Joint Facing Rough Lumber

[David Nelson1]

I'm killing myself facing rough lumber. The orange grip pads with the rubber foam just slip and I wind up with starting and stopping marks. Seems like the harder I push down the more it doesn't wanna move. I have played with depth setting etc with no luck. Anyone have a favorite tool they use to move the wood along that works?

I was thinking about removing the rubber and gluing a 1/4 - 3/8 piece of plywood with brads driven thru it. Downside if it ever got loose and hit the cutter........

[Steve Friedman]

#8 Hand Plane

[Ben Abate]

David,

I have a tool that I purchased from Aigner I can't remember the name of it but it has two spikes that come out of the back of it. Then there is a lever that you flip once you have the piece positioned on the wood. You flip the lever and it sticks two more spikes into the top of the board so you can keep it gripped. Like I mentioned it's made by Aigner from Germany.

I usually use a stock feeder on my jointer for any thing that's on the large side of things.....you can't beat using a power feeder. It's the ultimate for jointing.......I find it awkward to joint 8/4 or stock that is wide and thick....A method I use when hand routing on the router table and I use it sometimes jointing is to have a wet rag handy. I wipe my hands on the wet rag and it helps to grip the wood. I would only do this with wide stock but wetting your hands does help to hold the board.

You shouldn't worry about the stop marks anyway....you'll be running thru the planer at some point right? so get it flat and do the rest in the planer....

Ben

[Stephen Cherry]

Also, a little wax on the jointer goes a long way.

[Don Jarvie]

Get some of th padding Rockler sells that is fairly sticky. They sell it for holding wood for a router. You can add it to the orange push pads.

Also, make sure the bed is nice and slick with paste wax. You may need to do it every few days to build up a coat.

I feel your pain. I try to put pressure on the front and push from the rear. Its not easy but a little practice you can find what works. I find that its better with short pieces than long. It helps to move the fence out of the way because you are working the face and don't need it to be square at this point.

Goodluck

[Neil Brooks]

Also, a little wax on the jointer goes a long way.

And a slightly damp pad, on the back of your push pads.

Also, old mouse pads -- typically the bottom side -- seem to have some grip to them.

[Mike Goetzke]

I have been milling my lumber for about 5 years now but still learning.:

1) Like mentioned above paste wax the table.
2) Start by maybe taking off like 0.030".
3) Don't push too hard - I always have to remind myself this. It's easy to bow a board by pushing too hard.
4) Don't run a rough edge against the fence.
5) Start by applying pressure on the infeed bed and then transfer both hands to the outfeed side.

I'm sure I missed others...

[Andrew Joiner]

I use a thin lightweight planer sled on a flat infeed table to flatten faces of stock. It's like a jointer with power feed. Another plus,you don't have to press heavy,long lumber down flat on the jointer tables.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=134633

[Steve Roxberg]

Wax the table.

Sharpen the blades.

[Leo Graywacz]

Make a handle that has a little pc hanging down that will hold and push the back end of the board. I just use my hands.

[Bill Huber]

I agree with some of the stuff that has been said.

You have to wax the top and get it good and smooth. The blades need to be sharp, dull blades will really make you work.
When I use the jointer I use down pressure but not all that much, just what is needed to keep the board flat on the table.
If you use to much down pressure and the board has warp to it, you will flatten it down and will never get the board flat.

[shane lyall]

Wax the table.

Sharpen the blades.
Couldn't have said it better! I keep the jointer so slick the wood feels like it floats over it. I can't do a good job if it isn't in top condition. I use 3 or 4 coats of good 'ol Johnsons and it makes all the differance in the world.

Don't push down any more than you need to keep the stock on the table. As Bill said, you can push the bow out of thin stock if you aren't careful.

My Delta jointer came with a couple of hand paddles that worked great at first. The got a little dust on them and became slick. I used GoJo hand cleaner to clean the rubber and they grip like new. FWIW, I clean the rubber in and outfeed rollers on my planer with it also. I know it sounds crazy but I read somewhere and it works like a charm.

[David Nelson1]

LOL Steve I have no bench yet, that's what I'm building!


#8 Hand Plane

[David Nelson1]

Stephen, Jsut cleaned and waxed all the cast iron a few weeks ago but it can't hurt to do it again



Also, a little wax on the jointer goes a long way.

[David Nelson1]

Lotta good ideas and techniques! I have waxed the jointer, but the blades could use a good edge. I've been reluctant to pull them because I don't have a setting jig. Never got one from the fellow I bought the jointer from.

Any ideas or recommendation for a jig either shop made or manufactured?

[Curt Harms]

I use a push shoe from the table saw. I don't use push sticks, I feel like I don't have enough control. It has a little heel so I can push without the shoe popping up. Like Mike said above, don't push down too hard especially on the infeed side. Push down too hard and you can flatten the bow or twist which will then return once you quit pushing down on it. I just push down hard enough to keep the board on the table and remove the high spots but not enough to force it from where it wants to be. Most of the force is forward not down.

[michael case]

+ 1 for Curt. Take a peek at this link. Most of these are for the TS but there are some for the jointer. Also the "heavy duty" pusher they show would be great for a jointer. Try some of these and maybe use them in conjunction with a the modern pad type on the forward part of the stock - http://www.toolcrib.com/blog/2009/07/14-push-block-plans-11-push-stick-plans-save-your-paws-from-table-saws
(http://www.toolcrib.com/blog/2009/07/14-push-block-plans-11-push-stick-plans-save-your-paws-from-table-saws)

[David Nelson1]

I guess I should have mentioned most of what I will be working with will be in excess of 6 foot. I have roller stand set up to support the extra lenght in on and off the jointer. Right now I'm building a cabinet style bench. I think the longest pieces I need for that are 72ish. So puch sticks and hooks are kinda out of the question.

[Larry Edgerton]

Lotta good ideas and techniques! I have waxed the jointer, but the blades could use a good edge. I've been reluctant to pull them because I don't have a setting jig. Never got one from the fellow I bought the jointer from.

Any ideas or recommendation for a jig either shop made or manufactured?

Wax is fine, but a coat of TopCote spray will make it less work to slide pieces across. I keep a can at the jointer all the time.

If you have a couple of magnets and a pieces of glass you can set your knives. Hold the glass strips down to the outfeed table with the magnets on either side of the cutterhead, adjust until the knife touches the glass on both sides, lock in. To help with the knives touching the glass, rub a film of oil on the glass and it will be easier to see when the knife hits the glass. Costs $5 max for this setup and works great.

Check out the ESTA Disposableade system. You only have to set your knives once, and then turn or replace inserts. I've been using it for years, 5 minute changes are great.

[Larry Edgerton]

I guess I should have mentioned most of what I will be working with will be in excess of 6 foot. I have roller stand set up to support the extra lenght in on and off the jointer. Right now I'm building a cabinet style bench. I think the longest pieces I need for that are 72ish. So puch sticks and hooks are kinda out of the question.

I have never been able to make infeed rollers work for me. If someone can I'm getting old and would like to see how they set them up. I have more mass, but less umph these days.

[Leo Graywacz]

Stephen, Jsut cleaned and waxed all the cast iron a few weeks ago but it can't hurt to do it again

Weeks??? Needs to be done closer to every couple of days. The wax slowly evaporates off the metal surfaces. You can't wax it to much.

[David Nelson1]

Wax is fine, but a coat of TopCote spray will make it less work to slide pieces across. I keep a can at the jointer all the time.

If you have a couple of magnets and a pieces of glass you can set your knives. Hold the glass strips down to the outfeed table with the magnets on either side of the cutterhead, adjust until the knife touches the glass on both sides, lock in. To help with the knives touching the glass, rub a film of oil on the glass and it will be easier to see when the knife hits the glass. Costs $5 max for this setup and works great.



Check out the ESTA Disposableade system. You only have to set your knives once, and then turn or replace inserts. I've been using it for years, 5 minute changes are great.

Good tip with the glass. I like it. I have the capability to sharpen and lap the knives. I'll look @ the ESTA system, but its probaly a non started for me. Thanks!

[Bob Riefer]

I was taught to glue green scotch brite pads (like the ones you use to clean pots and pans) to the bottom of push paddles. They grip wood very nicely and are cheap/easy to replace when they eventually wear out.

[jonathan eagle]

I bet your feed rate is too high. You really only want a lot of downward pressure on the outfeed table. Usually when I face joint, I still have the rough side up. No way to slip on that. Rarely I have to rejoint a face that is already smooth. That is the only time i might feel some slipping.

[Myk Rian]

Wax on the table, sharp knives and Grrrippers.

[John TenEyck]

This may not be for anyone but me, but I have never used push blocks, pads, whatever for face jointing rough lumber. I either use my bare hands or wear gloves if the wood is so rough that it'll give me splinters. I don't know how you can control a 6 foot long, 10" wide, 2" thick board any other way. I religously use the guard so the blades are never exposed when wood is going through. I've never had a problem in 25 years, never anything even close to a close call, nor do I want any.

[Larry Edgerton]

This may not be for anyone but me, but I have never used push blocks, pads, whatever for face jointing rough lumber. I either use my bare hands or wear gloves if the wood is so rough that it'll give me splinters. I don't know how you can control a 6 foot long, 10" wide, 2" thick board any other way. I religously use the guard so the blades are never exposed when wood is going through. I've never had a problem in 25 years, never anything even close to a close call, nor do I want any.

I do the same, but I do position a wet rag where I can reach it to increase my grip on the wood. Wet my hands a bit before each pass.

[Chip Lindley]

I have two old "grout floats" for use at the jointer. They have wood bodies with rubber soles. One has a wooden cleat screwed to the aft edge, protruding below the rubber by about 1/4". The cleat captures the rear board edge to shove it past the cutterhead.

If it is that hard to push stock through your jointer, I suspect your knives are wayy dull. A rusty bed with fresh, sharpened knives will yield better results than really dull knives and all the paste wax Johnson's can sell you!

[Andrew Duncan]

IAnyone have a favorite tool they use to move the wood along that works?

Wax and sharp first and foremost as many have said. I also break one of the first rules I was told about woodworking: never wear gloves. I wear the cotton gloves with little pvc dots all over the front of the hand side when using the planer. My hands don't get splintered up so easily and I'm able to maintain very positive control over the lumber on the machine. So that's my favorite tool for moving the wood.

[John TenEyck]

I do the same, but I do position a wet rag where I can reach it to increase my grip on the wood. Wet my hands a bit before each pass.

Hmm, that would be better than licking or spitting on my fingers, I suppose. Some woods taste pretty good actually but, on the other hand, some don't.

[Larry Edgerton]

Hmm, that would be better than licking or spitting on my fingers, I suppose. Some woods taste pretty good actually but, on the other hand, some don't.

Ha! I came up with that after doing a project with a particularly nasty tasting species!

John, I like my bare hands on the wood, but if I am just putting stock away in large volumes I use motocross gloves. I had to give up dirt bikes a couple of years ago and had all these gloves. Turns out they are the perfect glove, by nature good grip, tight fitting, can still feel the wood/machine, pretty tough, and can be bought relitively cheap on clearance. I am losing my grip [no puns here please] and gloves help me do more work in a day.

[Ronald Blue]

Get a set of these from Peach Tree. They work pretty well. http://www.ptreeusa.com/grr-ripperinfo.htm

[David Nelson1]

I brushed the dust off the blades and they looked fine. Of course, not believing my own aging eyes, I slide a piece of sheet paper over the blades. Sheared it with no effort. 4 or 5 coats of more coats of wax made one heck of a difference. I thought it felt pretty slick to start with, heck I wouldn't want to walk on it now.

[Jim Becker]

This may not be for anyone but me, but I have never used push blocks, pads, whatever for face jointing rough lumber. I either use my bare hands or wear gloves if the wood is so rough that it'll give me splinters. I don't know how you can control a 6 foot long, 10" wide, 2" thick board any other way. I religously use the guard so the blades are never exposed when wood is going through.

Similar for me, too. And...one should not be "pushing down" very hard on the lumber as you don't want to flatten it out with pressure. You want the knives to shave off the high spots.

That said, the closer one gets to a board having a flat face, the harder it gets to move, particularly on a jointer that has a "smooth" surface. That's why many wider machines have a Blanchard type grind on the surfaces as it reduces the natural "suction" that normally occurs between a smooth iron top and a smooth piece of freshly shaved lumber.

[Steve Griffin]

I'm concerned some beginners might be confused by the "don't push down too hard" comments.

You should only being pushing down on the outfeed table, and only where the board has been cut by the knives. Push as down as hard as you like, it won't hurt a thing.

But if the board face or edge was so warped that the knives don't even touch a section, then for that part of the board the proper amount of down pressure is as close zero as you can. There is no need for any down pressure other than what you need to move the board.

Also, I'm not a "multiple light pass" kind of guy. For some reason I get better results with one, or maybe two deep passes.

-Steve

[Jim Matthews]

I'm contemplating similar lengths running across my jointer, and wonder about the relative level of your floor.

Boards this large obey the call of gravity... if the infeed side of the floor (and therefore table) is lower than the outfeed side, you're fighting just to hold the board down.

What does your spirit level say?

jim
wpt, ma

[David Nelson1]

Morning Jim,

I don't think you have much to fret about. I placed the roller stands not to be level with infeed and outfeed tables , but more to counter the sag you mentioned. I set the stand about 1/4-1/2 in. below the feed tables. I was killing myself due to the need of additional layers of wax and excreting way to much down pressure. As mentioned earlier it glides very well now till its flat then its a bit rougher, but still manageable. BTW without the stands the jointer wants to tip over. Not exactly the outcome I was thinking of. If I continue to find myself in this position I need to get a larger machine or go Neander. :eek:





I'm contemplating similar lengths running across my jointer, and wonder about the relative level of your floor.

Boards this large obey the call of gravity... if the infeed side of the floor (and therefore table) is lower than the outfeed side, you're fighting just to hold the board down.

What does your spirit level say?

jim
wpt, ma

[Chris Fournier]

It's tough and dangerous when your jointer can be tipped! I'd highly recommend that you fasten it to the floor somehow; it can be a reversable bolt and anchor type setup. Once your jointer is set up nice and solid you can develop your technique.

The best way to set up knives is with a dial indicator and shop made base indicating off of the outfeed table. I provided a drawing in a previous thread that will be archived. Blades squirm when tightened and the magnet based jigs are useless and a waste of your money. Sharp knives will make your life at the jointer far easier!

Very rarely do I use any push sticks or gripper thingies while jointing, they get in the way and are not easy to manipulate. The jointer is quite safe as long as you don't pass your hands over the cutterhead - walk the board over the jointer with your hands avoiding the cutterhead area. Sounds easy but it can take some practice. On 6' stock I like to get set up at the back of the board with my right hand and use my left hand half way up to push the board down on the table; once I've got a good 12" of board onto the outfeed table I begin the "walk".

I would agree with the poster that didn't really like multiple passes at small settings. If your board has much twist it is all to easy to pass the board over at a different twist each time and you are chasing your tail. What's the right setting then? It depends... Start at 1/16" and experiment.

With the right technique and a properly secured machine it's no big deal to handle 10' to 12' stock on the jointer (well maybe not 16/4!), it just takes time to get there.

[Jerry Olexa]

Waxing the table is VERY important and will help immensely

[ron ogle]

wax, sharp cutters and glue sandpaper to old paddles.

[David Nelson1]

hmmmm sandpaper, imagine that. Good tip!!!

[Russell Sansom]

You've gotten a ton of good advice. Sometimes using an assistant on an awkward board is the prudent thing to do. For long boards it's almost a necessity. I have to admit, I fantasize about a power feeder. How come that inexpensive ( well, sort of... ) yellow lunch box planer has one built in and my jointer doesn't?

I have to strongly second what Chris said: Use a dial indicator for setting knives. Many people get by with other methods, like finding top dead center with a ruler or a magnetic holder. But finding TDC is only half the challenge. It's amazing how much those knives move when you tighten the cave-man-era set screws. You tighten the screw and find that the ruler doesn't catch for the 1/8" of travel it did before you tightened them, but now 1/4". Then you have to loosen the set screws and try again. It can take an hour of fiddling, depending on how much cam action the screws inflict on the knives ( I have heard of people radiusing and polishing the set screw tips to minimize this effect ). In the end there's no feedback to tell you how far they're off. And if you're like me, after an hour any semblance to close is good enough. The DI is the simplest and easiest way to do it by a long shot. And you can see exactly how much cam action each of the...what...15 set screws on an 8" jointer throws the knife off.
I recently ran across a UTUBE video of somebody adjusting his powermatic jointer using a DI. Sorry I don't have a link at my fingertips. It takes only about 30 seconds to see the DI light.

[Peter Quinn]

In the first post you said something like "no matter how hard I push down...". Well, don't push DOWN that hard. You need just enough down pressure to keep things moving forward, and most of that on the out feed as soon as possible. I see guys pushing down like they were trying to rub the wood flat on a stone, but that is not necessary. If the knives are truly sharp and the tables are now waxed like a surf board, check the alignment of the knives with the out feed table. If the out feed table is a little high it can feel like you are pushing the wood up hill which makes for tough going. Another problem I've seen is having one or two knives lower then the others sn you don't really have three doing the cutting. If one knife is even a bit proud or low, or if they weren't jointed when sharpened so the middles don't really cut it can make for very hard jointing.

[David Nelson1]

Morning Peter, I have to agree with everyting you have mentioned. The machine is sharp and set up correctly, checked with a dial indicator. I feel that a majority of my problem was forgetting the basic technique and my lack of experience. I put a few more coats of wax down Friday evening and Saturday morning. It made a world of difference. Jointed a more appropiate length board, that effort went without a hitch. Even the 8 footers where 100% easier to joint. Thanks for the heads up.

[Jim Matthews]

I'm more frequently jointing small boards on my portable.

Larger stuff can apply significant force and induce flex in stamped steel tables.

I long for one of those "Aircraft carrier" 20" jointers I see at the Woodworking schools, but they take up more space (plus the cash requirement) than my car.

I think that once your jointer is bolted down, a prop under each table might help.
Given that you're hogging off maybe 1/16" max, adding another 1/32" from table flex or other misalignment could tax your motor beyond capacity.

If this thing isn't bolted down, it will tip over, and it will happen when there's no one to catch your best board.
DAMHIKT

[Jerry Olexa]

Another simple thought: rough cut your lumber into smallest pieces possible (near what u need for your project)...Smaller boards joint much easier..:)

[Brent Ring]

I have a 1/4 " ledge off the back of one of my push blocks. Not sure of your bench design, but the middle boards do not have to be perfect, if they are sandwiched. Wax, Wax, Sharp knives, wax, and more wax. Did I say wax? :)

[BOB OLINGER]

Ditto to the shoe style push sticks. I made one from a scrap of 3/4" plywood; use it for both the table saw and jointer.

[David Nelson1]

Boards that where a problem where in excess of 80 " but less than 96". I'm not taking the boards till they are 100% flat on the jointer, just enough that they will go through the planer and flatten the top side then flip to clean up the back a bit more.

[David Nelson1]

Did I miss something?? Quite a few folks talking about push sticks. I get it if the board is well within your arm span. If it's not then what are ya'll doing? Oh and by the way it would seem to me if you where using a push stick when your left hand runs outta room, how are you keeping a slight downward pressure on the outfeed side. I guess dragging your hand backwards would work..... I don't know seems more trouble than what its worth. I tried this the other day and didn't much care for it. Just my 2 cents