Staining a Hardwood Floor

[Colin Williams]

Thanks to the advice in here, I think so far my first hardwood floor install has been a success. Now I was going to ask how to obtain a certain kind of look when I finish it. I've always loved a hardwood floor that looks like the picture below. I'm wondering how you get that kind of look? I have laid down some pretty nice doug fir flooring. Can I get it to look something like below? If so, what kind of stain(s) would I need to get, does anybody know of a reference or a guide illustrating the techniques used to achieve that kind of appearance.


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Best,

Colin Williams

[Rich Engelhardt]

I use Minwax Golden Pecan oil based on all the red oak floors to get that color.
Doug fir should take the same color stain and come close.
You'll want to seal the Doug fir first w/a wash coat of Zinsser Seal Coat.
I'd suggest one part Seal Coat to two parts denatured alcohol.

Here's an after and before of the last one I did.
~ 60 year old neglected red oak floor.
Sanded - stained (no sealer for the red oak) - a coat of Seal Coat to "lock in" the oil, sanded, vac'ed & tack ragged, another coat of Seal Coat in case I sanded through anywhere, sanded, vac'ed and tack ragged, first coat of Water based floor poly, sanded, vac'ed (no tack rag for this step and the rest of the water poly), 2nd coat of ploy, sanded, vac'ed, 3rd coat of poly, sanded, vac'ed, 4th coat of poly.

Dry time between coats of floor poly was no less than 6 and no more than 12.
Pick your product very carefully here. I was in a time crunch and had to put the poly on mid week.
Sanding floors on your hand and knees @ 3:00am - after working the entire day before and getting ~ 3 hours sleep,,,,and knowing that once you finish putting on the poly, you'll have to rush to get ready for work at 8:00 - is a killer.

188521.188520

Floors aren't at all tough to do. It's the sheer size of the undertaking that's intimidating.
Just keep the basics in mind. Sand light & always with the grain. I sanded the first coat of Seal Coat by hand using a drywall sander and 220A. The U-Sand (pictured) left some very slight swirls. The hand sanding got them out.
I used a ROS for the second coat.

Follow the dry times on the containers of the materials you use - to -the - letter.

One last tip..see the yellow extension pole? Don't cut corners on an extension pole. Get a decent one.

[Neal Clayton]

amber shellac will give you that look right outta the can.

put a varnish on top if you want something tougher.

one coat of clear, one/two coats of amber til you get the shade of red you want, then your varnish on top and you're done.

since the shellac dries so fast you can do all of that in one day too ;).

[Scott Holmes]

Amber shellac mixed from flakes. Zinzzer Amber shellac still has the wax; the water-borne poly or the regular poly will have major trouble sticking to shellac with wax in it...

[robert raess]

I have sanded and refinished hardwood floors for over 27 yrs.Almost all the doug Fir floors i've finished I have used oil based polyurethane.It will give it that orange look you may be looking for.However,over time the oil poly will darken,think of that in a positive way of maybe not needing to stain.I have been asked to stain some doug. fir, and i always use a stain controller[minwax].I don't recommend it for the first time staining a fir floor..other things enter the equation such as swirl marks, sanding lines, and consistency of application of stain controller.I made a story board yrs. ago, of all the diff. oil based poly avail..some had def. orange overtones,others honey other blue andpurple..I use duraseal[honey] defthane[honey]..P.S. the reason i use store bought stain controller vs. homemade=ease of use,dry time,consistency..hope this helps.. rob

[Colin Williams]

Hi, thanks for all the input guys! Do you think the picture on the top is an oil based poly? The pictures of the floor that rich installed are pretty nice, however, I was looking for a little more of the amber color on top. Would an oil based poly give me something closer to that? Robert, are you saying that I will get something similar to that appearance without a stain?

[robert raess]

I'd have to see a close up,and a larger pic...but every doug fir floor i ever resanded was natural no stain.They may used shellac+ varnish..but for today i would use an oil base polyurethane.I use dura-seal, made by minwax for floor pro's,sometimes carried by sherwin williams. it dries in about 5-8 hrs.Mckloskey gymseal is very orange and takes a long time to dry. I have not used it in 25 yrs.Also i remember it was prone to not laying down very well. The Duraseal lays down well.All oil poly's will darken in time.Shellac is a great sealer,but if you're not familiar with it, there is a learning curve.Sealcoat sold by Home depot is dewaxed shellac..good for first coat+ 2 more of oil poly..avoid the sealcoat if you're not comfortable..hope this helps..rob

[Neal Clayton]

shellac on a floor is pretty straightforward since it's a flat surface and tends to level as you put it down (as long as you keep going, as i'm sure robert knows you can't be slow with it, have to work quickly to keep your 'edge' wet).

here's an old longleaf pine floor of mine with garnet (similar to amber, a hair darker) used for color. that wood is pretty similar to your fir as well, so the look should be comparable. you do need to put something down first as a sealer, otherwise it can get splotchy. clear will work, or you can use some of your varnish and just put the shellac in the middle. a 2 pound cut is about right for laying down on a floor. i put waterlox on top of the shellac.

firs and pines are difficult to stain evenly, that's why, imo, shellac is a much better way to change the natural color if that's what you want. you can't make it stain well, the sap/heart woods are just too different.

[Rich Engelhardt]

Just keep in mind w/any shellac that, unless it's dewaxed, it could cause major problems with a poly topcoat.

IIRC, Homestead sells a variety of dewaxed flakes in different colors.


I'd have to see a close up,and a larger pic...but every doug fir floor i ever resanded was natural no stain.
I was kind of wondering why the OP wanted to color the doug fir.

I have to usually stain most of the floors I do so they blend in with the other floors that I'm not doing.

[Colin Williams]

I wanted to stain the floor because I do not like the natural look. Can you be more explicit about difficult to stain evenly? Rich, are you no longer recommending the pecan oil method you stated above?

[Rich Engelhardt]

Colin,
From the picture you listed, I believe the Minwax Golden Pecan oil stain would be a fairly close match.
My personal preference though is to only use stain(s) if I'm trying to get the wood to blend in with something else or for some type of special effect.
I personally like the "natural look" of doug fir.


I wanted to stain the floor because I do not like the natural look
That's plenty enough reason right there & there's no reason to say more.

Re: difficulty of staining evenly.
Doug fir and pine need to have a sealer of some sort so the stain takes evenly. If a sealer isn't used, then the softer spots in the wood will take more stain and the finish will be blotchy.

I'm w/Russ on using the Minwax oil stain control. It has a much longer open time than using a wash coat of shellac. The other advantage it has is that being an oil, if you do get it on too heavy in some spots, the oil stain will lift the stain controller and allow you to "work" those areas.

Run some samples both with and without a wood conditioner (or pre stain as it's often called).
Actually seeing the difference is better than trying to visualize it.

If you go to Google - select Images from the top tool bar (Web Images Videos Maps) and search for blotchy stain on pine - then you can get an idea of what the conditioner does.

[Neal Clayton]

I wanted to stain the floor because I do not like the natural look. Can you be more explicit about difficult to stain evenly? Rich, are you no longer recommending the pecan oil method you stated above?

rich explained it pretty well. the unique properties of this type of wood are the issue. the sapwood (white part) is highly soft and absorbent, the heartwood (red part) is very hard and not absorbent.

so it's difficult to get a color changing method to apply uniformly, because the different parts of a single board will absorb at different rates.

so there's two choices. experiment with applying the stain over a sealer, thus preventing the wood from absorbing. or use a color method that doesn't rely on the wood absorbing at all. shellac would be option #2, the color is in the finish film, not absorbed into the wood.

figuring out which is pretty simple. go get a fir board from the lumberyard, some stain, some clear, some amber, and experiment with both methods and see which you prefer.

the zinnser "seal coat" stuff at home depot is fine for sealer purposes, and could be used underneath either method.

edit: scott's point about using dewaxed if you opt for the amber instead of the stain is correct, though. if you plan to put polyurethane down as the last coat you'll need to get dewaxed amber, the premixed cans at the store have wax in them and poly won't stick to it. i order mine online from shellacshack.com or shellac.net, depending on which is cheaper. mixing it is simple, measure out 1 pound of flakes, add 2 quarts of alcohol. shake the can every so often for a few hours until it dissolves. as long as you keep that ratio of 2 pounds per gallon you can mix however much quantity you need.

[Colin Williams]

Hi again, thanks for all the advice! I ended up using Benjamin Moore Colonial Maple stain (based on Richs' advice) , after pretreating with Minwax Wood Conditioner (thanks for letting me know about the conditioner guys!) . For the protective coats, I ended up using a "penetrating oil" finish. Specifically Daly's Floor Fin. From what I understand, it is easy to recoat the finish. Part of the decision in using this product was made by reading http://tinyurl.com/3caw9e2 this article from Old-House Journal, May 1981. (It's really neat that google archived this magazine on the internet.) Maybe I'm making a poor choice, but I've been pretty happy with the way the floor is turning out. I just put down the 2nd coat of finish, I may end up using the rest of the product and putting down 4 coats, instead of 3.

[Steve Schoene]

Dura Seal isn't a Minwax brand, it is separate, although both Minwax and DuraSeal are brands of Sherwin Williams. Sherwin-Williams is the parent company of these and quite a few other brands.

Just another terminology matter as far as Douglas Fir is concerned. The white porous part is early wood and the dense red part is the late wood, based on when these growth rings are formed in the growing season. Sapwood is on the outer portion of the log and is where the movement of sap is occurring, the heartwood has "retired" and is no longer the active portion of the tree. For example, the heartwood is the desirable darker part of walnut. On maple and birch, we typically use the light colored sapwood. (But, the heartwood of the yellow birch tree is sold as "red birch".)

[Rich Engelhardt]

Maybe I'm making a poor choice, but I've been pretty happy with the way the floor is turning out.
That's what really counts..that you're happy with the way it's turing out.
.