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Charles McKinley
03-22-2011, 11:40 PM
Hi All,

Anyone made cement countertops? I'm looking for some guidance, books, etc. I'm moving to the house I grew up in and SWMBO has decreed that the kitchen is not acceptable. I really don't know why I do 90+% of the cooking and baking.:rolleyes:

Can it be done cheaper than laminate? I really don't want to do laminate if I can avoid it and I know soild surface/stone is out of the budget.

Thanks

Jamie Buxton
03-23-2011, 12:52 AM
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?156993-Kitchen-refacing-and-concrete-countertops-done&highlight=concrete

Rich Engelhardt
03-23-2011, 7:05 AM
Can it be done cheaper than laminate? I really don't want to do laminate if I can avoid it and I know soild surface/stone is out of the budget.

No - laminate runs ~ 1/2 to 2/3 less per square foot.
Laminate can run between $25 and $50 per sq. ft.
1.5" Concrete can run between $65 and $135 - depending on a bunch of variables.
Solid surface and granite start around $100 and go up from there to the sky is the limit.


I'm moving to the house I grew up in What size are we talking here?
Giant "farm style" or 1950's "galley"?

I ask because granite and/or some other real stone may actually be the cheaper of the three (concrete, solid surface, real stone).

Visit some of the stone countertop places. All of them will have remnants which they sell at a huge discount.
My wife hates the look otherwise I'd have put in real stone in our simple & small kitchen.

John Baranowski
03-23-2011, 9:22 AM
No - laminate runs ~ 1/2 to 2/3 less per square foot.
Laminate can run between $25 and $50 per sq. ft.
1.5" Concrete can run between $65 and $135 - depending on a bunch of variables.
Solid surface and granite start around $100 and go up from there to the sky is the limit.
If these are the prices in your area, you are getting ripped off. Granite around here starts at ~$40/sq ft, and goes up from there. You can get your own laminate at the BORG for somewhere around $10/sq ft. If price is a factor, I say go get some laminate at HD and be done with it. It is easy to install, and a good change. Concrete can be reasonable, if you DIY it, but it is a LOT of work from what I have seen. I have not laid concrete counters fwiw, so take my advice accordingly.

Greg Peterson
03-23-2011, 10:12 AM
John, I believe Rich was quoting the general cost for a contractor to install a complete counter top, not the cost of one of the materials in the project.

Kevin Groenke
03-23-2011, 12:48 PM
I've done a few, once you get the basics down they're really pretty easy to make, don't expect perfection the first time 'round. Less expensive than laminate IF you don't need to buy new tools, do all the work yourself and can find salvage material for the formwork. If all you're buying is bagged concrete, rebar/mesh they can be less than $5/sqft.... if you're using colors, additives, etc. it gets more expensive. Melamine works great for forms, any smooth material with heat-shink window film applied leaves a glass-like finish. Rounding over corners is challanging. Something to shake the air out is very helpful (could be a concrete vibrator, but an old 1/3rd sheet orbital sander works too). I've cast all the counter's I've done upside down as I've never been happy with he finish I've been able to attain by floating out the top. Make a bunch of 12"-18" square samples to get the feel for it, before you attempt the real thing. If you're casting upside down, don't make individual pieces larger than you can handle.

The only book I've needed is Concrete Countertops by Fu-Tung Cheng (http://www.amazon.com/Concrete-Countertops-Design-Finishes-Kitchen/dp/tags-on-product/1561584843). Great information there and all over the web.

-kg

Dave Ogren
03-23-2011, 1:22 PM
Why concrete ?? If it is a money issue, what about granite tiles 12" square. A lot of times they are $3 a square foot. 3/4" plywood, cement board, and tiles are pretty economical. even ceramic tile would be substantial and even more economical like $.79 per square foot. Good Luck,

Dave

Kevin Groenke
03-23-2011, 9:54 PM
There are a few things you can do with concrete that you can't do with 1/4" of granite or ceramic tiles. Undermount or farmhouse sinks are tough for example... and rimming sinks are ugly.



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Mike Cutler
03-24-2011, 9:07 AM
Kevin

That's some nice work there.

Charles
Granite countertops can cost a lot, or a lot less, depending on how much work you're willing to do. I've done a couple of granite tops now and I just cut out the middleman,and go straight to the stone cutter. I walk through the yard and select from the remnants, or wait for a full size sheet to have enough customers for the cut. You don't want to pay for a full sheet which can drive the price out of sight.
I make all my own full size templates and drawings with all of the math, and directions written on them for the cutter.

Joe Angrisani
03-24-2011, 9:58 AM
Why concrete ?? If it is a money issue, what about granite tiles 12" square. A lot of times they are $3 a square foot......

Grout lines.....food residue....gross and unhealthy at any price. I gotta put tiled countertops right up there with carpeted bathrooms. Bad ideas. :)

Dave Bonde
03-24-2011, 11:29 AM
I made concrete counters for my house 2 years ago. The way I did mine no they are not cheaper then laminate. I bought my materials from Chen Concrete (they are not cheap) and I also bought a grinder and diamond pads off ebay. I choose concrete because I wanted to design and make my own counters and concrete fits into my style. I also made a matching hearth for my fireplace. Mine were pretty involved for a first try I have a 3'X5' island with corners that jet out, sink with built in plate drain and curved fireplace hearth. I made about 40 linear feet of counter plus island. If I did mine over I would make 2 changes I would not use Chen brand sealer I would look for another brand I had trouble with streaks and Chen was no help, and I would research mixing my own color water reducer ... the mix from Chen worked fine but was expensive. My wife did not want the counters to look to thick so I made mine 1 1/2". I was a little nervous about that but it was not a problem and we both like the look. I bought the DVD from Chen that I think is really good at explaining the process - If you want to borrow it send me a PM and I will send it to you to watch. The process is labor intensive but not that hard. I am by no means an expert and ended up with good results. Good luck Dave

Harry Hagan
03-24-2011, 11:34 AM
I’ve used a Sawzall without the blade inserted to vibrate small concrete forms. Does a great job of getting the air out and might work on counter top forms too.

Charles McKinley
03-25-2011, 1:15 AM
Thank you for the information.

The current kitchen is 1950 galley about 8 by 14. I want to move it to the "big livingroom" 14x40 to create an open kitchen/living room.

Kevin: Very nice work!
Why concrete? I want to do an Island like Kevin's with the cooktop and sink. I think I want it wider to sit at on the other side. I want an undermount sink with the built in plate drain or go the industrial route and go big (used stainless) sink with a plate drain.

Mike: That is an idea that I hadn't thought of. I'm not sure where the nearest stone yard is from here.

Dave Thank you for the offer.

I thought I would make a garden potting bench as a practice piece. I can probably find all the tools I need around the farm. My brothers and I can can do all of the labor and I have lumber to make the forms. I can get the steel for scrap price or less.

More thought and ideas? Pics?

Kevin Groenke
03-25-2011, 7:42 AM
Kevin

That's some nice work there.


I wish it was mine, but these are just some examples pulled off of google images.

-kg

Eric DeSilva
03-25-2011, 7:53 AM
I'll second Fu-Tung Cheng's book--I haven't tried a concrete countertop, but it is worth reading just to see how far he takes casting concrete. I had concrete countertops in my last kitchen and really liked them. Expect them to patina. But if you are a baker, they have the same kind of temperature retention properties as solid stone, so they are great to work on.

John Baranowski
03-25-2011, 1:17 PM
John, I believe Rich was quoting the general cost for a contractor to install a complete counter top, not the cost of one of the materials in the project.
As was I. We had granite installed by a pro last year for $42/sq ft. The higher priced granites were still in the $60-75 range, with some outliers around $100. to stay that granite starts at $100 would be a bit scary. Keep in mind, this is going straight to a granite shop, not through a GC on a remodel job with their markup.

Rich Engelhardt
03-26-2011, 7:38 AM
John,
The figures I quoted above are pretty much middle of the road for granite in my area.
That's for design and install.
Low end, simple edge can be had for as little as - hang on let me check - yep they are still under $30.00 (Direct Import @ $29.99 sq ft.).

"Nice stuff" w/an ogee profile - whole different story...

Which reminds me. I have to make a run soon to see about some cutouts/remnants. My wife wants me to make a roll around cart for the kitchen.

Mike Cutler
03-26-2011, 8:04 AM
Grout lines.....food residue....gross and unhealthy at any price. I gotta put tiled countertops right up there with carpeted bathrooms. Bad ideas. :)

Joe
I've done a fair bit of tiling and always tell myself that I'll never do it again because of the amount of work involved. ( It's a lot of work!)
I'd still tile a counter top, but the product selection has to be closely considered,probably not with granite though due to other concerns such as heat from pans and cracking due to incidental contact. Definitely epoxy grouts and an epoxy sealer over the granite for exactly the reasons you mention. It can be done an done well, but it has to be done right.

greg lindsey
03-26-2011, 10:46 AM
I guess it depends on the location, because I had granite installed / w undersinks for $25sf, Kitchen, three and bathrooms and wetbar for $4000 and with a drop pc they made me a nice cutting block top. Have you looked at Silestone, the local HD had a deal on it for $27sf installed, nice stuff with lots of color choices and with a contractors license even a little cheaper direct from Silestone. Granite contractor was located through craigslist, they did an awesome job, even though they broke the longest pc for the kitchen carrying it in, they promply got a new one.