Laguna LT16HD or Felder HB600

[Jeff Monson]

I'm really close to a new bandsaw, the march madness sale at Laguna has REALLY got me on the fence now. I've looked into the FB600 for a few months now, there does not seem to be alot of reviews or information on them. The LT16HD seems to be a really nice saw, lots of information on them here at SMC also. As I cant see either one in person, it makes the decision harder.

The table size on the FB is quite a bit larger than the Laguna, also its a much heavier machine. I'm not quite sure if the FB is worth the extra $550.00 + the Laguna comes with 2 blades and a mobility kit. Also I want to make sure I'm comparing apples to apples with these 2 machines? Just looking for some insight to help make up my mind.

[Van Huskey]

I'm really close to a new bandsaw, the march madness sale at Laguna has REALLY got me on the fence now. I've looked into the FB600 for a few months now, there does not seem to be alot of reviews or information on them. The LT16HD seems to be a really nice saw, lots of information on them here at SMC also. As I cant see either one in person, it makes the decision harder.

The table size on the FB is quite a bit larger than the Laguna, also its a much heavier machine. I'm not quite sure if the FB is worth the extra $550.00 + the Laguna comes with 2 blades and a mobility kit. Also I want to make sure I'm comparing apples to apples with these 2 machines? Just looking for some insight to help make up my mind.


That is a decision about capacity as far as I am concerned. The FB600 had been on sale for quite a while at 3,000 so I assume that changed? If you need the extra throat depth the FB600 is a no brainer, if you don't I might lean toward the Laguna for current price and the guides. For a traditional bandsaw (shorter resaw height) like the FB600 I would suggest the Agazzani B-24 instead they are priced very similarly. If you do not need the taller resaw height of the saws you have mentioned (about 16") the Hammer is currently on sale and a VERY nice saw.

[Bruce Page]

I would take the furnished blades out of the equation. My MiniMax came with 3 blades and they were hardly worth the trouble to mount them. They’ll do in a pinch but you are going to want some better blades.
I know some people like them - (Van Huskey :)), but I hated the mobility kit and went to a Delta mobile base ASAP.

[Van Huskey]

I would take the furnished blades out of the equation. My MiniMax came with 3 blades and they were hardly worth the trouble to mount them. They’ll do in a pinch but you are going to want some better blades.
I know some people like them - (Van Huskey :)), but I hated the mobility kit and went to a Delta mobile base ASAP.

Bruce is correct I do like the Euro mobility kits BUT you will HATE them if your floor is not FLAT. I have billiard table machine finished concrete so they roll like a dream BUT I have used them on what LOOKED like completely flat concrete and they catch, it doesn't take much.

As for the blades the ones they are offering are decent blades BUT I would get on the phone and try to trade out the blades for credit toward a Resaw King instead, I dunno if they will do it but that would be my approach, you may want to try to work some credit for the mobility base if your floor isn't really flat also.

[Jeff Monson]

Van, Bruce, thanks for the info. Van the extra throat depth is very attractive on the FB, extra capacity would be nice to have (not really sure if I need it or not though). I dont really expect to need more than 12" resaw height as my J/P is 12". The major draw for the Laguna to me is the guide system, is it that much better than the Felder guides??

Bruce, I think you made a good point on the blades, while it looks good on paper you are correct about needing better blades. I will most likely make my own mobile base or install some zambus casters on either machine.

Its going to be pretty tough for me at this point to not go with the Felder, the customer service again with Felder has been "beyond satisfied". They have not let me down yet.

[Jeff Monson]

As for the blades the ones they are offering are decent blades BUT I would get on the phone and try to trade out the blades for credit toward a Resaw King instead, I dunno if they will do it but that would be my approach, you may want to try to work some credit for the mobility base if your floor isn't really flat also.

Van, just to clear any confusion, the Laguna deal they have to my knowlege, is a 1 1/4" resaw king, mobility kit and free shipping. $3145.00. That has to be a $225.00 blade.

Thats my understanding, I'm still waiting for the quote that was supposed to be emailed to me.

[Wes Grass]

I sold a 16HD to get the FB-600. My only complaints with the Laguna were the throat capacity and table size, as well as the lack of dust collection below the table. Only the throat capacity was beyond fixing.

I got the Felder while it was at the introductory price, which included 3 blades and a cast iron extension table (which weren't really free). It's a nice saw, solid and smooth. The larger table is wonderful, but get help to install it unless you have an engine hoist (~170lbs. The Laguna is half that, and half the size). A noted squawk in other threads is that it won't tilt much past 20°, if that matters to you. And there's no provision for tweaking the fence for blade drift. I haven't seen an issue with it so far.

I liked the Laguna ceramic guides a lot more than the 'Euro' style the Felder has. On the down side, they needed some work getting them squared up. The ceramics weren't parallel, or square to the back of the blocks. They seemed to work fine as is, but this made them easier to adjust without binding the blade.

One little bug I found with the Laguna involved the fence and the placement of the blade tension indicator on the inside of the frame. The fence couldn't be removed (swung up and slid off), to increase the throat width a bit, without either removing the blade or loosening the fence rail (which would ruin the alignment). The Felder lifts right off. It's also quickly reversible if you want to use it to the right of the blade, and the rail interchanges with the longer ones for the table saw.

[Van Huskey]

Van, just to clear any confusion, the Laguna deal they have to my knowlege, is a 1 1/4" resaw king, mobility kit and free shipping. $3145.00. That has to be a $225.00 blade.

Thats my understanding, I'm still waiting for the quote that was supposed to be emailed to me.

I was incorrect, I had looked at the March Madness "flyer" and mixed the HD up with the 3000, the RK is in that deal. So absolutely the best resaw blade I have used plus the shear force is a great hardened spring steel blade with a very thin kerf which I would save for when I wanted to reduce waste to a minimum with a rare piece of wood. Bottom line both are blades I would actually pay money for...

I do indeed LOVE Laguna guides and they almost always trump everything in reviews and get high kudos for their effectiveness, case in point the most recent Wood magazine. I would say that on a big heavy saw that can tension a wide carbide blade correctly I find guides are not a big issue for resawing since the beam strength is so high the blade doesn't need a lot of help. It does come in very handy with thinner blades and contour cutting. The Laguna is a good deal but if it isn't big enough and you want to spend more the FB600 is a great saw. Again if the Felder costs more than 3,000 now I would get the Agazzani B-24 instead, it is a highly proven Italian saw and even Felder is not going to beat Jesse and Eagle Tool's customer service and support.

Since we are spending your money just move up a weight class and get a MM20 or MM24 you aren't going to beat them in a vertical resaw bandsaw.

PS BTW if you want to take a 900 mile road trip Chris Nolin is selling a cherry LT18 in the classifieds... Colorado is gorgeous in the spring!

[David Kumm]

It may not be relevant but the 600 is the lighter version of the ACM saws sold -I believe currently by felder and in the past by Laguna. The 540,640 etc are the heavier versions that more closely compare with the minimax saws- other than s45. There has been a felder 540 on ebay for some time now. I don't know where the Laguna saws are sourced now. The old bridgewood saws were also the heavier ACM ones. If you are looking to resaw the heavier saws will tension the wide blades much better. The strength of the frame and spring are really big deals here. Buy the strongest saw rather than the largest diameter. Dave

[Wes Grass]

The old 600, yes. The new version is built in house by Felder (with various parts sourced from ACM the best we can tell). The x40 series were/are heavier, and only available with 3 phase motors AKAIK.

[Bruce Page]

The old 600, yes. The new version is built in house by Felder (with various parts sourced from ACM the best we can tell). The x40 series were/are heavier, and only available with 3 phase motors AKAIK.

AKAIK.......? A new one to me.

[Van Huskey]

AKAIK.......? A new one to me.

As far as I know

[Jeff Monson]

PS BTW if you want to take a 900 mile road trip Chris Nolin is selling a cherry LT18 in the classifieds... Colorado is gorgeous in the spring!

Thats the best offer I've gotten yet, anywhere sounds better than here right now! Thanks for the great info. guys, I've tried the Eagle tools website a few times and it says its under construction. I'm not at all familiar with Agazzani bandsaws.

Wes, size comparison, does the FB dwarf the Laguna or is it mainly table size that is noticable?

[Bruce Page]

I'll let Van chime in but Agazzani is top of the line.

[David Kumm]

Are the x00 series frames made in Germany or are they sourced as well? 600 lbs is not real heavy for a 24" saw, although the resaw height being lower allows for less mass in the neck for rigidity. I would discuss that with felder because resaw blades, and particularly lenox carbide blades need at least close to 20000 tension. That requires a pretty beefy saw. I'm not implying the felder won't do it but there is no plan B if the saw you buy won't use the blade you prefer. Agazanni upgraded their saws and springs some time ago to address that issue and minimax (centauro) uses a much heavier frame, albiet their resaw is higher. Dave

[Eric McCune]

I would at least consider the Agazzani and Eagle tools. Jesse most likely has what you need in stock. He will be more than honest about what product meets your needs. In many cases, Jesse down sold me. I just received a b20 and the attention to detail with the shipping crate says a lot. I also wanted to pick it up at the terminal and Jesse called the terminal to make sure they would help me loading it on a trailer. Jesse also fully tests and tunes each saw before shipment. Since he stocks the saw, if there's a problem he can just put it aside and pull a new one from inventory. Agazzani has recently increased resaw capacity by an inch based on feedback from Jesse. I know it's a tough decision. Good luck.

[Van Huskey]

If you are waiting on Eagle tools to finish their website you may be waiting a while...

You can see the full Agazzani line here http://www.agazzani.it/agazzani-gb/bandsaws/bandsaws.html note that the ones imported to the US through Eagle differ a little from the Italian lines.

One thing to understand is all the US imported ACM saws (Agazzani, Laguna and upper level Felder saws) are plucked from the bones of one of the Italian lines some are lighter duty and some are heavier. Apart from Laguna's guides all the saws from ACM are very similar if they come from the same line. The Agazzani B-24 is what I think of as the best value of all the Italian saws. With 23" of throat and near 17" of resaw it is quite capable, it is from a "lighter" line but don't confuse this with inadequate, it is a traditional bandsaw without the 24" of resaw height a modern 24" vertical resaw bandsaw would have (like the MM24, Laguna LT24x24 and the Agazzani B24-24) these saws HAVE to be heavier to resist the forces produces by tensioning a wide blade for resawing 24". Eagle Tools has an unmatched pre-shipment inspection and great customer service and Agazzani is a great saw. FYI Mark Duginski chose the Agazzani and he, well wrote the book on bandsaws, literally. Sam Maloof probably depended on his collection of bandsaws more than any machines in his shop and he had wall to wall Agazzani bandsaws. Again the reality is the Italian saws are all going to be very similar IF you are comparing saws with similar capacities, if a traditional 24" bandsaw (~17" of resaw) is your sweet spot the B-24 is the best priced of the Italians in that range. This is not to say I prefer Agazzani BS across the board which is not true but at its size/price point I think the B-24 stands out. When the Felder 600 was below 3,000 it made a compelling argument but with its price extremely close to the B-24 I would pick the B-24 every day.

[Eric McCune]

If you are waiting on Eagle tools to finish their website you may be waiting a while.

When I met Jesse last month, I teased him about his website. I think a big reason for the poor website is jesse's old school customer service. But I would love to have the business he misses due to the website. There would be a lot more Agazzani users if it were easier to find info.

[David Kumm]

This has been great info about euro saws. I have never heard a bad word about Agazanni. I have an lt 18, an older version from Laguna and it is a good saw but now sitting in storage. Once you get above the $3000 price range a buyer should at least consider used saws, particularly the old cast iron ones. I have an oliver 217 and a Yates snsowflake y20 (hence the storage for the laguna) and can say that as good as the new saws are, a well tuned old one is a step up. Granted, at the end of the day it is all about sawing a board and they all do that, but old is good in the bandsaw world. There have not been alot of technology advances made in spinning a band around two wheels. If the motor, spindle and wheels are good, they last forever. I bring this up because used prices over the past year or so are as low as I have seen them so there are some real bargains out there.

[Steve Rowe]

I will ditto what Van has said. I have a 10 year old LT18 made by ACM which has been a fine saw. I had upgraded the LT18 with ceramic guides right after they were introduced since I never really cared for the standard guides. This past December, I purchased an Agazzani B24 (new style) over the Felder FB600 which was the only other serious contender in my price range. It was a tough decision as at the time, the Felder FB600 was actually a few hundred less than the B24 but am not sure if it still holds true since the Felder was on sale at the time. I had looked at the Felder at the 2010 IWF but had never seen an Agazzani. There were two primary reasons I went with the Agazzani; (1) the smallest blade the Felder would take was 3/8" and the Agazzani was 3/16" and (2) the new style Agazzani B24 had about 1-3/4" greater resaw capacity. The guides are easy to adjust and I see no need to upgrade to ceramic guides so far. I really like my choice and probably would have been equally happy with the Felder. You will spend more for the Agazzani mobility base which is custom made for Eagle by HTC.

Other than resaw capacity, a Baldor motor, and improved table tilting, the LT16HD you are considering is similar to my older LT18. I have both the LT18 and B24 sitting side by side in my shop and the B24 makes the LT18 look like a toy. In a similar setting, I can only imagine the LT16HD would also look like a toy so I really don't think comparing the two saws is an apples to apples comparison. Just decide what is most important to you and choose the saw that best fits your needs as you will likely be happy with either one. Just don't buy less saw than you want or need based on price alone. And, as we all know, nothing is free and if it were, it wouldn't be worth having.

Good luck with your decision.

BTW - the LT18 has sold with absolutely no effort on my part and no advertising.

[Wes Grass]

A bit taller, but it's mostly a width increase. So far I haven't had a need to attach an extension table to the side. The Laguna had one parked there full time ... mainly because it was fairly convenient to leave it there. It would be in the way if I left it on the Felder. The table is twice the size, literally. Turn the Laguna 90° and add another to the side. And almost exactly twice the weight. Takes some effort to elevate it and lock it in place at an angle. An assist of some sort would be nice. The Laguna was light enough that I didn't see it as an issue.

Price was definitely a factor on this, about as much as it being marked 'Felder' and the fact it already has the accessory rails on it. I mod'd the table on the Laguna and made my own rails, and wrestling an 85 lb casting around on a mill to drill and tap (I hate crooked holes) was more than enough effort. Going to a bigger Laguna, which I considered for the guides, would have been that much bigger a job. At the current price my choice might have been harder.

I ran a quick test with a 1/4" blade on it and it all seemed to work out fine. I don't know what reason they have for setting a minimum of 3/8", the guides are the same as any other Euro saw. And I think they're louder than the ceramics.

I'm going to try measuring deflection under blade tension and see what it looks like. Not that I have any reference to compare to ...


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[David Hawxhurst]

I got the fb-600 after talking with Mark Duginske he has a agazzani and a felder in his shop. i was able to go and put my hands on both saws both where very similar. one thing mark mentioned that swayed my decision to by the felder was there are 150 mi from me and eagle is on the other coast some 3000mi or so. mark also mentioned that if he was blind folded and made a cut he wouldn't be able to tell which saw he was using. eagle tools are not the only ones sell agazzani in the US. atwood (or something like that) sells a different version then eagle.

[Dave MacArthur]

Jeff, click the link at the bottom of my signature, "which bandsaw to buy threads". I just updated it, last post today, with links to about 4 threads we've had over the last 3 months on the Felder and Hammer saws vs. Laguna/MM/Agazzani/ACM etc., lots of good info.

[Jim Matthews]

Jim from Westport, MA here.

I also recommend consideration of second hand saws from home users. One caveat, freight classes for these will be 100, and should be moved laid on their spines (per Minimax).
My MM20 was a bargain at $2100, but freight costs consumed ALL of my savings off list prices.

If you can find one within driving distance, hire a piano mover (I kid you not) - they're equipped to handle heavy gear and will be reasonable in price.

*****

Motor size is less important than wheel and frame construction. A good blade that tracks poorly will never cut well...