Start to finish… "Parfait" step by step.

[David DeCristoforo]

I have seen this form done so well by so many incredibly good turners that all I can hope for is to manage a decent interpretation of it. But the rosewood burl is calling so off I go.

I'm doing this one "John Keeton" style in that I am designing it first, working out the basic lines, dimensions and form beforehand. I'm still playing with the pedestal design but the drawn version is "pretty close" to what I want. I'm still ambivalent about the finial. I know there will be a finial and I know it be a "multi piece" construction. But there are still some decisions to be made there. Also, I'm still not sure about whether or not to leave a natural edge on the cup. On my last one I took the NE off and I really like the way it works with a crisp edge. This one is still in question. I'll make that call as the work progresses.

Here is my drawing and a pic of the roughed out blank on the lathe.

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I'll post in process pics as this turning takes shape. Feel free to offer any critiques, criticisms, or hails of derisive laughter as your fancy strikes….

[Dan Forman]

Ooooo, this is going to be good! That burl looks very promising.

Dan

[Tim Thiebaut]

Cool looking piece of wood David, looking forward to seeing what comes out of it.

[David DeCristoforo]

JK just gave me a heads up that the drawing did not upload. Sorry.....

[David E Keller]

Looks like a promising design. I tend to favor the natural edge when it's attractive and adds something, but I did like the sharp edge of the last form you posted. I'm not one for planning my pieces, but I'll have to admit that my finials are better when I at least rough sketch something prior to beginning them. Looking forward to seeing the progess.

[John Keeton]

David, this is going to be a highly refined piece!! I love the drawing, though I would consider perhaps just a bit less flare where the pedestal stem sits on the base. It would create a continous curve were it pulled in just a hair.

I think the NE on this piece of burl would easily work with this piece and the cream sapwood might make for some interesting color accent depending on what you intend to do. What about turning your finial insert with the burl, leaving a little of the sapwood, and "fake" the dark NE on it? Now, that would be sharp!!

[Roger Chandler]

David,

If you pull off the drawing on the actual wood, you will have created a beautiful form for sure. For my $.02, I like the finial on the form in the drawing because it replicates the form itself in the finial, and I think enhances the technical difficulties of pulling this together.

Your drawing is certainly inspirational, and if accomplished on the actual wood, then you will have made a very fine and well conceived work. Very elegant indeed, and worthy of some considerable display.

I am pullin' for you on the execution of this concept.........good luck!

[David DeCristoforo]

I agree about the pedestal. I've been looking at it and thinking, as you mentioned, that there might be too much mass at the flair. Also, the transition curve into the stem needs refinement. This is the nice thing about planning. It's way easier to change the drawing than the actual piece! I'm loving Adobe Illustrator!

My thinking is that for the lid, I want to use a small piece of the burl that has sapwood at the "bottom" and then a transition back to heartwood at the top. If I use a small "insert" on the finial to replicate the main form, I want to have the same effect there as well. The finial is still undecided. I have some time yet to "click" on something.

[David DeCristoforo]

Had a bit of time to get some turning done today.

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I can tell you this much... these things sure look different in 3D than they do on paper! Anyway, I came pretty close to my target shape:

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Still undecided about the edge but tomorrow I'll start working on the inside and then I'll decide. I have to make up my mind before I get too deep into the inside or else I'll be faced with the dreaded "go back and work on the rim" scenario.

[Tim Thiebaut]

David what did you do the drawing with? Looks good so far, I really like the drawing you did.

[John Keeton]

David, you got darn close on the form/sketch comparison!! The concave at the rim is always the toughest part for me. It seems to be deep enough - until you put the template to it. That wood is just beautiful - makes me want to cut into one of the burls I ended up with.

I think the inverted burl would work for the lid. It appears that your ledge for the lid will be well within the sapwood, and your idea would give you a nice transition area.

I have not used Illustrator, but it sure did a great job for you here! Is that what you used for furniture design?

[David DeCristoforo]

"...what did you do the drawing with?..."

"I have not used Illustrator...Is that what you used for furniture design?"

I have used Illustrator for many years. Mostly for these types of line drawings that are going to be posted on the web. "Power users" can get some pretty amazing results with it but I'm no power user! And, really, for this kind of stuff, CAD is much better. But I'm too cheap and lazy to get into CAD.

"The concave at the rim is always the toughest part for me..."

Yup... me too! In looking at the overlay, I still have some touching up to do at the rim to sweeten up the curve. I have to do that before I start on the inside.

[Steve Schlumpf]

David - really like the design but the more I looked at it.... the more I started to play with the elements.

I modified your original to point out ideas. Please use or disregard as you see fit.
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Sure is some pretty wood and I am confident that whatever final form you create will be stunning! Looking forward to seeing it!

[David DeCristoforo]

Steve, thanx for the suggestions. The only part I'm totally committed to at this point is the shape of the main form. I'm still playing with the pedestal and finial details. I currently have about six variations of each! The part I am most unsure of is the embellishment in the finial. It might be just one too many details and I'm afraid it will look too contrived. I guess I can just make it and then see how it works before gluing the pieces together. If it's not a "fit" I can always put it next to my colossal rosewood hollow form!

[Steve Schlumpf]

David - I am not an expert on anything - let alone design - but in my opinion, a finial is either designed as the main focus of the turning (ornate) or as an simple element used to add height to the piece. Decide what it is you want as the main focus and simply everything else. Just my take on things...

[David DeCristoforo]

"...I am not an expert on anything..."

Nor am I. But you have an innate sense of form and many more years of experience at the lathe under your belt than I. One of the reasons I decided to start this thread is that I wanted some critiques and input. Ultimately, it will be my call and I will "go with my gut". This is part of the process of seeking perfection. I am not so arrogant as to think I will actually achieve perfection. But I think I enjoy the process more than the product!

[Steve Schlumpf]

I am not so arrogant as to think I will actually achieve perfection. But I think I enjoy the process more than the product!

Agree 100%! Enjoy the journey!

[Russell Eaton]

David that is a tease. Get back to work inquiring minds want to see the complete project. I like the idea of drawing and looks like you have don a great job of executing it. I will keep watching.

[David DeCristoforo]

So far, I've got the outside profile refined a bit to have more flair at the rim.

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Also, one decision is made. This will have a natural edge. I've cut down into the inside enough to get a ledge formed for the lid.

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Once I get it all cleaned out, I'll go back to the outside, refine the curve at the bottom and cut the tenon for the pedestal.

Meanwhile, I have been plying with finial options...

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...and I have worked out what I think will be the final design for the pedestal:

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I don't know what is more fun... working on the piece or tweaking the design.

[Nate Davey]

I'm really enjoying watching the progress and thought process you are going through. Educational for me and enjoying to read and watch. Next time, a video with Charlton Heston voice over.

[John Keeton]

David, it certainly is looking good so far!! Would you mind doing one more drawing for the finial? Take #6, and coming off the top of the replication, begin a cove just like coming off the top of the lid and carry that concave curve upward to the top as otherwise drawn. That would carry that design element all the way from the bottom of the pedestal through the top of the turning. Might not work, but I think it may be an interesting option.

[David DeCristoforo]

"Would you mind doing one more drawing for the finial? Take #6..."

That might work. It does make for a very "busy" finial but it is definitely a contender...

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[John Keeton]

David, actually I meant without the onion. Just carry the concave curve coming off the cove base all the way to the top embellishment. Looks like one would have to shorten the finial too much - may not work. Hard for me to visualize without having the drawings and a pencil (and eraser!!) in front of me.

Sort of a variation of #1, but a sharper cove cut coming back in.

[David DeCristoforo]

Not sure I'm following. You mean like this?

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[David DeCristoforo]

I got this far today. The main form is done...

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sanded and polished.

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Tomorrow, I'll turn the tenon down to 3/8", part it off and start working on the lid.

[John Keeton]

Wow!! David, that thing sure polished out well. What did you use?

On the finial, less overhang (radius) and a quicker and deeper return on the base of the spire - more like all of the other coves - the base, the beginning of the pedestal, the base of the finial, etc.

[David DeCristoforo]

"...that...polished out well. What did you use?"

Just sanded to 1500, paste wax and a rag polish. This is one of the reasons I like rosewood. It just polishes up so nicely. I'm working on the finial design but it isn't getting there. I'm either missing your idea completely or it's a bad idea. I emailed you the graphic. If you want to, you could print it and pencil it up, scan it and fire it back. Don't know if you want to go to all that much trouble but I really would like to see what you have in mind. I'm sure I'm missing it.

[Dan Forman]

This is really interesting, watching all of the refinements and options being worked out. The form itself looks grand, can't believe that polish.

Dan

[Rick Markham]

David, this is a very cool thread, thank you for taking the time to post it. It is enlightening (as well as, intriguing) to see how your design process works. It's looking spectacular so far! I'm looking forward to seeing the rest.

[David DeCristoforo]

I got an email from JK this morning with his edit of my finial design. I refined to drawing a bit and here they are side by side...

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The finial is the big question in my mind right now. I may end up making several just to see which one will work best. But that's still a ways out. Today I'm hoping to have time to make the lid. I also refined the pedestal design a bit more to sweeten up the curves...

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This is a very interesting process for me. I don't think I have ever put this much thought into a turning before or worked to specific dimensions. I usually just go at it with a basic idea and let it happen.

[John Keeton]

David, can you use Illustrator to overlay the finial suggestion on the main form? I would be interested on what the proportions look like. Don't mean to take over your design thoughts here!! It is just that you have drawn in the masses with your thread - which I think is great, BTW!

[David E Keller]

This continues to be an interesting thread, but I'd like for you to back away from the 'Illustrator' program and go finish that turning!:D

[John Keeton]

But I think I enjoy the process more than the product!David K., don't rush this phase!!!:D Can't you see that some of us that suffer from various neuroses enjoy this part! Turning can wait!;):rolleyes:

[David DeCristoforo]

John, I will do that later today. I went out and turned down the tenon and parted off the form. Got the piece cut out for the lid but now I have to go make breakfast for my wife. And FWIW, I don't feel at all like you are "taking over my design thoughts"! I'm really enjoying the process here.

David, I will probably not be able to finish this before mid week. There are just too many other demands on my time at this point so I have to fit the turning in around everything else. I know I'm spending a lot of time drawing that might be better spent turning. Also, a lot of time posting that might better be spent turning. But this one is more about the process than the product. There have been lots of people asking for threads like this that illustrate the various steps involved in making a piece like this. I'm enjoying this part of it as much as the making. There are probably a number of people thinking "Oh come on already... just turn the damn thing!" I'm just not inclined to rush it. I only hope the end result is worth all the "hoorah"...

[Roger Chandler]

David............this "process" that you are doing is like a class in turning to a number of guys who like to go to this forum for help in understanding the "how to" of certain aspects of turning. I like that you said " I'm enjoying this part of it as much as the making." That will make a difference for some who aspire to be able to turn on this level at some point in their learning.

Great thread and a really nice project...........I like the fact that you have posted your design thoughts and allowed input from JK and others. This will be a unique turning for sure, even if it is for the "process" you have included others in, and the tutorial you have provided........Thanks!

[David Reed]

I have been able to lurk a bit and find myself liking this process very much. Like you, I don't really plan much when turning these forms and sometimes it show. I am learning a bit re the planning I should be putting into my work.
You have developed a lovely form and the burl is stunning. The form is very elegant and classical and the finish (or lack thereof) is incredible. I do like the pedestal you have drawn. It displays the form and adds grace and style. I am not certain about the finial at this stage. It is likely that I am focusing on the reproduction of the parfait shape just too much but, on paper at least, it appears a bit contrived. I expect it will complement the turning in the end when presented as a complete unit without such a focus on this element.

[Dwight McNutt]

David: Thank you so much for this thread. As a new turner it has helped me so much on being able to see a shape in a piece of wood and how to bring it out. The different design elements are a learning process in their own. Also thanks to all who have joined in the design conversation, each suggestion is a chapter in itself. Again I know it is very time consuming, but it is a great lesson to new turners. Thanks again and maybe more people will continue these type of threads.

Dwight

[David DeCristoforo]

...is done. This is the "chunk" I started with:

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Got it round and turned a 3/4" tenon on the end so I could mount it in a collet chuck...

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...then turned the lip...

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...and made sure it fit the cup.

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Then turned the outside, hollowed out the inside and polished it up.

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Then I reversed the lid, finished up the top area and turned a small 1/4" tenon for the finial base. Ooo baby... watch out for those appendages with those cole jaws flyin' around!!!

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[John Keeton]

David, you need a set of soft jaws! They work perfectly for the way you finished out the lid.

This project is moving along!! I like the sapwood reversal on the lid, BTW.

[David DeCristoforo]

"...you need a set of soft jaws..."

Yes... to go with my soft head...

[David DeCristoforo]

Not much time today but I did get the pedestal design refined a bit more...

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...and got the blank made up and on the rack...

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Hopefully I'll have time to turn the pedestal tomorrow.

Meanwhile, Keller and Schlumpf are cranking out pieces like there was no tomorrow!

[Mark Hubl]

Been loving this thread. Thanks for posting. Lots to be learned. I walked in my living room and had a chuckle, I looked at some glass pieces sitting on the window sill and thought, those look like DD forms. Ha.

[David E Keller]

I like the refinements you've done on the pedestal design.

I didn't turn anything this weekend, and I'm unlikely to get any time this coming week... You've got about 10 days before I start cranking up again!

[John Keeton]

David, significant improvement in the pedestal design!! Much better scale and flow.

[David DeCristoforo]

"...significant improvement..."

"...like the refinements..."

Thanx. Now... if only I can actually make it look like that!

[John Keeton]

Oh, I have no doubt about that!! The design is the difficult part, and you have done fantastic with that. You have already demonstrated your skill level - the rest is a piece of cake!

[Tim Thiebaut]

David this has been a great thread, thank you for letting us follow along while you are creating this form. I have no doubt this info is going to help many of us as we try it for ourselfs at some point down the road.

[David DeCristoforo]

I got some time this afternoon to turn and polish the ebony pedestal. My construction on this one was a bit different from my "usual". I generally join a base piece and a stem piece via a long 3/8" tenon as shown in the top sketch below. Then the tenon can be held in a collet chuck. But I wanted this one to be ebony and I didn't have a piece long enough to turn a 2" long tenon on. So I used a third piece to join my base and stem and provide a tenon for holding as shown in the bottom sketch:

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I do have some 2 1/4" square ebony billets that are long enough to make this pedestal but that would mean wasting a lot of wood in the turning and that would just offend my sense of "resource husbandry".

I made a few small "field changes" at the last minute. The base is a bit taller than my drawing shows but I wanted a deeper ogee to better relate to the long ogee shape of the cup.

I can tell you one thing. Working to dimensions on something like this is not easy! I checked the drawing against the piece with calipers around a hundred times or so but even the thickness of the drawn line can come into play. I did not want this pedestal to be too thin (you mean there is such a thing as "too thin?!?!) but it was a pretty fine line between "too thin" and "too bulky". I got very close to my drawing with it and it polished up nicely so at this point I'm satisfied with it.

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This morning, as I was driving back from taking my daughter over to school in Sacramento, I made my decision on the finial. So tomorrow, I'll get working on that. Tune in then (or the next day), same bat time, same bat channel...

[Nate Davey]

I'm halfway through a drive from NC to Oregon. I look forward to this post every night.

[John Keeton]

David, I would be satisfied, too!! Very good work. Interesting how you do your pedestals. I turn the pieced independently, drilling a hole in the top of the pedestal base to accept a stub tenon on the stem. And, depending on the piece, I drill a hole in the top of the stem to receive a stub tenon on the bottom of the form. Really interesting how we all use different techniques, and I suspect most of us come up with those methods on our own. I don't recall ever seeing anyone "build" a multi-turning piece, and just kind of developed a technique - as you probably did, as well.

[David DeCristoforo]

"...I drill a hole in the top of the stem to receive a stub tenon on the bottom of the form..."

I do that too... just forgot to mention it! I usually make it 3/8" X 1/4" deep using a forstner bit in the tailstock and then put the point of the cone center into the little dimple left in the center of the hole by the bit. I started out turning the stem and base as separate pieces but I found it was easier for me to get the shapes right if I joined them first. Then all I had to learn was to get the transition right on the glue line or it looks like crap!

[John Keeton]

David, from the sketch, it appeared that the tenon passes all the way thru the base??

[David DeCristoforo]

"...from the sketch, it appeared that the tenon passes all the way thru the base..."

Si. And sticks out an inch or so. That's the part I grab with the collet chuck. Capice?

[John Keeton]

Capice!! I usually finish off the bottom of my base prior to assembly. In fact, I finish pretty much everything, including buffing prior to glue up.

[David DeCristoforo]

"I usually finish off the bottom of my base prior to assembly..."

That's why the tenon is so long. After the pedestal is finished, I can loosen the collet, scoot the tenon out a bit and get the bottom cleaned up and parted off. And if that does not get me all the way there, I hook up my ABS vacuum pedestal chuck (remember that one?) and clean it up that way. Probably not the easiest way to do it but then, I don't think anything I'm doing is the easiest way!

[Cathy Schaewe]

This has been fascinating. When the piece is done (next year perhaps?;)) I'm going to have to go back and re-read this and put it all together mentally. Thanks for the step-by-step -

[David E Keller]

Very interesting! I hadn't thought to do it that way, but I can see the benefit in some circumstances. Is that purpleheart or another piece of rosewood that you used for the 'peg'? Looks like it will add a nice little detail to the bottom of the pedestal.

[David DeCristoforo]

"Is that purpleheart...?"

Si. I thought it would be nice to have a small purple dot on the bottom....

[Mark Hubl]

Nothin but fun here. The pedestal is looking good. I was going to ask the same thing as David, Is that purple heart sticking out? Will there be a purple dot on the bottom? If so, nice touch. Hear what you are saying about "resource husbandry" when working with ebony, the resource is what leaves the wallet.

[Jon Prouty]

David - this is a brilliant topic / thread and I cannot thank you enough for the time and effort you put into keeping it updated. what fun! Here I was thinking that most pedestals were one piece turnings - I thought what a lot of waste into the bin. This is brilliant!

Jon

[David DeCristoforo]

"Here I was thinking that most pedestals were one piece turnings ...This is brilliant!"

Not so much brilliant as cheap!

[David DeCristoforo]

Today I got the finial done. It was not easy! Four separate, very small pieces with tiny tenons on the ends. I decided to go with the embellishment that represents a small version of the main form. The reason I landed on that one was because... well... I just wanted to! I also went with the elongated "onion" shape for the main piece of the finial. My thinking was that the cove element is repeated several times as is the "ogee" shape. The one thing that did not repeat anywhere was the stem of the pedestal. This finial incorporates a reflected repeat of that shape. I have to apologize for the crappy cell phone pic and also the lack of pics of the various components. I took them but they are all so blurred that they are not worth messing with.

This was to most divergent from the drawings of all the various pieces that have gone into this. I modified everything "on the fly" because they all looked "fat" when turned to the drawn dimensions. So everything was scaled down. Here is the finished finial:

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Tomorrow I will get it all put together and post pics of the finished piece...

[Roger Chandler]

Very unique! The rosewood replication of the form is quite good, David. I like that you were able to get some sapwood in the replication as well. Looking forward to the finished piece...........I think we need a grand orchestra to play an appropriate fanfare intro to your debut! ;):D

[John Keeton]

Well, aside from the crappy picture (yes, it is crappy!!) it looks great!! I sure am looking forward to seeing it put together, David.

[David E Keller]

I like the finial as a stand alone element, but I can't visualize the finished piece... What are the odds of you poking that finial in the top and that pedestal in the bottom and giving us all a little peak? Patience is a virtue that I've not attained.

[David DeCristoforo]

"What are the odds...giving us all a little peak?"

Zip! Sorry... just no time. But I promise... tomorrow...

[Trevor Howard]

OK its Tomorrow ;):D

Seriously, thank you for taking the time to document this piece. Hopefully when I improve I can come back and re-fresh on how to do one.

[David DeCristoforo]

I wanted to thank everyone who took the time to check out this thread and comment on it. It's been "fun". I also should apologise again for the appalling photography of the finial. I was really pressed for time when I was making it so even though I did stop to take pictures of each component, I was just in too much of a hurry and they were all blurred beyond what the "sharpen" filter could rectify.

Please do not make the mistake of seeing this thread as a "tutorial". It was not my intention to do a "how to". One of the things I learned in doing it is that many of the processes I have evolved over the last year are a bit cumbersome and in no way represent the "best way" to get things done. I've probably learned more from doing this thread than anyone!

[David DeCristoforo]

Since Greg Ketell has seen fit to add this to his "sticky" Start to Finish thread, I thought I'd better add a finished pic! Thanx Greg...

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[Greg Ketell]

Thank YOU, David. This was an awesome thread and a freaking beautiful finished piece. You did stellar work!!


(for future readers, you can find more pictures of this gorgeous piece of art here: http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?163211-quot-Parfait-quot-The-Anticlimax)