Trouble with classified ad item - what is considered "like new"

[Kevin Fitzsimons]

I purchased a BCTW adjustable square from a fellow who advertised the item "as new", in the original box. In the photo in his post, I noticed there was corrosion on the handle and rivet. I contacted him about it and he said he rubbed it out and it was as new. When I received the item, it was worse on the opposite side than the one which was pictured. That side also had initials engraved into it. I contacted him again just to say he should be more accurate in his descriptions. His reply was very defensive and told me he couldn't rub it out (contrary to what he said before shipping) because of his arthritis and to return the item and he would not sell to me again. He chastised me for posting it in the ad thread instead of a PM. I told him I did it so others would be aware of the issue. I haven't seen any posts from him since. I didn't return the square as I can still use it and I was only trying to get him to be more accurate in his descriptions. Every purchase I've made on SMC has been fine up to now. Anyone else had this issue? How picky are you about used goods? Attached is a picture of the square I purchased.188000

[JohnT Fitzgerald]

Kevin - that's a tough one. I would not think twice about buying from SMC...but I would also not think twice about checking the item, nor would I hesitate to give feedback.

[glenn bradley]

This person has sold many items here and I believe most sales were quite satisfactory. His Estate Sale may have gone on a bit too long as I believe he is no longer posting new items here. My experience was good with him but, my item was in the original packaging. I should state that I have been very hard to please and am pretty critical since my dad was taken for almost $400 by some loser. I would clean up the item and enjoy it or return it as you see fit. It should clean up nicely.

[Kevin Fitzsimons]

Yes, that's the fellow. I didn't mean to tick him off. I hope if he still has items to sell he lists them on SMC even if he won't let me purchase them. I told him I'm a user not a collector, so I will keep and use the items. Accurate descriptions are vital to the integrity of the seller and the potential buyers appreciate it.

[glenn bradley]

Accurate descriptions are vital to the integrity of the seller and the potential buyers appreciate it.

I agree and meant to say so but, I wandered off point. Sorry about that. Accurate descriptions of our interactions with others on here are indeed vital to the quality level of the forum and I appreciate your comments. Same goes for interactions with commercial makers/sellers.

[Bruce Page]

I have only had one instance where I wasn’t totally thrilled with a Creek purchase and it was a packaging issue. The item I bought came in its own wooden box. The seller simply put the box into one of those bubble wrap bags and mailed it. Needless to say the wooden box was beat up pretty badly when I got it but the item inside was fine.

In your case, I would be a little miffed too.

[Dan Hintz]

Kevin,

You did exactly what I would have done. The only way you can claim an item as "like new" is if it looks as if it just came out of the box from the store. Initials carved into it, surface rust (whether it can be removed or not is irrelevant), etc. all mean it is not "like new". If he removed the surface rust, sanded out the initials so you couldn't tell they were ever there... then fine, I would consider that "like new".

But he didn't. So it's not. And he knew it, and it's for that reason I would have posted about the issue in the open.

Don't think twice about what you did...

[Ron Conlon]

Sorry, but in lieu of being able to inspect the item in person, the description and picture are the only clues to judge if a given price is fair. Since when does carving your initials in something mean that the item is in "as new" condition?

[Jeff Monson]

When someone advertises "like new" that is what I expect it to be. He should have stated it was in good condition. I would have been a little ticked also, people use the term a little too loose when selling items.

[Jerome Hanby]

Well description aside, only posting a picture of the "good" side is intentionally misleading. Only posting a picture of the "bad" side would be fine.

[Derek Gilmer]

Having seen the thread in question but not knowing if any pms went on behind it I'll offer my opinion. I'd have started in PMs and if the seller was unresponsive then posted publicly about it. Especially given the volume of items he sold I'd be less concerned about one that didn't meet expectations. The rest of the buyers seemed happy with it.

That said most of the items were sold at a pretty high price imho because of their like new status. I'd have been pretty picky and quick to return them at those prices.

[Joe Angrisani]

I have bought and sold quite a bit of photographic equipment over the years to support that "habit" (a single lens can dwarf the price of a deluxe 17" bandsaw - or even one of those fancy Italian saws). You run into description problems a lot. But there's no Ifs, Ands or Buts when a Seller chooses to use the words Like New. "Like New" should be like new, period. To even consider it on an item with engravings rings of deception.

I used this scale to rank camera gear.
NEW..........Item is new, has never been used, and is complete with box and original papers
LIKE NEW........Item appears new and appears to have never been used, but no box or papers
EXCELLENT PLUS......Very light wear upon CLOSE inspection, but pretty close to new.
EXCELLENT......Some light wear but still very clean. (This is the "like new" many describe)
GOOD.....Has wear but nothing that affects use. Engraved initials drop items into this rating.
POOR......Has wear that will show itself in use and have an effect on the results.

I think it shows poor form that the Seller made excuses. Especially since there was PM communication before shipping. I think it also shows poor form that he hasn't joined this discussion, given the volume of items he posted for sale.

[Derek Gilmer]

I think it shows poor form that the Seller made excuses. Especially since there was PM communication before shipping. I think it also shows poor form that he hasn't joined this discussion, given the volume of items he posted for sale.
Pretty sure he left SMC all together when he was asked to quit selling items.

[John Coloccia]

I don't think you did anything wrong, Kevin.

[Kevin Fitzsimons]

He was NOT asked, as far as I know, to stop selling items. In fact, I encouraged him to keep selling his items as they were very good ww tools. He just stated to me he would not sell any more TO ME. Which is fine, but I don't want others to miss out. They were priced at the upper end of pre-owned tools, but they were nice tools and he did come down if there were no offers. If my purchase was for a lot more money, I would have disputed the price. My only beef was the description not being accurate and the item clearly not "as new" as advertised. If he has more items, I hope he lists them here. (And I hope he'd reconsider selling to me again) No hard feelings.

[Joe Angrisani]

Pretty sure he left SMC all together when he was asked to quit selling items.

The "little blue dot" by his name indicated he was on SMC 30 minutes ago.

[Derek Gilmer]

Lol, too much drama in the morning for my tastes :)

Heading back to the woodworking parts good luck with whatever goes on here.

[Joe Angrisani]

Lol, too much drama in the morning for my tastes :)

Drama. Accountability. Such a fine line..... :)

[Kent A Bathurst]

Drama. Accountability. Such a fine line..... :)

Yeah...Seemed to me the gentleman in question was completely new to WW tools - pressed into service - some nuances he perhaps did not understand, and certainly did not understand the internalized community discipline here. Those are things I guess I can understand. Having said that, no reason to get "shirty" with the OP. If the buyer ain't happy, it's "no deal" or it's "how can I make it right" - common courtesy.

[Keith Outten]

There were two people who asked and received permission to use our Classified Forum to sell items that were related to estate sales. I approved both requests.

The volume of items involved in both cases exceeded what I had envisioned when permission was granted so I reversed my decision. There were lots of complaints from Members here concerning our Classified Forum becoming over-run with ads from the estate sales, this was the primary reason that I changed our policy not to allow any estate sale activity.

There are numerous web sites where people can sell their wares on the Internet. It was decided long ago by the majority here that they did not want any commercial sales in our Classified Forum and we agreed to make every effort to keep posts and threads woodworker to woodworker. If an amateur woodworker receives a volume of tools, equipment or lumber that we consider to be of a commercial level our Classifieds will not be used as a point of sale.

In a nutshell the majority of this Community don't want to feel that they are competing with a commercial business here.
.

[glenn bradley]

I feel Keith made the right decision here. The list of items in some cases seemed quite long(?).

[JohnT Fitzgerald]

I feel Keith made the right decision here. The list of items in some cases seemed quite long(?).

I back Keith 100% on this one. If it was someone who otherwise contributed to SMC, perhaps exceptions would be a good idea, but that person posted nothing but classifieds to sell stuff.

[Jim Koepke]

Just my opinion, but if I am selling an item I want to describe it as accurately as possible.

I do not want the buyer to have any surprises unless they are surprised by the item being better than they expected.

If an item has been refinished and looks like it just came out of the factory (fat chance) it is still just repainted and cleaned up, it is not like new.

I have sold items here and on ebay. I would be willing to take back any item if a buyer felt they were mislead about the quality or usability of anything I sold them.

My opinion is that the item being listed as "like new" was a misrepresentation. Even the blemished items that Bridge City sells are in better cosmetic condition.

jtk

[George Clark]

Kevin,

For me, the tarnish is a non issue, all uncoated brass will tarnish in time and it cleans up easily. The initials are another story, and I agree they should have been revealed it the original for sale post. However, we all make mistakes, perhaps he overlooked them, perhaps not, it makes no difference; he offered you your money back. At that point what more could he do?
George

[Bruce Page]

OK folks, I think this thread has run its course.

[Chris Padilla]

Not yet, Bruce...I just need to make a post here. :)