how to adjust exposure on your camera.

You're right Dan. Since you are skilled at HDR photography & editing and use it in your engravings, please write up a quick how-to/what-to do and point Deb to the freebie programs you are using. Please post samples of your HDR engravings so Deb (and all of us SMC members) can see the dramatic difference you are describing.

[Gary Hair]

I would include this picture on a dye sub plaque instead of engraving it. Some things are just not meant to be lasered...

Gary

[Dan Hintz]

You're right Dan. Since you are skilled at HDR photography & editing and use it in your engravings, please write up a quick how-to/what-to do and point Deb to the freebie programs you are using. Please post samples of your HDR engravings so Deb (and all of us SMC members) can see the dramatic difference you are describing.
Does my lack of agreement with your viewpoint leave such a poor taste in your mouth that you feel the need to resort to snarky passive aggressive attacks, Mike? You said one needs lessons and equipment to use HDR, I disagreed. It's not my job to teach you how to do everything, and other than spending some time to get familiar with what's involved (isn't that what is happening with any new laser venture?), what did I say that was incorrect? Plenty of online tutorials that teach what you need to know to begin creating great HDR images within 30 minutes of hitting Google... no need for "lessons", no need for "special equipment", just an interest in a method often maligned by people who are purists.

HDR offers exactly what Deb wants/needs, a large contrast range while keeping detail across that range. If she chooses not to use it, that's fine, but don't scare her away from it because you are feeling a bit cranky today.

To get you started, however, try this freebie:
http://www.hdrlabs.com/picturenaut/index.html
Great manual, nice interface, etc.

If you want more freebies to work with, try these:
http://fdrtools.com/fdrtools_basic_e.php
http://www.imagingluminary.com/Default.aspx
http://qtpfsgui.sourceforge.net/

As far as the camera is concerned, I don't know what she is using or has access to (did I miss it in an earlier post?). If there's an online manual, I'll spend a few minutes looking it up to determine if (and how) she can change exposure level to get her started.

[Mike Chance in Iowa]

Whoa Dan, You really need to stop and read notes better and quit being on this offensive attack mode.

I was not attacking you nor your suggestion in using HDR. Deb asked for help and you told her how horrible her photo was and told her to use HDR and use a good camera. Deb's photo EXIF info shows exactly what camera she used. That model of camera cannot change settings other then pre-programmed options and was mainly marketed for taking photos under water. Since Deb is using a simple Olympus, she probably has no idea what HDR means and any quick google search will point people to expensive cameras. My comment was for Deb. Not an attack on you. I gave her other options to use then HDR by suggesting she go back and take photos at another time of day. Take a look at many of your previous posts. I asked the same thing you ask on a regular basis - to provide information and write a how-to. I said you were right in not needing expensive classes. My post sounded as if that was the only option in learning HDR. I asked for you to share pictures of the methods you are describing that will improve engravings by 100x since you are skilled at taking HDR photos. (I do not have interest in HDR photography, so I do not have any sample engravings & photos to share with this forum, so the logical thing to ask is for you to share your photos.) You can take that as an insult or a compliment, but Dan, you are the one being cranky, snarky and passive aggressive.

[Dan Hintz]

My apologies, Mike... rough day at work (I replied just before throwing up my hands and heading home, where I'm at now... thank God!). I guess I read your reply in the wrong light.

Wood is one of the lowest resolution substrates an engraver can work on, so the image itself doesn't need to be very detailed. That said, the low-res image Deb initially posted was too poor to give her a good final result. I wanted this point to be clear before she went off and got frustrated trying to get it to work. No sense in her learning the hard way what most of us have known for a long time... GIGO (garbage in, garbage out), and our mind's sensitivity to photos really pulls out any poor quality. Start with a good picture, and in this case a good picture of such a scene will have good detail with a wide contrast range. This particular shot is one of the worst (other than a white dog against a white wall), with a bright white fountain and a very dark forest... the range is completely covered, and even good cameras have a difficult time separating out the detail due to the wide range.

Some golfer is going to be very happy with his qood plaque, and then he's going to ask if the same shot can be done on metal... and then can it be done in color on a piece of 1' square tile. Best to have a good shot with plenty of detail to start with so you're not redoing the shot.

[Gary and Jessica Houghton]

This one was done for a neighbor for which I received a bottle of amber colored liquid from Scotland.

I hope you enjoyed that colored liquid! I've heard the Scotish liquid is some of the best.

Oh, and nice job on the plaque.

[Deb Kaiser]

i can try and adjust the levels in photoshop.. if you like
If you want to try that would be great. I would like to get the trees jn the background a little more detailed if that makes sense. They just look really dark as they are. Deb

[Dan Hintz]

Deb,

Adjust the hue down about 25%... most of the detail has already been lost in that image, but decreasing the hue will bring out some of what's left in the shaded areas.

[Martin Boekers]

Now that we all are playing nice again,

HDR is pretty amazing, when use consevatively. So many of the images you see are a
bit over compensated on the dramatic side. You can use any camera capable of
shooting in RAW or bracketing images which then are blended together. Decent software
can be had for about $75-$100.

On the other end Photo Shop has an adjustment tool called shadow and hightlight makes
it quick and easy to get acceptable results from difficult images.

If your camera shoots RAW even better, as you can quickly control most aspects of the
images with the software in PS or that came with the camera.

Now onto the plaque, if you want to do this with images consult the pro shop at the
different clubs, most already have professional images taken of the holes for marketing
use.

Golfers are a hard sell as others have said. I find they would more likely add an
innovative $400 putter to their collection of 10 or 12 putters than spend $50 to have a
plaque commemorating a lifetime event.

The better chance would be to come up with a cheap but nice small stand for the ball
with room for a small plate and talk to the pro shop and see if the course would consider
buying that to give to the golfer, then have the upgrade available if they want to add a
scorecard or photo.

As for the liquid in the bottle chances are good that under certain circumstances it can
be dangerous. Please forward that to me and you have my word that it will be disposed
of in an evironmently friendly way.


Marty

[Mike Null]

Marty

That was consumed rather quickly as it had a nice warming characteristic. I have since obtained another bottle and will be happy to pour a couple when you come over.

[Martin Boekers]

Marty

That was consumed rather quickly as it had a nice warming characteristic. I have since obtained another bottle and will be happy to pour a couple when you come over.

I'm IN!!!!

Our open House was a great success Sat. The dog tags demoed the laser well and were a big hit.

I am in the middle of inventory today and Quarter awards have started.
Plus a couple Major Command events in the next week.

The Napkins are a great success with a Command level banquet as placeholders for the nominees!.

I'm losing my assistant to DC in a couple weeks so if you know of someone close to here needing some
work have them contact me. I posted some quick photos of my store area Sat let me know what you think.

When " Scottish eyes are smilin' ".........

[Joseph Belangia]

Have you considered something like this?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v214/jodyb/PA090492.jpg

Taking away some of that background allows room to not get lost in contrast-hell.